Public Address | Cafe | OnPoint: You're going to pay for this

Idiot Savant

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:06:01 +1200

At the "JOurnalism matters" summit on Saturday one Sunday paper admitted to being "quite driven" by the concerns Keith talks about; they watch their affiliated website closely during the week, and what gets the page-views plays a big role in story selection. But it seems to be driven more by…

John Farrell

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:13:52 +1200

I don't see ads in newspapers, or on web pages. It's a very useful filter to have.

Jeremy Andrew

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:10:36 +1200

Except with news, its not an either/or situation, more of a continuum. They can have the wide-appeal, lowest common denominator, Britney's boobs stories as well as the more focussed, high-brow analysis.
People already customise their newspapers, they chuck away the sections they don't read. Online, they'll ignore the sections they…

Angus Robertson

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:50:43 +1200

Paul Brislem said in the first comment:

Journalism has (in newspapers) always been about selling eyeballs to advertisers, not stories to readers... the readers are the product, not the customer.

Age old question of retail – make more money by selling more highly profitable product to a select band of…

Jeremy Andrew

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 10:25:44 +1200

Sure the advertising crew will have to work a bit smarter, but the results will be worth it. Hard news readers will generally be better educated, in better jobs and probably better paid. Getting some brand recognition to their specific eyeballs will be worth the bit of brainpower it takes…

giovanni tiso

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:52:31 +1200

But the advertisers who end up adjacent to such articles aren't necessarily being associated with the content – they will be keen on associating themselves with the type of reader who reads the hard news

Presumably you want the reader when s/he's in an appropriately idle/playful mood. Unlikely thought process:…

Jeremy Andrew

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:25:10 +1200

what company wants to associate its name to child abuse, of nuclear disarmament talks, or AIDS epidemics?

But the advertisers who end up adjacent to such articles aren't necessarily being associated with the content – they will be keen on associating themselves with the type of reader who reads the…

giovanni tiso

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:10:04 +1200

Will it mean that they don't place ads in irrelevant content?
Will it mean, therefore, that "irrelevant" content don't generate revenue?

In a previous discussion we touched upon the increase amount of gossip (er, celebrity news) on our beloved online dailies, and regardless of the merits I think we all…

dc_red

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:18:10 +1200

As an aside, the 16 Aug 2000 Stuff archive contains this wonderful headline and teaser:

Clinton bids triumphal farewell, extols record
LOS ANGELES (Reuters): President Bill Clinton bid a feisty and triumphful farewell to his Democratic Party on Monday, giving thanks that a man from "a small southern town" could…

Hamish McKenzie

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:03:56 +1200

It'll mean that content that was previously less relevant to advertisers will be increasingly more attractive to advertisers looking to connect with hard-to-reach audiences — especially niche audiences (the long tail). Therefore, it opens up possibilities for content that didn't previously generate revenue to start generating revenue.

Keith Ng

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:05:53 +1200

Will it mean that they don't place ads in irrelevant content?

Will it mean, therefore, that "irrelevant" content don't generate revenue?

Hamish McKenzie

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 18:51:45 +1200

Mr. Lam:

I take your point – but if your warning is for the future effect of contextual advertising on editorial, then I think you'll find there will soon be big changes from what NZ has now. Rather than the audience-size-determined contextualisation you speak of, ads — even fancy ones…

Keith Ng

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 18:08:38 +1200

Hamish:

Having delved even deeper into the underbelly of the nefarious marketing journalism...

Ah Hamish, you're the Andy Lau to my Lam Ka Tung. Never getting into an elevator with you again.

But I think your point applies to machine-driven contextual advertising, whereas in the NZ sites, the contextual drive…

Keith Ng

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:45:56 +1200

Paul:

which begs the question: why do publishers think I want to read it on one more than any of the others?

I think the idea is that they just need to have a strong brand, and that brand loyalty will keep readers there till the end of time. There's…

Hamish McKenzie

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:34:21 +1200

Having delved even deeper into the underbelly of the nefarious marketing journalism, and worked for magazines that have tailored some content to suit advertisers, I must say that my view of the role of contextual advertising is somewhat sunnier.

For a start, ads delivered by the likes of Google AdSense…

Jeremy Andrew

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:46:20 +1200

I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with my adverts knowing that much about me personally

I know what you mean (but not the way Google knows what you mean...). Turning off cookies stuffs them up, but that also kills off some other functionality that I do like. You can have…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:36:07 +1200

Paul:

Cheers, I just wanted to make sure I was engaging with the argument you were actually making, And, sure, you have a point – I just don't think its one you couldn't have made with equal force before teh interweb came along to kill our brainz. :) At the…

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:17:41 +1200

I wonder if you're overstating the case a little Keith. Car ads have run in the motoring section of newspapers for so long as there have been motoring sections. Hightly respected newspapers run travel sections whose chief purpose is to attract travel advertising.

That's true, and I was thinking the…

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:02:49 +1200

I wonder if you're overstating the case a little Keith. Car ads have run in the motoring section of newspapers for so long as there have been motoring sections. Hightly respected newspapers run travel sections whose chief purpose is to attract travel advertising. The thing you want to avoid, of…

Paul Brislen

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:33:14 +1200

Hi Craig, but that's my point... in the Good Old Days (TM) (can we still do (TM) or has that meme fled?) newspapers did write copy aimed at readers in one particular local/segment/whatever... these days they re-use copy from other areas without any regard for relevence whatsoever.

Have a look…

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:04:51 +1200

Keith
How can the EMPU really work for its members when Andrew Little openly coverts a Labour Party seat?
Or EMPU Journos write about Littles conflicts of interest.
The Labour Govt is a major employer/shareholder and so he seems to push far enough to stay in his job but not…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:14:13 +1200

There's been a furore in the UK after corporates and government found their ads running on Facebook (etc) against unacceptable content, like the BNP's facebook page. That rather came out of nowhere. It may well hit the income of social networking sites given that there is no way to guarantee…

Glen Wright

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:06:03 +1200

I had to turn my ad blocker off to see your point. Pity you can't turn the ads off in a newspaper, could save a lot of trees.

I know only a minority of 'net users will block ads, but there is a function to selectively choose between blocking ads…

Robyn Gallagher

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:02:50 +1200

Exhibit A: Stuff website, 2000. Exhibit B: Stuff website, 2007. The hard news portion of the website has gone from 80% of page width to 40%.

I opened the 2000 and 2007 Stuffs and compared them side by side.

In 2000, my browser size showed links to four stories, but…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:01:04 +1200

which begs the question: why do publishers think I want to read it on one more than any of the others?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, Paul. If, for the sake of argument, I was the editor of the New Zealand Herald I wouldn't assume that…

Andrew Feltoe

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:44:28 +1200

Contextual advertising? Don't know what you mean.

John Battelle's book on Google paints a scary picture of the future of targeted advertising. Well worth a read to understand the methods your attention is (and will be) bought and sold on the market.

Paul Brislen

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:33:47 +1200

Journalism has (in newspapers) always been about selling eyeballs to advertisers, not stories to readers... the readers are the product, not the customer.

Unfortunately, publishers seem to have moved from the "give the reader good journalism and they'll be back" school of thought to a "we can reuse that story…

Public Address

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:30:25 +1200

Discussion from blog post.