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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | OnPoint: What gorilla?</title>
		<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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			<copyright>Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address</copyright>
			

		
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				<title>mildgreens</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=126162#post126162</link>
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						<p>That the rest of the world is talking seriously about the unintended consequences of a (legal and illegal) drug policy that creates criminals and we have a LAW COMMISSION inquiring into alcohol AND illicit drug management escapes the media AND political anal'ists. </p><p>The blind adherence to the Single Conventions on…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:45:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118914#post118914</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118914#post118914</guid>
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						<p>Totally agree with your first comment there steve c-</p><p>and yes, religion is generally organised, one way or the other...</p><p>Anyway, all this is way offthread, and interesting as it has been for me to read your insights/opinions, I'll leave it here.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:39:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118911#post118911</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118911#post118911</guid>
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						<p>No. Religion is practise of a paticular kind: it requires<br />a)worship (generally of a deity or deities &ndash; essential non-human others-religion essentially demands belief in the supernatural:)<br />b)belief in -shall we politely call it 'the necessity' or 'requirement' of adherents of the religion to perform acts of worship and the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:23:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118906#post118906</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118906#post118906</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						(sigh) comporary = *contemporary"
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:01:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118905#post118905</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118905#post118905</guid>
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						<p>o damty &ndash; 'people seeking to understand"</p><p>Edit button, edit button, wherefore art thou edit button?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:00:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118904#post118904</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118904#post118904</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I'm not sure what you mean by 'tau' steven c: if it's 'tapu' &ndash; yes, there are areas that are tapu (one of my olds said, You dont have to *believe* in tapu &ndash; it's like electricity, it works anyway. I dont *believe* in tapu as ascribed to parts of…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:58:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118898#post118898</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118898#post118898</guid>
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						<p>Words &ndash; sung or spoken*- can be karakia. Karakia affect people (it is a moot point whether they can deeply affect other animals &ndash; cetaceans for example (chk. the Gilbert Islands)- or whether it is 'just' the sound patterns.)<br />In my experience, karakia in a marae setting can be deeply…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:46:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118897#post118897</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118897#post118897</guid>
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						<p>Words &ndash; sung or spoken*- can be karakia. Karakia affect people (it is a moot point whether they can deeply affect other animals &ndash; cetaceans for example (chk. the Gilbert Islands)- or whether it is 'just' the sound patterns.)<br />In my experience, karakia in a marae setting can be deeply…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:46:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118892#post118892</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118892#post118892</guid>
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						I remember we had that good conversation here a few months ago about the debasement of karakia by christianity, and Mikaere linked to a traditional example. Was just before he helped Russell craft his marae welcome at Foocamp.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:34:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118889#post118889</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118889#post118889</guid>
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						Because I *am* a Maori, it's not impossible at all &ndash; when we are talking/working with matters Maori. I dont go along with religious matters when they come up in a tribal setting &ndash; I thought I had made that clear? Both, if they are European-originated matters, or poorly-understood /expressedmatters…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:22:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118878#post118878</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118878#post118878</guid>
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						Brought us the pox and the booze and turned our eyes toward their heaven, said my much-loved late Uncle Bill. And stole the land while we were looking-
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:27:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118876#post118876</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118876#post118876</guid>
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						Bloody missionaries.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:22:25 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118850#post118850</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118850#post118850</guid>
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						<p>No steven crawford, Maori is an ethnicity.<br />And &ndash; possibly pre-empting your strand of thought -yes, I am not the only Maori atheist. The big' religious' concept among pre-Pakeha settlement Maori (and it continues to this minute) was a complex mix between noa/tapu &amp; whakapapa/potencies (atua/hau/wairua/mauri) and it included words/places/fire/water. Te…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:53:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118827#post118827</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118827#post118827</guid>
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						<p>"In which case you're going to be leaving a lot of social problems well alone."</p><p>Why do you think so? I didnt say I wouldnt do anything about matters I find injust &ndash; just that I wont ally myself with religious people. As for it being 'a blinkered view' -…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:44:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118781#post118781</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118781#post118781</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Agree with that stance Brian &ndash; will not ally myself with christians (or ANY religious group whatsoever)however-</p></blockquote><p>In which case you're going to be leaving a lot of social problems well alone. Many causes are advanced by religious groups, and when it comes to penal reform the link with churches…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:19:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118714#post118714</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118714#post118714</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Instant fool, just add<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZmDWltBziM " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> Beer</a>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:36:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sofie Bribiesca</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118707#post118707</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118707#post118707</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>I ended up in a police holding cell after a drinking binge. The best analogy of the environment there, is an old style public toilet. If prison is anything like that, I'll rest my case.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, I suspect a public toilet could be good or bad, depending on where you…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:23:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118693#post118693</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118693#post118693</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Oh, and make fines proportional to income, duh.</p></blockquote><p>A couple of years ago I was astounded by the news that some very rich bugger wouldn't be getting the $3,000 fine that the judge would have normally given for cocaine possession, because he was so rich that it wouldn't have had…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:44:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>tussock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118691#post118691</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118691#post118691</guid>
