Public Address | Cafe | Polity: Behavioural economics and Hekia Parata

Howard Edwards

Tue, 13 Sep 2016 12:33:08 +1200

I guess what leaves me most frustrated with the economics profession are the ones like Friedman who seem to think that using Greek notation is an excuse to behave like a sociopath. Look what it did to Thatcher:

Hey – I rho-epsilon-sigma-epsilon-nu-tau that!

bob daktari

Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:33:42 +1200

Repeat after me: “economics is a social science”.

this... so much this

and as a social science it is but one... yet it is the only one politicians seem to care about, more fool them... and poor us

andin

Tue, 13 Sep 2016 07:05:00 +1200

Citizens are not a laboratory for secret policy experiments and should not have to second guess what programmes we are being nudged

And Ms Parata would like us to believe she is using a carrot not a stick and will use shape her language thus, just like our arsehole PM…

Jan Rivers

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 23:38:13 +1200

A couple of issues about nudge unit in the UK is that it is privatised and that it is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act. Therein lie some big problems. as described in this Guardian article

While the simpler implementations of nudge (behavioural modification)- the locations of…

James Littlewood*

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 21:03:12 +1200

All economics is behavioural

Yeah, sure. Qualitative brand consultants have been teaching you to drink your beer with the label facing outwards for decades. But that's the purview of psychologists in ad land. Economists have always been like "ugh, irrational purchase behaviour. We can tolerate it through this quantum ..."

James Littlewood*

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:47:39 +1200

And we’re just clever monkeys, tho, our best achievement is deluding ourselves it seems.

Yeah. Behavioural economics is good for explaining how most of the people most of the time don’t know shit about what they’re buying, why, or with what.

Adam H

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:19:33 +1200

And we’re just clever monkeys, tho, our best achievement is deluding ourselves it seems.

Yep. That.

I guess what leaves me most frustrated with the economics profession are the ones like Friedman who seem to think that using Greek notation is an excuse to behave like a sociopath. Look what…

andin

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 19:51:30 +1200

two central ideas in behavioural economics:

1. People respond to incentives.

Carrot
2. Therefore, policymakers should give people an incentive to do the right thing.

Stick

And we're just clever monkeys, tho, our best achievement is deluding ourselves it seems.

Adam H

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 17:36:46 +1200

All economics is behavioural: money and how we measure it is not a law of nature, it's a figment of our collective imagination. It is a form of Theology.

The problem is that the "profession" uses Greek when describing it's belief systems, which seems to have fooled people into thinking…

Tinakori

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:53:18 +1200

Well done, Rob. That;s the first post of yours that has created debate and dissension among your target audience other than the Chinese names contribution, which was rather unproductive. And I mean that entirely unironically. I am however surprised that the representatives of the various teachers unions have not demanded…

waihekeislander

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:19:23 +1200

Those are both options at present. Trips to Japan or an AB coach would currently be funded by Ops grant and/or fundraising. If a school chooses to instead spend that money on teachers they can do that now. The global funding proposal is altogether different. It means baseline teacher numbers…

mark taslov

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:19:20 +1200

Exactly.

mpledger

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:15:47 +1200

People subvert the statistics when their income or job is on the line which means the whole thing becomes pointless.

Look at the burglary statistics in South Auckland as an example.

mpledger

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:13:48 +1200

Things like school trips to Japan are funded by parents and fundraising – not school funds. It's cheaper for a kid to go with the school than for a family to go and usually the teacher doing it has all sorts of educational contacts to set up a good trip…

mark taslov

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:13:07 +1200

I worry when people with power act as if the real world is a academic exercise with points for effort

The possibilities are endless, bonus payments for great doctors and nurses when patients recover; for great WINZ staff when people come off benefits; for great police when crime drops, for…

Tom Semmens

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:08:01 +1200

Every time Rob posts something, a little bit of me dies. Because all he ever does is display how firmly a talentless Labour party is marooned in the 1990s. FFS mate, you have to come up with something a bit better than economic rationalism as a reason to not impose…

Hilary Stace

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 15:49:13 +1200

Teachers are only one aspect of schools. What about libraries, librarians, teacher aides and all the other support staff? Under bulk funding they all shrank. They have little power around the board table or even in the staff room. Where do they fit in under global funding and behavioural economics?

Sacha

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 15:40:28 +1200

Was bad poetry involved?

Rob Stowell

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 15:27:05 +1200

Phew!

On paper they may just be good friends. But there are rumours of a far closer relationship :(

bob daktari

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:48:31 +1200

possibly because its neither behavioral, economics nor does it make much sense

I worry when people with power act as if the real world is a academic exercise with points for effort... damn the consequences PR will tidy that stuff up

Rob Salmond

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:46:04 +1200

Good news for Rob: behavioural economics and managerialism are not the same thing. Phew!

Rob Stowell

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:34:34 +1200

Why do I see the promulgation of something called 'behavioural economics' and feel the chill hand of evil? Managerialism in a workplace is bad enough. But to really destroy a nation, you need a government willing to apply it to everything.

Rob Salmond

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 12:32:04 +1200

I’d say it’s a positive if schools spend their money on salaries for actual teachers instead of trips to Japan or having a former AB coach the rugby team.

I'd say those aren't the only two options...

James Littlewood*

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 12:31:32 +1200

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that teachers make school budget decisions, rather than boards of trustees who are usually parents.

Maybe. But what evidence is there to suggest parent trustees will be any less incentivised to do the wrong thing than school management?

Moz

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 12:30:28 +1200

delusion that teachers make school budget decisions, rather than boards of trustees

I have not seen very many extra-cirricular activities run purely by parents, though, although a lot of them "help out". It's actually very difficult for parents to create and run programs like that without help from the staff.…

Rob Salmond

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 12:29:48 +1200

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that teachers make school budget decision

No, not really. But I am saying it's much harder for a BOT to decide to fund a jazz band if there's no teacher with their hand up to run it, maintain the equipment, and so…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 12:27:58 +1200

I'd say it's a positive if schools spend their money on salaries for actual teachers instead of trips to Japan or having a former AB coach the rugby team.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:46:40 +1200

The alternative view is that National sees this as a possible outcome, and also sees it as a win, their view being that since private school children all pay separately for the "extras", why should public school children get a free ride for things that aren't core curriculum?

TracyMac

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:25:19 +1200

Here's hoping – assuming Key gives one toss about improving educational attainment, and thinks a deck-chair shuffling exercise in "behavioral economics" is better than directly funding the things you want schools to do (although of course they don't want schools engaging in non-sport extra-cirricular activities with the poors) – that…

Sacha

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:22:15 +1200

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that teachers make school budget decisions, rather than boards of trustees who are usually parents.

Public Address

Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:22:15 +1200

Discussion from blog post.