Public Address | Cafe | Polity: Global behemoths and tax https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Andrew Robertson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358140#post358140 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358140#post358140 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:41:33 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358135#post358135 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358135#post358135 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 14:10:16 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358128#post358128 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358128#post358128 If they do anything to lower shareholder value, they can be taken to court by the shareholders.

Really? As a shareholder, director and manager I will call bullshit on this and similar claims. Companies create and destroy shareholder value every day. Nobody would take an executive position anywhere if this…

]]> Mon, 21 Mar 2016 13:25:56 +1300 Andrew Robertson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358116#post358116 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358116#post358116 I will however point out, that said companies, are generally required (by law ?), to maximise returns for shareholders… which obviously, includes not “spending” money that does not need to be spent… thus, it’s not just a “moral” matter… they are obliged either by legal requirement or at least perceived… ]]> Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:31:19 +1300 FletcherB https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358108#post358108 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358108#post358108 Just as some people needed a god to be good,
so companies need laws to keep them being upstanding contributing patrons of society.

Yes, thats about the size of it... especially when large chunks of the shareholders are other companies or investment schemes... not just "mom+pop" investors who might be…

]]> Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:59:42 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358102#post358102 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358102#post358102 so they don’t have a legal way to avoid them…

Just as some people needed a god to be good,
so companies need laws to keep them being upstanding contributing patrons of society.
"Maximising returns for shareholders"?
Its a shitty argument

]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:45:45 +1300 FletcherB https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358100#post358100 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358100#post358100 I do not wish, for one second, to be seen as supporting or applauding multinationals with billions in revenue, not paying their fair share and supporting our governments revenue base, which will help pay for government services and relieve the personal tax burden. on individual citizens...

I will however point…

]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 20:31:32 +1300 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358097#post358097 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358097#post358097 I can buy that same Mac in the US for $1299. On a straight currency conversion that’s NZ$1900. Is an extra $500 per unit justified to get the product to NZ?

Are you adjusting for GST vs the still to be added on sales tax for the US state you…

]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 11:48:20 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358096#post358096 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358096#post358096 Herald cartoon ]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 11:47:56 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358095#post358095 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358095#post358095 Michael Woodhouse says nah! ]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 11:29:59 +1300 Heather McCracken https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358089#post358089 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358089#post358089 I can buy the same 13 inch Macbook Pro (2.6GHZ, 128GB HDD, 8GB RAM) from Apple for $2,399 and from JB HiFi for exactly the same price.

There's also the substantial markup on US prices. I can buy that same Mac in the US for $1299. On a straight currency…

]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 03:11:36 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358088#post358088 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358088#post358088 Thanks for the article Rob. I did think Labour's response was a bit tepid. The whole "let's wait for the OECD to sort it out" is, frankly, nuts.

I don't know about the oil sector. The pharma sector drives me nuts (see also TPP and IP and monopolies). Yay we…

]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 00:30:43 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358087#post358087 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358087#post358087 We have fully-staffed Treasury and IRD with the requisite analytical skills, public duty and powers to address these issues

But you know what Treasury and the Inland Revenue Department does NOT (and never should have) the public duty or powers to do? Write tax legislation.

]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 00:25:39 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358086#post358086 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358086#post358086 I reckon Facebook and Apple are two good cases to make an example of. You don’t necessarily need a law change – more aggressive enforcement of existing laws, including testing grey areas in court, could get us on a good path.

Which is all very nice, and I don't disagree,…

]]> Sat, 19 Mar 2016 00:22:21 +1300 Simon Lyall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358083#post358083 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358083#post358083 Which if any of those hypothetical scenarios bears any resemblance to reality?

Google is probably (5) right now but I know of companies that I guess are each of the others. In the past Google was some of the other options. Companies like Facebook, Amazon, Yahoo, Microsoft, Dropbox might be…

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:43:30 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358082#post358082 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358082#post358082 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:24:03 +1300 Simon Lyall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358081#post358081 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358081#post358081 In the case of Google, nz eyeballs ARE the added value. Nz advertisers are the local revenue stream. Google get both for close to nothing tax wise.

Note we are talking about company profit here not GST or other sales taxes (and interesting but different issue).

How much tax should…

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:14:13 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358080#post358080 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358080#post358080 The important thing is that the 1,2 or 10 people working in New Zealand for Apple, Google or Facebook don't generate all that much added value for the companies.

I guess that depends on how you slice it. For example, the Austrian-based Red Bull GmbH, which must be a significant…

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 21:30:25 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358077#post358077 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358077#post358077 In the case of apple, there's "added value" and then there's markup (or pure profit.) It's pretty clear the majority of that comes from sales here.
And how much of apple's "added value" really comes from Ireland?
In the case of Google, nz eyeballs ARE the added value. Nz advertisers…

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 21:13:17 +1300 Swan https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358076#post358076 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358076#post358076 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 21:08:52 +1300 kiwiwolf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358074#post358074 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358074#post358074 And no matter what the wrong you can guarantee to find at least 1 kiwi prepared to make excuses for them.
I wonder if the fact that IRD etc do nothing about it has anything to do with politicians holding shares? or am I being too synical

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 20:23:37 +1300 Simon Lyall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358072#post358072 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358072#post358072 This is a story that comes around regularly, John Campbell did it just 6 months ago and it has been done many times before that.

The important thing is that the 1,2 or 10 people working in New Zealand for Apple, Google or Facebook don't generate all that much added…

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 20:14:21 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358066#post358066 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358066#post358066 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:45:11 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358062#post358062 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358062#post358062 We could just leave it in the ground to appreciate in value.
True 'nuff! – after all...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrxRJ9HlfZk

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:54:21 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358061#post358061 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358061#post358061 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:29:06 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358059#post358059 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358059#post358059 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:42:58 +1300 Peter Davis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358058#post358058 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358058#post358058 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:44:16 +1300 bob daktari https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358054#post358054 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358054#post358054 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:07:17 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358051#post358051 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358051#post358051 Generalized Indignation and Outrage...
Could this be called GIO politics?
:- )

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:44:35 +1300 Kiwiiano https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358050#post358050 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358050#post358050 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:43:28 +1300 bob daktari https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358049#post358049 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358049#post358049 the argument holds for most things – other than oil still being essential (for now)

I'm in the Generalized indignation and Outrage camp – good corporate citizens don't shirk their responsibilities to the communities they serve (and profit from), that includes paying their taxes, not minimising them

Their behaviour is…

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:39:42 +1300 Rob Salmond https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358046#post358046 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358046#post358046 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:10:44 +1300 bob daktari https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358045#post358045 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358045#post358045 Not sure why oil gets sympathy where tech doesn't... other than its an essential item (currently)

I am willing to buy that oil companies have a lower profit margin in far flung, spread out New Zealand than elsewhere.

Replace oil with anything and hey thats NZ

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:58:09 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358044#post358044 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/polity-global-behemoths-and-tax/?p=358044#post358044 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:58:09 +1300