Public Address | Cafe | Polity: Decrypting “social investment”

Marc C

Tue, 24 May 2016 14:47:56 +1200

Further to my comments above, re Gordon Purdie’s criticism of statements in the AFOEM’s position statement on the health benefits of work (strongly promoted since 2010/11 also then used as support to welfare reforms in New Zealand), it appears the Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP) and the Australasian Faculty…

Marc C

Mon, 23 May 2016 16:50:53 +1200

Yes, David Parker deserves some respect, he has indeed done some good and hard work. Sadly, as David Cunliffe chose him as a kind of deputy opposition leader, he was after the last disastrous election result sent further down the ranks.

He seems to be working his way back up…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 23 May 2016 13:08:59 +1200

I have a lot of time for David Parker, he's prepared to make the hard calls because they need to be done, not because they are politically expedient.

Having had a coupla long and wide-ranging conversations with him recently.
I trust him...
...and to be honest there's not many people…

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 23 May 2016 11:37:33 +1200

Rarely if ever does he respond.

Hey...I asked if Labour had a Plan...(back up the page somewhere) and voila! An email arrived in our inbox from from Andrew himself with ...a Plan!

Heartwarming. (I hear that the Cetacean's Bride got a similar one, and here was I thinking it was…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 23 May 2016 09:38:46 +1200

Most weeks there is a talk by a 'muscular intellectual of the left' or two in a crowded church hall in Wellington and a robust discussion.

Little (no pun intended) risk of 'robust discussion' here. The comments on these Polity posts mostly follow the same pattern. People attempt to engage…

Hilary Stace

Mon, 23 May 2016 08:04:05 +1200

Mike Smith has been doing a good job with the Fabians for the last couple of years. Most weeks there is a talk by a 'muscular intellectual of the left' or two in a crowded church hall in Wellington and a robust discussion. So these things are happening, but you…

Tom Semmens

Mon, 23 May 2016 04:04:48 +1200

And since the sherry here is indeed dulce, I will add where the fuck are NZ’s muscular intellectuals of the left in Labour? I was at a Podemos gathering in cafe in the main plaza of my town the other week and a bunch of perfectly ordinary Spaniards had a…

Tom Semmens

Mon, 23 May 2016 03:49:29 +1200

I know I shouldn't be replying to an NZ post in the middle of the night when we are on a terrace drinking beer on a glorious Spanish evening in Jerez de la Frontera, but the Labour party bugs me. They current PLP is squandering a century old legacy. If…

Marc C

Mon, 23 May 2016 01:39:55 +1200

"And the worst thing is, this post on policy demonstrates the Labour party is still so far up it’s own arse it can’t even see that."

Tom, I am afraid you are right. And the speech Andrew Little delivered as Pre-Budget speech may have offered a good summary of National’s…

Tom Semmens

Sun, 22 May 2016 22:13:46 +1200

“Labour needed to be ambitious and bold to win the next election…”

Fat chance you’ll get that from the current hopeless bunch of intellectually lazy cowards that make up the NZ PLP and it’s advisors!

This post of Rob Salmond’s is cut and paste Blairism of the most mind numbingly…

Seriatim

Sun, 22 May 2016 21:10:35 +1200

"Labour needed to be ambitious and bold to win the next election..."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/21/jeremy-corbyn-labour-economy-re-industrialisation-digital-age

Marc C

Sun, 22 May 2016 02:22:29 +1200

Looking again at this publication in the NZMJ from 20 November 2015, and at another link I provided before, I wonder which one was first in finding out the flawed statement and lack of credible science reference issue:

https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/read-the-journal/all-issues/2010-2019/2015/vol-128-no-1425-20-november-2015/6729

PDF with post on separate blog:
https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/msd-dr-bratt-present-misleading-evidence-on-worklessness-and-health-post-09-08-15.pdf

Read pages 16 to…

Sacha

Sat, 21 May 2016 11:05:44 +1200

what the CTU's Bill Rosenberg had to say about the government's investment approach

a great read, thanks.

Joe Wylie

Sat, 21 May 2016 00:16:45 +1200

The Sallies in NZ appear to have learnt from their ill-advised blunder of the 1980s, when they publicly opposed homosexual law reform. Unlike the US, where they've become active deliverers of privatised welfare and even probation services, they've largely kept themselves aloof from any political taint.

