I'm not sure if that has to do with the original source material as compared to the TV shows

David Simon had a pretty good idea of what was going on on 'the other side' when he was writing The Wire. He spent a year hanging around and talking to…

I'd be interested to hear what people think of it after they've seen it

OK, since you asked:

I enjoyed it, but was able to use it as a companion piece to the book, which I read a month or so beforehand. The book and the miniseries complement each other…

Is that any good Graeme?

Entirely watchable, though as Gio says there's some things about the production that have dated. But I guess you could say that about anything that's been around for more than five minutes.

One way to put it is that Homicide at its best stretches the…

I haven't seen every episode yet, but Homicide: Life on the Street seems very cop-centric (as I imagine "Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets" was as well).

Is that any good Graeme? I read a review which said it was at least as good as the Wire, but the…

Yes, but does Rock of Love Bus have Wendell Pierce in it?

I don't know about anyone else, but you think Brett Michaels' excremental taste in women might be a sign of repressed homosexuality? If nothing else, Brett taking a ride on the Cock of Love shortbus would be a…

Perhaps the reporter that spent a year with the Baltimore Police provided a lot more on the criminals etc?

I haven't seen every episode yet, but Homicide: Life on the Street seems very cop-centric (as I imagine "Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets" was as well).

Yes, but does Rock of Love Bus have Wendell Pierce in it?

The Bunk would have driven the Rock of Love Bus.

I thought [Generation Kill] didn't do some of the obvious things

I thought it was eventually not a success, since they were unable to use THE most obvious dramatic device – which really would've given it resonance – because it was based on a true story.

Yeah. I'm not sure if that has to do with the original source material as compared to the TV shows – I haven't read the originals

It's faithful to the originals. But hey, they chose their source. They could just as easily have chosen a different one, or integrated it…

That last thing you said – that's the crux of it I think. "More difficult" is not an excuse I find especially compelling.

Yeah. I'm not sure if that has to do with the original source material as compared to the TV shows – I haven't read the originals. But…

I thought the behaviour of the unit commander looking for glorious missions for his troops, the incompetent officer who went crazy at the first sign of trouble, and the attitude and actions of the ordinary soldiers drew on similar themes to the wire.

It didn't…

We'll agree to disagree, but nice to see TVNZ can always find a slot for glossy war-porn.

I think Generation Kill is as much glossy war porn as The Wire is glossy police porn.

we might just see Treme before 2013

My great-auntie in America sent me a VHS of this. I can recommend it.

Just saw an advert for the very good Generation Kill miniseries, by the makers of The Wire. Coming soon. Well worth watching.

We'll agree to disagree, but nice to see TVNZ can always find a slot for glossy war-porn. And at this rate, we might just see Treme before 2013...

Just saw an advert for the very good Generation Kill miniseries, by the makers of The Wire. Coming soon. Well worth watching.

Definitely.

And as I noted here, the coming soon bit is the slot The Pacific currently occupies.

Yes many areas are currently fucked, but the fucked is defuckable. The Chinese seem way ahead of New Zealand in term…

Fantastic! Plus anything that helps erase the memory of the Giorgio Moroder/Queen version has to be a good thing.

To give (a little) credit where it's, at least Love To Love You Baby exposed a new audience to the idea that Ridley Scott only steals from the very best. :)

Yes ,an interesting story here. They appeared to be moldering in a back room at the Archive--potentially turning into nitrate soup--until a visiting American archivist chanced upon them.

Oh, I love stories like that. The Film Archive also played a part in the gradual restoration of Metropolis [[http://www.kino.com/metropolis|as close to…

And my undies are made in China, sadly. I will have to hunt down NZ made ones, or at a stretch, Aussie made.

That should be a rule in the Undie 500. Down under undies™ only.

[coat]

And my undies are made in China,…

I wont…

China has fucked huge amounts of that country's environment and that is the matter that will destroy current government.

No, actually, we did.

The computer you are reading this on either was made in China or has components made in China. We demand these products for our lives, along with…

Yes, an interesting story here.

Chech out the slideshow.

A late silent feature directed by John Ford, a short comedy directed by Mabel Normand, a period drama starring Clara Bow and a group of early one-reel westerns are among a trove of long-lost American films recently found in the New Zealand Film Archive.

Oo! If this is, as it appears, instead of Russell T writing a separate American version of the show, that in itself gives it a big head start in the optimism stakes.

