Public Address | Cafe | Random Play: The writing on the Wall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Matt Jeffs https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5699#post5699 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5699#post5699 Tue, 16 Jan 2007 02:27:47 +1300 Neil Morrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5692#post5692 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5692#post5692 It's a bit hard to see how Iran is being "helpful". They're determined to destroy Israel, fund Hezbollah and arm the very nastiest of the Shiite militias.

I'm not sure why disagreeing with the US should lead to romanticizing a government that hangs gays and women wh stand up against…

]]> Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:20:57 +1300 Alex Coleman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5681#post5681 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5681#post5681

I think Iraq could become an 'Islamic threat". Sure, it wasn't before the US led invasion, but that was only because "Islamists" had a solid base elsewhere; Pakistan, Afghanistan. Iran too, but they would never admit to it after the 'for us or against us' threat from Bush.

I think…

]]> Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:52:20 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5654#post5654 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5654#post5654

Obviously you are trying to be confrontational to suggest invading all Islamic countries.

Trouble is, there's a lot of chatter at the moment that suggests the White House is gearing up for a crack at both Syria and Iran.

]]> Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:25:55 +1300 Danyl Mclauchlan https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5652#post5652 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5652#post5652 Meanwhile . . .

__An Iraqi army brigade based in the northern Kurdish region is undergoing intensive training in urban combat and will be dispatched to Baghdad as part of a new joint U.S.-Iraqi security drive in the sprawling and violence-ridden city, the commander said Saturday. The brigade is one…

]]> Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:13:40 +1300 Andrew Smith https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5651#post5651 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5651#post5651 Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:59:33 +1300 Neil Morrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5649#post5649 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5649#post5649 Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:55:30 +1300 Alex Coleman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5643#post5643 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5643#post5643 Neil,
I will be surprised if Maliki attacks Sadr. Everything he has done up until now has indicated that he is Sadr's man. I suspect that if there is a push against Shia militia's it will be against SCIRI, who have been on the back foot against Sadr for a…

]]> Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:18:35 +1300 Neil Morrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5641#post5641 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5641#post5641 I'm not sure what I think about what the US should be doing now but this Guardian article is another indication of how some Sunnis aren't that keen to see the US out too soon –

'The jihad now is against the Shias, not the Americans

These are stories…

]]> Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:08:53 +1300 Alex Coleman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5640#post5640 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5640#post5640 Weston, never apologise. Firstly this is the internet and it's simply not done, and secondly you were providing good linky info.

It's certainly a complicated situation and I have no idea what the solution in Iraq will be, it's not going to be a military one unless the question is…

]]> Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:16:45 +1300 WH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5639#post5639 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5639#post5639 I apologise for making so many posts here, but I feel obliged to rebalance what I said earlier. This is not as straightforward as I suggested.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/11/AR2007011101572.html
A jointly set date [for US withdrawal] would facilitate an effort to engage all of Iraq's neighbors in a serious discussion about regional…

]]> Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:34:25 +1300 dylan https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5628#post5628 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5628#post5628

It's not hard to find some clown declaring that Europe will be under sharia law in 15 years, even though many (most?) of the Muslims they so eagerly count in the EU are from central and east European countries with completely different traditions.

First of all, in many European countries…

]]> Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:32:22 +1300 slarty https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5626#post5626 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5626#post5626 I have to agree that the real issue is, "What is the alternative?".

If the US pulls out now, the situation is ripe for a brief war where Iran takes large chunks of Iraq. Personally, were this to be combined with a unification of Kurdish territory, I suspect it might…

]]> Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:18:11 +1300 WH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5623#post5623 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5623#post5623 Brief expert comment here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1988741,00.html

Max Boot, senior fellow for national security studies at the US Council on Foreign Relations

"Will the troop surge work? Beats me. But does anyone have a better idea? Pulling out now could turn Iraq into a Rwanda-style genocidal civil war. My sense is that…

]]> Sat, 13 Jan 2007 01:19:20 +1300 Alex Coleman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5621#post5621 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5621#post5621 that religion cannot have a moral basis, then I guess you would see an existential threat to the west from political Islam. You'd also… ]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:22:29 +1300 WH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5620#post5620 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5620#post5620 Bush's mistakes cannot be undone, they can now only be mitigated.
From what little I understand from media reports, there are two options: withdraw and leave Iraq's civilian population to its fate, or try to establish a functioning Iraqi government, army and police force.

Is there a better way?

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:10:05 +1300 rodgerd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5619#post5619 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5619#post5619

This is what strikes me about the Islamophobes: they don't have much faith in the knowledge and values that have got us this far.

Well, that's hardly surprisingly, considering the frankly breathtaking ignorance on display in thread by same. Only someone drunk on idiology, ignorance, and/or stupidity could imagine that…

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:48:47 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5616#post5616 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5616#post5616 As for them out breeding us in the west, you seem to think that either Islam is a biological phenomenum, like a race, or that their ideas are so obviously more attreactive than ours that Muslims who have been in the west for long enough to become the majority will… ]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:51:18 +1300 dylan https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5615#post5615 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5615#post5615 Not sure what the american's should do about the war in Iraq now... seems a mess either way. But the comparison with Vietnam is interesting. Here's some more food for thought...

link

I guess my summary take on the comparison with Vietnam is...
While we must learn from history we…

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:02:33 +1300 Alex Coleman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5614#post5614 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5614#post5614 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:57:23 +1300 Neil Morrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5613#post5613 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5613#post5613

How many minds might have the trillion dollars Iraq will eventually cost have swayed if the money had gone into liberal education and local business development?

I don't know if things work like that. Clinton spent a lot of money protecting Bosnian Muslims from Christian extremists and meanwhile bin Laden…

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:15:03 +1300 Juha Saarinen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5612#post5612 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5612#post5612 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:07:45 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5610#post5610 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5610#post5610

I have yet to hear a good argument about how to deal with the Islamic threat from the Left, or don't they think it exists?

How about starting by not making things worse? What do you think has become of women's rights in Iraq since 2003? How many suicide bombings…

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:36:14 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5609#post5609 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5609#post5609

I have yet to hear a good argument about how to deal with the Islamic threat from the Left, or don't they think it exists?

Invade Nigeria, Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt and anywhere else which has a lot of Muslims, and a government that is on "our" side when required, but…

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:09:18 +1300 Lyndon Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5592#post5592 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5592#post5592 [sorry but I'm not looking up references today]

I believe late last year it emerged that, before the invasion, the had been a war game about what would be needed to achieve a stable Iraq after an invasion.

As I recall, lots and lots and lots of troops were not…

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:32:35 +1300 WH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5589#post5589 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5589#post5589 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:18:18 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5584#post5584 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5584#post5584 Here here!

I was struck by the part of the 3 news item when John Howard commented on it. Here's part of the transcript from his press conference:

"And we all should understand what is at stake: an American or western defeat in Iraq will be an unbelievable boost to…

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:23:45 +1300 Andrew Smith https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5582#post5582 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5582#post5582 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:16:06 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5581#post5581 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/random-play-the-writing-on-the-wall/?p=5581#post5581 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:16:06 +1300