The Church's willingness to…

Marc C

Fri, 20 May 2016 21:22:17 +1200

Blaming the Sallies for the government's failures would be too blatantly obvious a desperate attempt to divert attention. So they may realise that won't help them. And the government may also think, they better not upset the Sallies, as they will still need them for such future 'dirty jobs' as…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 20 May 2016 21:07:36 +1200

Sally forth...
the Salvation Army and their experiences
I'm surprised the Government hasn't tried either blaming them for not pulling their weight or tried to foist the social and emergency housing onto them — they seem to be the Government's go to organisation for 'dirty jobs' they don't want anymore…

Marc C

Fri, 20 May 2016 20:04:54 +1200

This is what the CTU's Bill Rosenberg had to say about the government's investment approach:
'The “Investment Approach” is not an investment approach'

http://union.org.nz/sites/union.org.nz/files/Investment%20Approach%20is%20not%20an%20investment%20approach%20-%20Rosenberg_0.pdf

I think one needs to read that before considering the "investment approach" as being good or useful.

And here is an earlier post that was discussed…

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 20 May 2016 12:52:07 +1200

but they need to be pointing to all the times they have been this nation’s saving grace and not hiding their light under a bushel.
To borrow the metaphor du jour from National, it’s time for them to ‘capitalise’ on their past ‘social investments’ – and step up with solutions…

James Littlewood*

Fri, 20 May 2016 12:28:25 +1200

My guess is Bill English will wrap a lot of this up with terms like “social investment"

My guess is every National MP and paid and unpaid mouthpiece from here to oblivion will crow about it so loudly that semantic analyses of what you call it will wither and die…

Rob Stowell

Fri, 20 May 2016 12:17:27 +1200

the only public voice heard is that of a particularly isolated, provincial and grasping philistinism
Get a radio. Be careful! With the volume way down, tune to FM101.7 (or thereabouts). You can then safely raise the volume and fine-tune :)

dcnbwz

Fri, 20 May 2016 08:46:05 +1200

Fantastic post Marc. Staggering that the opposition parties stumble on, where clearly there are so many areas they could focus on, actually strategise and produce real alternatives. Instead they continue to fight against coalition, and squabble over the populist base.

We are being betrayed by this government and the politics…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 20 May 2016 08:44:47 +1200

Life is wet, just dry it!
I can't believe Labour is squandering the possibilities of this, their centenary year.
Few political parties get to turn 100, especially ones that have a history of doing the best for their nation's most vulnerable with the support of those able to help.
Labour…

Marc C

Fri, 20 May 2016 02:08:08 +1200

"But we’ve had that approach for decades. Now people are living in cars while the viaduct basin is full of super-yachts."

Sorry, I lost who wrote this and who I am responding to. We learn from history now, which is a science most ordinary citizens have no knowledge about or…

Tom Semmens

Fri, 20 May 2016 01:10:27 +1200

Even for a country of 4.5 million where the only public voice heard is that of a particularly isolated, provincial and grasping philistinism it must take some doing to be as completely and totally fucking ideologically and intellectually bereft as the current, terminally stupid, NZ Labour party.

Marc C

Fri, 20 May 2016 01:04:00 +1200

As you get it, science though is irrefutable, so the above shows, there are ample well paid liars that serve government and insurance agencies, including ACC. We have the high paid liars keep us from claiming, hence our destitution. But I have contacts so we work from there. This is…

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 20 May 2016 00:26:41 +1200

@Rob Salmond

Oh, boy oh boy oh boy....

I just downloaded and read the first few pages of the Deloitte / NZIER report ...it reads like that wide-awake wet dream Uncle Bill "the Lizard" had back in 2010. The one I call the 'big hard lump of wasted human potential' manifesto.…

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 23:11:09 +1200

FFS is this real, that is what most think, ahem. this cannot be, that is the reality, most cannot and will not understand this can be done, that is the problem we have. MSM criminals need to be decapitated I fear, to get people learn the truth and their true…

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 23:05:26 +1200

Ghasp, for air and more, the "real world" is something I have been told about endless times, it makes me wonder, oh so wonder, what does it mean or are they living in another world?" I have NO faith no more in BS.