Well, after the complete cluster-fuck gang bang Fox made of Dollhouse and Sarah Connor Chronicles, I'm downright ecstatic…

Now with this announcement , put me down as geek, intrigued (and cautiously optimistic):

Oo! If this is, as it appears, instead of Russell T writing a separate American version of the show, that in itself gives it a big head start in the optimism stakes.

BBC Cymru Wales, BBC Worldwide and US premium entertainment network Starz Entertainment have today announced a three-way co-production partnership that will develop a new series of the hit BBC sci-fi drama Torchwood. BBC Worldwide will also…

I see it differently.

Yes, and so do a few other people, many of whom live in China.

But also this article from 2009 indicates China's environmental malaise is not quite as bad as Western media would have us believe. Particularly if sourced from the US, as their house ain't…

An Emperor of a republic is a non sequitur – it is illogical.

And that'd never happen in real life. I mean, where are you going to find a one-party dictatorship with hereditary leadership called The People's Democratic Republic of something?

China has fucked huge amounts of that country's environment and that is the matter that will destroy current government.

I see it differently.

An Emperor of a republic is a non sequitur – it is illogical.

Well... you could argue that the Centauri aren't that big on logic. It's a nominal constitutional monarchy — patriarchal, enforces a strict social and class hierarchy, obsessed with tradition, its government not "democratic" or "republican" in any…

An Emperor of a republic is a non sequitur – it is illogical.

Probably not the best example

Probably is the best example from my experience, despite the flaws. Most attempts are all over the place. For any series: tv, movie, book, comic, whatever, where time advances in a continuous fashion, the authors start with "leaping tall buildings in a single bound" and…

Y'all should go watch B5. That's how you write a multi-season story arc

Probably not the best example — the last season was a bit of a mess, because it was assumed (for all kinds of fairly rational reasons) that the show was going to be cancelled at the end…

Guy sucked into the engine? Yes, welcome to afterlife for souls not ready to depart #1 (that guy was ready to leave after all).…

Jeepers. Could they not just hand it to the pilot?

I hear they're all alcoholics these days. Can't trust them with anything important.

When filming they hand-delivered daily rushes overnight to Los Angeles. That's one guy whose job is to travel daily between LA and Hawai'i, with daily return plane tickets on top.

Jeepers. Could they not just hand it to the pilot?

Seeing as Ben could survive in the cold for as long as it took to turn the wheel, it doesn't seem like much of a problem for, say, horses wearing coats.

I don't buy any argument that says animals were supposed to turn the wheel. Half the wheel was stuck…

Having said that, Claire's crazy hair this last season: Awesome. (I'd have gone nuts too, if my hair looked like that.)

Point granted, but I have a feeling anyone working for the BBC in the 70's would have bolted for Rio with the kind of money ABC must have spent…

"Continuity is a big issue on television and we didn't have the time or money to be wasting hours every day on cosmetic dirt and 'realistically' ratty wigs."

Having said that, Claire's crazy hair this last season: Awesome. (I'd have gone nuts too, if my hair looked like that.)

She felt that it was unrealistic Kate's hair could be so shiny and soft-looking. I felt that being willing to suspend belief that there'd been a polar bear on a tropical island, but not that someone on the plane had a secret cache of conditioner, was slightly ridiculous.

I remember…

(*In hindsight, I can't believe I'm arguing with someone over whether it makes more sense for genetically modified polar bears, reindeer or horses with coats on to turn a wheal on a magic Island.)

I remember, back in the halcyon days, when we were all saying "what the *&^%? I don't…

(*In hindsight, I can't believe I'm arguing with someone over whether it makes more sense for genetically modified polar bears, reindeer or horses with coats on to turn a wheal on a magic Island.)

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown. :)

If your concern in such a series is over tightly realistic explanations, then it's a fair enough grip, I guess.* For me, I don't particularly…

What animal would have been “natural”, given the situation described to you?

Here's a good starting place for choosing a suitable beast of burden.

Seeing as Ben could survive in the cold for as long as it took to turn the wheel, it doesn't seem like much of a problem…

Because when training an animal to perform a task that involves pulling a heavy weight on command, the polar bear is the natural choice.

They weren’t merely training them, were they? I thought they were “experimenting” with them – i.e. engineering them in some way. What animal would have been…

as Bob says:

He took whatever he wanted to
and he laid it all to waste
But his bodyguards and silver cane
were no match for the Jack of Hearts.

...not just a deck hand then!

'In the original outline of Lost', he wasn't, apparently. But that' pretty meaningless. A bunch of characters were added or rewritten after casting.

