Public Address | Cafe | Polity: Leaving only footprints

David Hood

Sat, 20 Feb 2016 16:10:01 +1300

Most weekends this time of year I will spend a few hours wandering around in Orokonui Ecosanctury- I can't even really call it a day walk, but it is a chance to get to where there is no traffic noise, not encountering many other people, and a lot of birdsong.…

izogi

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:20:19 +1300

This obviously makes the route more accessible (and it’s needed to control erosion in some places), but does it encourage people to go walking in jandals and t-shirts?

From what I’ve heard that’s a never-ending dilemma for management of parks.

On the surface New Zealand has different tiers of recreation…

Moz

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 11:36:17 +1300

I thought we had big worms here, too?

How else are you gunna catch Te Ika a Maui?

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 11:24:08 +1300

the ferocious wildlife… sandflies, mussels, keas and such.

I thought we had big worms here, too?
:- )

Moz

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:59:56 +1300

If the routes were less well marked, you'd need to think about what you were up to and carry a map and compass, right?

Nope. I have run round in the hills looking for people on occasion, too many of whom were wearing beach attire in mountainous areas when the…

Moz

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:54:14 +1300

A recumbent bike. I don't really count anything with a pacer vehicle or going downhill as truly self powered. But you're saying it wasn't a tricycle, specifically, right?

Now you're making things complicated. The International Human Powered Vehicle Association have a list of speed records that they certify but you'll…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:53:47 +1300

Something I've noticed in NZ is the very high standard of waymarking and path improvements – having markers every few metres, nice wooden steps, etc.

This obviously makes the route more accessible (and it's needed to control erosion in some places), but does it encourage people to go walking in…

John Palethorpe

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 08:47:02 +1300

In fairness Russell, after a week in the classroom the absolute silence of a trail and the certain absence of children makes tramping one of my absolute favourite 'not a teacher' thing to do.

BenWilson

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:10:25 +1300

Top and tailing, wood smoke, and stranger farts and snores...

B Jones

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 22:08:40 +1300

It was called freedom walking nearly 25 years ago when I walked the Milford Track and stayed in the DoC huts. Coldest and wettest I have ever been. Flaked potatoes for dinner. Sandfly bites and wet wool and playing cards with strangers. That's tramping.

izogi

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 21:44:42 +1300

I’m not sure of the details but at the time “freedom walking” was a protest against the track being closed to ordinary trampers (of course this was 20 years before the National Parks act was signed). Now days it just means going without a guide.

Maybe it's been used this…

BenWilson

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 18:07:25 +1300

Nah, fastest HPV is a bike

A recumbent bike. I don't really count anything with a pacer vehicle or going downhill as truly self powered. But you're saying it wasn't a tricycle, specifically, right? I don't think that's going to make it any slower – just less safe :)

It…

izogi

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:24:39 +1300

It’s also not especially safe in the scheme of things. Not so long ago there was nearly a major tragedy, which arguably was a fortuitous outcome for something that’s been on the edge of happening for a long time.

The Dominion Post and some others [[http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/6862872/Editorial-Tourism-operators-have-a-moral-duty|blamed an operator who dropped…

B Jones

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:11:39 +1300

Walking the Tongariro Crossing with a line of literally hundreds of people stretching into the distance

I've done that. I've seen Lambton Quay with fewer people on it. It wasn't so much the numbers that bugged me (I've done a lot of busy Great Walks), it was the clueless gear.…

st ephen

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:52:58 +1300

Yes, I've been fell walking (and scrambling) in the UK. And done some pub-to-pub walking. It's fantastic. But my view is that "tramping" is a particular word used in NZ to describe a particular recreational activity that is psychologically and physically different – if only because the environment, facilities and…

Carol Stewart

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 13:51:57 +1300

privately (or communally) owned farmland used for summer grazing

I’ll have to say that it is very weird seeing cattle roaming around alpine environments. This (Pralognan-la-Vanoise) is a national park in France.

Rob Salmond

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 13:19:32 +1300

Mangahao valley (Tararuas) this time, and Mukamuka stream (Rimutakas) earlier in the year.

izogi

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:55:30 +1300

Incidentally if anyone’s trying to figure out where it’s legal to go, the Walking Access Mapping System is awesome.

