If it wasn't for Russell's suggestion that there is more to this than meets the eye, I would have assumed from what was said that someone had made allegations they couldn't substantiate and was forced to apologise when someone called bullsh*t.

I have professional links on both sides of the…

I mean a voluntary scheme, where interested parties can sign up and say "here's our code of ethics."

There are several such codes out there. A google search for "bloggers code of ethics" will point you to umpteen.

What would your cousin make of Simon Barnett hosting "Stars in your eyes", still promoting all of the best Hits

If I had to hazard a guess, I think he would claim to have never heard of it but secretly watch it religiously. I'm a fan of David Hasselhoff so…

*Huge* can of worms. The Internet is global you know. My blogs (like most peoples) are hosted in the US (actually, I'm not sure that LJ hasn't moved its hosting to Russia).

Oops. I should have been waaaay more specific. I was thinking in a New Zealand context, it might…

What would your cousin make of Simon Barnett hosting "Stars in your eyes", still promoting all of the best Hits.

I've found this whole discussion really useful.

If it wasn't for Russell's suggestion that there is more to this than meets the eye, I would have assumed from what was said that someone had made allegations they couldn't substantiate and was forced to apologise when someone called bullsh*t.

I have…

(actually, I'm not sure that LJ hasn't moved its hosting to Russia).

Ha, in Soviet Russia, blog hosts you. Which would certainly simplify things.

As someone still hanging on to their Listener subscription by the skin of their last straw, (as yet nobody rips the Black page off my copy),…

self-regulatory body might need to be established for internet media

*Huge* can of worms. The Internet is global you know. My blogs (like most peoples) are hosted in the US (actually, I'm not sure that LJ hasn't moved its hosting to Russia).

Would there be a global body. Whose standards…

I'd just like to point out that someone from APN is watching this thread closely.

I expect they would be! But I'm sure we get a lot of accesses from APN IP numbers.

All page impressions happily welcomed.

Don't go into journalism Josh, your research of primary sources is too scary – what you really need to do is say "he said.... but she said no he's wrong". You can fill pages and pages doing that. ;-)

Uhhh... is that a compliment? Sorry, my sarcasm detector is playing…

But what happens if they uphold a complaint and the blogger just ignores them? I doubt they'd persuade Google or another blog hoster to remove the pages without an American court order.

I guess that might be one of…

That's why I think corporates should not be allowed to sue for defamation (gawd remember the Oprah defaming beef issue?) it should be for individuals alone.

I'd imagine that it'd open it up as a free-for-all defaming every corporation around. Which can harm them, which can harm their income and…

It's not me. It would be nice if they sat and had a chat...

Apparently they will consider a complaint about any print media source ... with a large enough circulation/readership -

But what happens if they uphold a complaint and the blogger just ignores them? I doubt they'd persuade Google or another blog hoster to remove the pages without an American court order.…

The intertubes…

That's why I think corporates should not be allowed to sue for defamation (gawd remember the Oprah defaming beef issue?) it should be for individuals alone.

yes and a criticism of current media practices.

In terms of fronts groups, i see them as more groups that are created by special interests to have the veneer of independence and concerned citizen sponteneity. Happens all the…

Now maybe APN went nuclear too early,

No shit. Bit like the way they reacted to the reporting of the John Key "wages" gaff. Is there a track record forming? Should Scoop have a page a month for each APN action that has curtailed freedom of speech? Where are the…

Don't go into journalism Josh, your research of primary sources is too scary – what you really need to do is say "he said.... but she said no he's wrong". You can fill pages and pages doing that. ;-)

Yeah seriously. You rang up the Press Council and found out…

A more useful change of defamation law might to make it illegal to threaten defamation action – without proof of actual defamation.

If the allegedly defamed accuser can't prove defamation – they have to pay special damages to the publisher/author...

It would be one way to remove some power from…

Don't go into journalism Josh, your research of primary sources is too scary – what you really need to do is say "he said.... but she said no he's wrong". You can fill pages and pages doing that. ;-)

Uhhh... is that a compliment? Sorry, my sarcasm detector is playing…

I think it is misguided and bordering on offensive to doubt their views are anything but genuine.