The original outline of Lost may have been written years…

(I read that somewhere a couple of years ago, can't remember…

Indeed, and Galahad isn't a very interesting character in the Grail quest.

Sure, but with Jack there's a rather interesting writing challenge involved. I'd have to borrow the season one DVDs, but Jack was very much the point of view character in the pilot — the audience surrogate, in a…

Because Jack isn't a very interesting character

Indeed, and Galahad isn't a very interesting character in the Grail quest.

To extend the metaphor, since I've been thinking about it, of the three knights that got to the Grail: Galahad achieved the Grail and went to Heaven; Percival (the most humane…

while Bill squints to convey mild irritation.

Or to attract cats?

Why was it Jack's arc when Desmond was driving so much of it?

Because Jack isn't a very interesting character — and he's always been more reactive than an active protagonist? Which does beg the question why the hell he's so often the center of attention, but that ends up…

For anyone still looking for answers this forum post from a Bad Robot intern

Found the time to read this. It was slightly ironic, IMO, that there was an advert for scientology.org at the bottom of the page when I finished. Or was it?

Don't know what I would have had instead, though. Perhaps following through with the alternate timelines somehow converging?

Most stupid series I have ever had the misfortune of watching.

You don't watch anywhere near enough television. That is all.

Imagine reading a book where the ending hasn't been written and when you get to the end the author may not really bother writing one – would you read it?

As in, the complete works of Neal Stephenson.

So the answer turns out to be: yes, if the journey is…

I saw the first few episodes and the infuriating plot holes wide enough to fly planes through drove me off – what interested me was the promise that they would resolve it all.

I watched the final episode, and it turns out they didn't. It was nonsense from the get…

the purpose of the polar bear

the show could've morphed into The Golden Compass reality, as a failsafe...?

a tool or piece for boring

I think you're being prophetic there.

I was still punting for a massive special effect in the finale, depicting the two worlds spilling into each other. Pah.

I was thinking when Desmond pulled the "plug" that maybe we'd get a waking Cthulhu... after all R'lyeh is midway between Sydney and LA

they're…

here is a reasonably good explanation of the purpose of the polar bear experiments I saw somewhere online:

Because when training an animal to perform a task that involves pulling a heavy weight on command, the polar bear is the natural choice. And they have the added advantage of blending…

I saw the first few episodes and the infuriating plot holes wide enough to fly planes through drove me off – what interested me was the promise that they would resolve it all.

I watched the final episode, and…

But yes, a cesna could have taken off from that. A jet airliner? Meh.

Battlestar Galactica.

To channel my inner comic book guy for a minute: Worst. Ending. Ever.

I suspect the rash of bad endings to long-running shows (BSG, Lost, The Sopranos, and so on) has more to do with the constraints of the business model than anything else.

The series-creators will never…

Craig, I was really connecting the bastardised popculture form of the religion with Lost more than making an in-depth analysis of BG (which I agree approached religion in a much more sophisticated manner, overall).

Fair enough, but I still can't bring myself to credit Lost with enough spiritual/religious nous to…

The sideways universe was an overly long setup for a feel-good cast photo op at the end.

That nails it. A photo op that had bugger all to do with the earlier seasons.

The ARC in story arc implies coming back to a place that you could have got to…

But none of had anything at all to do with the story on-island and with the previous seasons, so I don't see how it detracted from what people've put into/taken from the show,…

mawkish christianity, as Amerikan as that orange cheese

Well, I find that a rather odd snap-down to lay on a show whose head writer is an atheist, our heroes come from a society of polytheists and the Cylons — most of whom are convinced the genocide of the human race…

Hey, would anyone have been happier if Ron Moore had thrown in some fan-wank about Head-Six, Head-Baltar and Kara 2.0 being POXY "BEINGS OF LIGHT" IN A FLYING CHANDELIER!

And I call False Dichotomy.

(And to be honest, folks, you're calling bullshit on the finale when the Rag Tag Fleet just happened to trip over Kobol, the legendary lost home of humanity, three seasons back — where Laura Roslin's drug-trips turn out to be surprisingly accurate?)

My problem with the BSG ending was actually…

Touched by a frakking angel

mawkish christianity, as Amerikan as that orange cheese

My outrage over the final was somewhat muted by the earlier and tangentially related Battlestar Galactica "Touched by a frakking angel" ending.