Rosemary McDonald

Thu, 19 May 2016 22:21:22 +1200

you will simply NOT deal with and address the social and economic and other problems this country has had for years, by trying yet more experimenting and stuff like we know.

Hmmm....I was speaking to a thin air breather from the Ministry Which Shall Remain Nameless the other day. (Well,…

Rob Stowell

Thu, 19 May 2016 22:02:22 +1200

"Decrypting" – nah. Back in the crypt. Bury it!
As a mate said on facebook – Andrew Little – try it this way
https://youtu.be/XSRUmRYrRLY

Rob Stowell

Thu, 19 May 2016 21:47:59 +1200

“Social investment”?!
Why is it a good idea to use the language of business and banking to talk about people’s welfare?
Words are how we understand and think about the world. Words take their meaning from their relationships with other words in the same domain. When we use words from…

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 21:05:42 +1200

I can tell Rob and others, you will simply NOT deal with and address the social and economic and other problems this country has had for years, by trying yet more experimenting and stuff like we know.

What this country is lacking is true communities, it may exist in pockets…

Sacha

Thu, 19 May 2016 20:14:31 +1200

Ta for yours again. Rob may have seen some Labour-only material as well.

Sacha

Thu, 19 May 2016 20:12:59 +1200

I'd be careful of criticising working/not working too much. Without the ability to try new things you can develop nothing innovative and without the freedom to fail you become far too cautious.

Agreed. Traditionally risk-averse organisations like central and local government need a way to ring-fence higher-risk trials, evaluate and…

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 20:10:17 +1200

Sorry, I just realised you addressed your question to Rob, so let us wait what he has to offer.

Tinakori

Thu, 19 May 2016 20:02:53 +1200

"And, in this case, there’s evidence emerging that lots of the trials didn’t work."

I think something was announced in the social welfare area recently in which four or five teams or projects were extended and three or four were discontinued because they weren't working or showing value for money.…

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:54 +1200

Remember this also:
http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/51HansQ_20150917_00000008/8-welfare-reforms%E2%80%94mental-health-and-sole-parent-employment

I am not sure whether more digging was done by Labour or Greens or NZ First, it should have been done, so we need to check with them all.

andin

Thu, 19 May 2016 19:49:43 +1200

I get a sense of weary resignation reading this post, is that me?
Why does this govt abuse written communication like this?
“The most at risk” are always going to be the poor.
“social investment”?
Could we get a living wage FFS…Annual wages rises in line with inflation?
What happened…

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 19:47:08 +1200

There is some, but I may have to dig it out, I am not the one in control of them, but can get some access. There have been a fair few links offered before, and some of the info received from MSD has been highly questionable or at least ambiguous,…

Sacha

Thu, 19 May 2016 19:09:08 +1200

I think trying new things is a reasonable idea, so long as you’re doing it properly. And, in this case, there’s evidence emerging that lots of the trials didn’t work.

Do you have any good links to share about that, or is it internal party OIAs, etc?

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 18:52:44 +1200

I also wonder whether Labour agrees with this kind of stuff:
http://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2014/10/19/nz-finance-minister-bill-english-insults-beneficiaries-with-mansel-aylwards-work-will-set-you-free-approach/

Dear Labour, if you want MY vote, and if you do not want nearly 290,000 on benefits to be left by the wayside as potential voters, perhaps you need a thorough RETHINK of your social security policy?

Any…

Marc C

Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:33 +1200

This “social investment” and also social impact bond business is supposed to all be based on “facts” and “scientific findings” and so forth, justifying new approaches by MSD and others. But few bother examining the government’s “evidence” and bold claims, and how it works out. We do for instance get…

Che Tibby

Thu, 19 May 2016 17:18:41 +1200

if you're looking for an example of social investment thinking, there is this app published off the back of some predictive risk modelling treasury did.

the general model is that the aggregate average projected costs can be offset by sensible spending, as you say. or at least that's the way…

Public Address

Thu, 19 May 2016 17:18:41 +1200

Discussion from blog post.