I'm quite sure their views are genuine, and they are perfectly entitled to try to influence public policy. That's their right, and I will defend it. However, what's really offensive is the way…

you have to be a member of the PC to be subject to it. Bloggers and individuals generally aren't. I suspect this wasn't an option for the Listener, hence my comments about the rules not applying.

I gave the Press Council a ring to check this out. Apparently they will…

Joshua

I don't think there is any…

The media in general seem happy to hide behind notions of providing "balance" or fostering "debate" when printing the CSC stuff, but seems to be happy to ignore the duty of accuracy they owe their readers. The CSC use this to get away with calling black white.

I often wonder…

you have to be a member of the PC to be subject to it. Bloggers and individuals generally aren't. I suspect this wasn't an option for the Listener, hence my comments about the rules not applying.

Rochelle

You're in a logic loop. You can't claim defamation if you can't…

Your interest is in the efforts of the CSC. IMO they are fringe and the more attention you pay them the more credibility they get.

Yes, to an extent that's true, but there is little equivalence between the Leyland/de Freitas article appearing 70,000 copies of The Listener, and my [[http://hot-topic.co.nz/2008/04/14/ill-drown-in-my-own-tears/…

If the Listener had a legitimate grievance, why didn't they go to the Press Council instead of bringing in the heavy guns?

Is the publishing web site a member of the NZ Press Council? I presume they can only sanction members, not anyone who publishes stuff.

If the allegedly defamed accuser can't prove defamation – they have to pay special damages to the publisher/author...

It would be one way to remove some power from…

I think we are talking past each other. The risk is that journalists and bloggers are considered the same. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to want the journalist ‘rules’ built up over years to apply to bloggers.

I don’t agree. Bloggers aren’t journalists and so the…

Sorry I'm not part of your " in crowd" and in on the big secrets. If you don't want these things discussed and people to make judgements, why do you post them on a public blog?

I want people to discuss the issue. I would be better if I was…

Private Eye almost makes a point of doing it and were famous for their pursuit of Maxwell.

Well, since you brought it up... When Robert Maxwell died, I believe he had over a hundred libel cases in train and not all the defendants had proprietors with pockets as deep as…

Cheers

Paul

Legal action like this solves nothing – it doesn't achieve its goal of…

And if a media law specialist (Steven) and two former editors (Paul and I) can't mount an argument you deem credible, it might just be time to give up anyway

What? I am supposed to be so awestruck by the ranks serried against me that I just suspend my views?.

…

Sorry I'm not part of your " in crowd" and in on the big secrets. If you…

And if a media law specialist (Steven) and two former editors (Paul and I) can't mount an argument you deem credible, it might just be…

Why would you even think that? Just because someone disagrees with your POV? Or blog weariness?

What's interesting in yours and Paul's posts is a whole range of assumed unwritten 'rules' about polite behaviour between media organisations.

The…

Commercial art at that.

If I was to try the limits of a new beemer, it'd be origami

Journalists should not threaten legal action against other journalists.

That's it, really. It leaves a foul taste…

I clicked on it, then discovered, I could take one for a test spin. Better they are offering under there training program, the chance to push one to it's outer technological limits.

Cool! You could make it an art event ...

Is there anything that happened here that doesn't happen most weeks on newspapers and magazines that is especialy new and worrying?

Yes. You'll always have someone annoyed by what's been said about them — usually they're offered the…

What? A punch up at the Qantas Awards?

Seriously, I can't see the handwringing over this. Russell might think I am being naive, but an experienced writer wrote a blog column that trashed an editor's decisions and reputation, doesn't appear to have checked…

PS – so an ad for BMWs, eh? What is the world coming to!

The statistics say y'all's a bunch of wealthy mofos ...

Just unacceptable.

this legal action should keep Bell Gully busy for a while. They'll have to slapp Hard News, Kiwiblog, Poneke, Deltoid and the rest.

I bloody hope not. That would put me in a very difficult position, given that I have professional connections with publishers on both sides of the dispute…

'The people in the electorate of Selwyn deserve someone who is of immediate Cabinet material, I am able to offer that opportunity,' Mr Payne told the court."

Wait. Courts can stop people standing for election if they're not of cabinet material?

Wait! I've got a long list to develop, and…