What I find amusing is the way every damn thread about the Lost finale I've come across eventually morphs into relitigating 'Daybreak'. Hey, would anyone have been happier…

For fans who stuck with he whole run and didn't like the ending, surely they only wasted 15 minutes of their lives and were entertained by the rest?

It's the way the explanation retrospectively updates your feelings about the series.

Like getting to the end of a shaggy dog story…

For fans who stuck with he whole run and didn't like the ending, surely they only wasted 15 minutes of their lives and were entertained by the rest?

Well, may I commit tele-blasphemy here and suggest even The Wire had its longueurs, none of which invalidate a remarkable achievement.

I'd suggest that Claire having the baby over the two hours would have annoyed you more. Two minutes of that woman whining about her baby is more than I can take.

Well true. But they could have time compressed it a bit so that it at least looked like it…

Claire having a baby in two minutes annoyed me too.

I'd suggest that Claire having the baby over the two hours would have annoyed you more. Two minutes of that woman whining about her baby is more than I can take.

'It's the journey, not the destination' & all those cliches?

Wait: they're making The Hobbit into two films? Oh FFS!

Count your blessings — they could have done that to The Lovely Bones.

Wait: they're making The Hobbit into two films? Oh FFS!

There, and Back Again
(I can't remember where I saw that to credit it sadly).

2. Cuse and Lindoff have apparently (as part of the damping down strategy) been saying that Lost is story about characters and relationships, not ultimately about the mythology.

Personally, I think they're right — in a weird way, I didn't actually geek out on the "mythology" but the grace notes…

While we're aggregating our nerd rage: Guillermo Del Toro departs “The Hobbit”.

Wait: they're making The Hobbit into two films? Oh FFS!

"117 HOURS OF MY LIFE I CAN'T GET BACK"

Oh well... Anyone really think Lost has tragically deprived the world of cures for cancer, AIDS and the common cold? :)

Glad I mostly gave up after s2. The finale explained nothing.

I think the finale explained itself, and parts of season 6. It didn't really resolve much from the earlier seasons.

Claire having a baby in two minutes annoyed me too.

Someone upthread suggested that looking for explanations misses the…

[WARNING: Litany of complaints follows]

1. The redemption/purgatory/flash-sideways storyline had nothing to do with…

The first draft of Empire has leaked online in the last month or so, written by Leigh Bracket using George's notes.

[[http://mixnmojo.com/news/First-draft-of-Empire-Strikes-Back-screenplay-gets-leaked-reveals-a-Star-Wars-without-I-am-your-fa|It's an interesting read (link at…

but they wussed out and went for the whole "back to the island" plot instead and then it all went Gilligan on acid.

I'll have you know that they went back to the Island on Gilligan too =)

"there's so much they didn't address... not small stuff either – the dharma initiative were like running the island for a whole two seasons"

" 'focusing on the characters'...…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLXSwIERMA

I love it.

Indeed. It was like "all that stuff you thought was cool and relevant? It wasn't. We were just filling space with it."

Indeed. I never really watched Lost, but I kept up with what was happening online so I knew what other people were talking about. From what I can…

A convergance of the timelines would have been way too contrived and left way more questions.

We played a game on my favourite…

Indeed. It was like "all that stuff you thought was cool and relevant? It wasn't. We were just filling space with it."

Oh come on, Daniel Faraday FTW — dude, don't flirt with the little girl you know is going to grow up to be smoking hot. That's wrong. Your…

I would have liked to see that continue but with elements of the island starting to show up in the supposed normal world in a Philip K Dick broken reality style

I was still punting for a massive special effect in the finale, depicting the two worlds spilling into each…

So instead of bringing in all the cool Faraday science and the Desmond consciousness transferal and junk they just went with the ending the had kept for all these years.

Indeed. It was like "all that stuff you thought was cool and relevant? It wasn't. We were just filling space…

Does it strike you as something of a failure that even after the show has aired, it takes someone from the production co. to explain what happened?

Their relationship with the production company isn't verified. A failure would have been if no one watched it, or if we weren't talking…

So instead of bringing in all the cool Faraday science and the Desmond consciousness transferal and junk they just went with the ending the had kept for all these years.

Indeed. It was like "all that stuff you thought was cool and relevant? It wasn't. We were just filling space…

Lost set up a situation that invited an over-arching explanation for all the weird goings-on, but the payoff was non-existant.