It’s the first big accomplishment of the Walking Access Commmission that was created in 2008 to help promote and liaise for improved public walking access. After some initial research they figured…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:48:50 +1300

Another interesting thing about the Swiss photo I posted is that most of the land up there is privately (or communally) owned farmland used for summer grazing and as a ski resort in winter. The farmers accept that there is public access over the land (I believe the lift company…

izogi

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:44:21 +1300

I believe it only becomes climbing or mountaineering when you start using tools (rope, ice-axe, crampons).

To me the division between tramping and mountaineering is about risk, and it occurs once a line’s been crossed where the risk changes markedly. That extra risk, whilst low if you have the skills,…

Moz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:01:58 +1300

Nah, fastest HPV is a bike, and not one that's easy for even a sighted person to ride. But the glee you see from blind people when they get to drive a trike is hard to overstate. Especially for someone who just has impossibly foggy vision, the ability to go…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:20:07 +1300

This is considered (fell-) walking in the UK (Striding Edge, in the Lake District).

I believe it only becomes climbing or mountaineering when you start using tools (rope, ice-axe, crampons).

Rosemary McDonald

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:11:19 +1300

(unfortunately necessary now that the rivers of shit are so often unsafe for that type of contact between body and water).

and this is yet another 'fact' that the tourists have learned about NZ...our rivers are not safe to swim in. On the other hand, there is a river that…

BenWilson

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:04:07 +1300

You stealth camp in Ozzie? You're game.

Carol Stewart

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:00:36 +1300

I have a great deal of experience with shitting in the woods (a poo shovel is necessary),

These are standard kit for backcountry camping or tramping in North America. Either dig and bury, or pack it out with you.

BenWilson

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:55:52 +1300

What could possibly go wrong with putting a blind person in charge of the fastest self-powered vehicle ever invented?

Carol Stewart

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:51:39 +1300

the whole sub-culture with its etiquette and taxpayer-funded playground are pretty much doomed

Yeah, nah back at you. A lot of volunteer effort goes into preserving some of the more remote backcountry huts.

BenWilson

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:50:37 +1300

since tramping was never popular in NZ beyond a tiny white, middle-class minority and is even less popular with moneyed tourists

It does depend what you mean by tramping in making that observation. Going hunting and fishing in the bush is extremely popular well beyond the minority you refer to,…

Moz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:49:21 +1300

I met a blind bloke in Timaru who was very excited to hear about tandem recumbent trikes, as his wife found the upright bike version quite hard to deal with (him being the bigger, heavier member of the team). They put me up for the night after chatting me up…

George Darroch

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:46:34 +1300

tramping was never popular in NZ beyond a tiny white, middle-class minority

It was popular, with people of all classes, and to the extent that it was white and Maori, it was because NZ was overwhelmingly white and Maori. It's now more middle class than it used to be, certainly.…

Moz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:45:02 +1300

So many tourists don't pay, won't pay and share tips on how to avoid paying. Get them at the border.

That. See also "freedom campers", otherwise known as "shit everywhere" campers. Although I have to admit it is another case of the problematic few giving the other 1% a bad…

BenWilson

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:43:56 +1300

That's quite cool, and I guess I chose words poorly. It's not that hiking for the vision impaired is impossible. It's just that it's a huge mission. There are plenty of sports far more within his comfort zone. Unsurprisingly, he prefers those himself. On of the greatest attractions of hiking…

Rosemary McDonald

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:38:27 +1300

And stop shitting in the woods.

And in the sand dunes.

Seen this at one of the few beach side, vehicle accessible DOC camps.

When challenged (because I am that way inclined) Young Fraulein declared that the roll of toilet paper under her arm was to dry her hands after…

st ephen

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:30:14 +1300

It’s called “hiking” or “walking” outside NZ.

Yeah, nah.Tramping in New Zealand is not the same as walking in Europe. Or at least, it wasn't in the past. You can certainly 'walk' our Great Walks, and end each day at a large lodge with flush toilets and gas lighting and…

Moz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:10:24 +1300

The hut ticket system works OK where there are hut wardens (who are usually volunteers). ... Why would you do that whilst at the same time pouring massive subsidies into the tourist industry

That's a really good point. I'd much rather see DoC get a fee per tourist entering the…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:41:03 +1300

Why would you do that

...to stop the great walks turning into Venice?
imagine whole cruise ship loads with
their all-terrain pull-along luggage...

if more people take the tracks,
it won't be the empty space they all came for...
(unless night hiking and becomes a thing)
and more people means…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:19:47 +1300

charging a fee to international visitors.