Oh, to be fair, there's a difference between "non-existent" and "irritatingly unsatisfactory". I actually have a lot of sympathy with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse who, to their credit, gave…

So instead of bringing in all the cool Faraday science and the Desmond consciousness…

For anyone still looking for answers this forum post from a Bad Robot intern (Bad Robot is Lost's production company) claims inside knowledge, and lays out a pretty convincing case for how it all fit together.

Does it strike you as something of a failure that even after the show…

Classic example of what I am talking about is the bad guy (help me out here with his name) ... He was only meant to be in a few episodes but the writers felt that his character was such a good one that they kept him on.

Omar Little?

In a many year show you can't actually plot it super-tight, unless you resort to the soap opera dodge of swapping actors as the production circumstances changed.

Not only that, but you find me a show where some stuff just doesn't work. A plot line that had everyone in the…

I have absolutely no doubt that it was carefully mapped in advance.

It wasn't actually. Both David Lynch and Mark Frost have said they never wanted to solve the mystery of Laura Palmer's death — the point of the show was how this shocking event, and the gradual revelation of…

I have absolutely no doubt that it was carefully mapped in advance.

Everything I've ever read about Twin Peaks disagrees with you there. David Lynch and Mark Frost never intended to reveal the killer, it was the network who forced their hand.

Please no one claim that Twin Peaks "made sense" – magnificent entertainment though, eh

I have absolutely no doubt that it was carefully mapped in advance. And it made just as much sense as it needed to – much like, say, Lost Highway. I haven't seen so much as one…

Patchy though it was, I think Lost can still claim to be the big speculative fiction series of the 00s in the same way that The X Files was the big speculative series of the 90s.

and maybe Twin Peaks before that albeit a shorter run with two seasons from…

He was only meant to be in a few episodes but the writers felt that his character was such a good one that they kept…

didn't like living in hawaii so was written out early

lolnui

>If the island and everything that happened on it were real, what was the point of the flash sideways?
-Resolving the character issues, rather than the plot issues.

>And if flash sideways was just a staging post for heaven, why…

I had heard that they'd had the finale firmly in mind when they wrote the initial episodes – my theory is that mid series they went on a few diversions.

That still doesn't explain the polar bear. (In fact – and I freely admit I gave up halfway through season…

The characters spend the whole series misunderstanding each other and getting into silly conflicts

does sound like a soap opera

A counter-alphabetical discourse of the fantastical

full marks for use of the right "d" word (take note Holmes, Haden, et al)

I similarly found last night's…

I was going to say that. Not Dickens books in which chapters 2 to 12 turn out to have been a dream, though.

Dumas, on the other hand...

Dumas to Dallas: A counter-alphabetical discourse of the fantastical on my desk, Monday morning.

Isn't that exactly how Dickens and others wrote novels in serialised chunks? Bookiefolk, help me out.

There is a difference between 'author hasn't written it out yet, but has a pretty good idea what happens', and 'author has no fucking clue either'.

But they don't set themselves as many tasks as Lost did, and successful soap operas are faithful to the idea of a story arc. Lost's big arc was probably just too hard…

Isn't that exactly how Dickens and others wrote novels in serialised chunks?

I was going to say that. Not Dickens books in which chapters 2 to 12 turn out to have been a dream, though.

Dumas, on the other hand...

I think I've watched every episode. I'd say the last season or so has been a little week as things try to wrap up. it was better earlier when there were new themes to explore, but hey, there are worse things to watch, right?

It's all…

Imagine reading a book where the ending hasn't been written

Isn't that exactly how Dickens and others wrote novels in serialised chunks? Bookiefolk, help me out.

That's quite common in TV series…

The characters all died in the initial plane crash.

I don't think they did. I'm with Jake: Jack died then, people like Boone and Locke died earlier, but Sawyer and Kate and the others (not The Others) escaped on the plane and died maybe years later. Everything not in sideways…

Others here probably have better advice, but this worked for me.…

the writers were way underqualified to write about all the baby stuff that happened.

MY BABY!!1!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtY-A6evNEE

What annoyed me way more than the unanswered questions (once they're…

Glee returns this Friday

Why is their glee club called Nude Erections?

Lost

Glad I mostly gave up after s2. The finale explained nothing.

Sidewaysland

I quite liked Sidewaysland, I must say. Miles and Sawyer cop show spin-off, anyone?

And Ashes to Ashes resolved its…

why were there characters in the church who were still alive on the island

Spoilers, of course.

Because what we thought of as the flash sideways wasn't set in any time – Christian Shephard (heh, didn't pick that one until two seconds before Kate did), said something along those lines…