Why would you do that whilst at the same time pouring massive subsidies into the tourist industry (casinos, airport runways, sporting events)?

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:16:18 +1300

It’s the Cabin Mt Fort above Verbier, Switzerland.

Carol Stewart

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 08:47:35 +1300

Yes, you've nailed the problem very well.
The hut ticket system works OK where there are hut wardens (who are usually volunteers).
I was up at Lake Angelus, in Nelson Lakes, in January, and the warden told us that there were eight hut bookings for the night, including the three…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:19:14 +1300

Now days it just means going without a guide

izogi

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:24:56 +1300

Dad freedom walked Milford (it used to be controlled, closed, mere NZ citizens were banned from walking it)

The guaranteed right of free entry to National Parks (s4 of the National Parks Act) and Conservation Areas (s17 of the Conservation Act) is one of the established rights I really treasure…

Paul Campbell

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 22:53:05 +1300

I grew up in a tramping family – Mum and Dad met in the local tramping club, we got lugged around in the back of their packs until we could walk – wandered bits of the Routeburn at 5 – easters at Howden, and MacKenzie, hunting easter eggs up the…

Carol Stewart

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 22:32:03 +1300

In other countries, it can be super civilised, as shown in this picture of some “randonneurs” enjoying a nice drink and snack at 2400m:

Where is that, Rich? The Vanoise?

Carol Stewart

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 22:30:43 +1300

I’ve never tried hiking overseas – the absence of large predators and small poisonous things has a lot going for it.

Another fabulous thing about NZ tramping is the back country hut and track system. I've done a fair bit of tramping in Canada and the Pacific Northwest, and with…

izogi

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:47:48 +1300

Uh, sorry. That was a bad choice of words.

B Jones

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:43:30 +1300

Sadly almost the entire course programme was killed off very recently

At first I thought that must have been one hell of a bad tramping accident, then I read it properly.

I've never tried hiking overseas – the absence of large predators and small poisonous things has a lot going…

Sacha

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 20:45:30 +1300

competing with the MSC for some of the funding it used to get

the joys of neoliberalism

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:58:31 +1300

Unfortunately, it's not really a sport for the vision impaired,

This?

izogi

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:53:40 +1300

One of the teachers was swept away and, horrifyingly, later discovered dead downstream.

Yikes. Sorry to hear it. That’s a horrible thing to be involved in.

The Mountain Safety Council, which grew out of Federated Mountain Clubs in the 60s, has been running river safety courses for a long time,…

Richard Ram

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:24:51 +1300

You might be interested in these folks, based on Palm Nth. http://whiowhio.weebly.com/

BenWilson

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:21:34 +1300

My dad was mad keen on it, having got a taste with the varsity trampling club. I did enjoy it, although as a child the exhaustion could be quite extreme – humping packs for miles over mountains with little legs was not the part of it I enjoyed. But getting…

izogi

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:17:31 +1300

Hi Rob. Which Tararua valley, if I can be so bold to ask?

up the Rimutakas’ only mountain

Do you mean the highest point? It's called a mountain range for a reason. :)

artig

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:05:30 +1300

Unfortunately it's only within the last few years that I have started tramping, and arthritic knees and other commitments keep me from doing overnight or multi-day tramps. Fortunately there are numerous day-walk options within reasonable driving distance. To maintain an interest in tramping, and hopefully help others who may be…

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:50:13 +1300

Was it just me or did everyone else have an inordinately high proportion of trampers among their high-school teachers? Perhaps it was just the time, but many of mine seemed to be mad for it.

School tramping trips were thus serious affairs. Although there was one awful incident when a…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:40:16 +1300

It’s called “hiking” or “walking” outside NZ. People do it a lot, probably more than NZers, if the numbers on a sunny day (or even a crap day – if you only hike on nice days in the UK, you don’t hike at all) in Snowdonia or the Lake District…

Public Address

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:40:16 +1300

Discussion from blog post.