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						<p>How to empty prisons.</p><p>1: Pardons. Yes, really, and lots of them. Go nuts.</p><p>2: Repeal prohibition. Let adults be, well, adults. Give the poor, struggling chemists something useful to sell again. There were no more drug addicts in the world when it was perfectly legal than there are now,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:21:00 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118515#post118515</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118515#post118515</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Wot, no love for the Howard League? I have no idea if they're powered by Jesus as well but they seem to be saying sensible things.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:02:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lyndon Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118514#post118514</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118514#post118514</guid>
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						<p>If you must, here's also the Prison Fellowship, but Rethinking is rather more vocal and probably wider-focused.</p><p>I think one does have to face the fact that a lot of the organisations out the doing good are Christian; in some cases this is incidental.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:52:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Just thinking</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118481#post118481</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118481#post118481</guid>
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						Can I suggest we look for the commonalities we have and accept our differences but leave them at the door. This way we can create a strong position on a selected issue we're all in agreement on?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:56:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118349#post118349</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118349#post118349</guid>
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						Agree with that stance Brian &ndash; will not ally myself with christians (or ANY religious group whatsoever)however-
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:23:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Brian Murphy</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118348#post118348</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118348#post118348</guid>
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						<p>I suspect they are also white and middle class, but it does not seem to affect the rigor they apply to looking at crime and punishment.</p><p>To me going in to bat against Garth McVicar and David Garrett counts more.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:06:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118345#post118345</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118345#post118345</guid>
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						<p>A swift look to that site Brian, brought up 2 christian organisations running the site.<br />Lost this atheist right then.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:01:55 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Brian Murphy</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118344#post118344</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118344#post118344</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>By the way, back at the beginning this discussion was about imprisonment and the way we imprison so many people here in New Zealand.</p><p>The people at The “Rethinking Crime and Punishment” project are people who apply themselves to this issue and more, restorative justice etc, and they are looking…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:44:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118343#post118343</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118343#post118343</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I'm a paper person...ur, you all know what I mean.<br />So, when I make a draft, I copy it, in paper, 3-fold (once for me, once for the van &ndash; my survival machine- and once for one of my family of the other, safer, side of the island. Annd, I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:33:04 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jake Pollock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118340#post118340</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118340#post118340</guid>
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						I do worry about that Steven. I have a Time Machine like Russell, but there's been a spate of burglaries around here recently, and I can't imagine the burglars would be kind enough to leave it behind when they nick the laptop.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:55:11 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>George  Darroch</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118316#post118316</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118316#post118316</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>My lesson is now to keep things on a dedicated backup USB stick.</p><p>Evernote is pretty cool.</p><p>I still prefer Zotero, although being wedded to memory hungry Firefox is starting to become a downside. Ironically, I lost a year of biblio when upgrading Zotero to their 2.0 web-snyc version, which…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:42:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118313#post118313</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118313#post118313</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I was slack on backup for years, but by the time I actually did have a hard drive completely die on me, I was using Time Machine as part of MacOS 10.5.</p><p>I had the computer back the next day with a new, larger drive and Time Machine had an…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:34:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jake Pollock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118301#post118301</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118301#post118301</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Although it's not a great back up tool unless you pay them US$5 a month (for reasons), <a href="http://evernote.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Evernote</a> is very useful for academic work. It's note-keeping software that is tag-able, searchable, and syncs online so you can access it from any computer with web access, as well as iPhones and…
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:45:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lucy Stewart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118258#post118258</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118258#post118258</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<a href="www.getdropbox.com">Dropbox</a> is quite nifty for back-ups, too. Sure, you only get two gigs free, and it's probably not the most secure system in the world if you're worried about business secrets &ndash; but for something like your thesis, it's perfect.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:19:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118250#post118250</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118250#post118250</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I use a nice little program called <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=c26efa36-98e0-4ee9-a7c5-98d0592d8c52&amp;displaylang=en " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> Sync Toy</a> from Microsoft (yeah, won't work on a Mac) its FREE.<br />I use it to make a copy of my main hard drive and some of the stuff I have on other drives, to a USB external drive during the night.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:01:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Stephen Judd</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118242#post118242</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118242#post118242</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Anyone who did computer support at a university in the late 80s or 90s remembers the horror and misery on the faces of graduate students who had inexplicably put everything they valued on one corrupt, unreadable floppy.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:29:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>JackElder</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118239#post118239</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118239#post118239</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I knew a zoology postgrad who ate her own homework.  At least, her own research subjects, after she'd finished with them.  </p><p>Green-lipped mussels, before you ask.</p><p>And it wasn't just the pre-electronic world that was cruel:  I saw a note up at the Wellington bus station a while ago asking…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:13:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118236#post118236</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=118236#post118236</guid>
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						I knew a zoology post grad who's homework ate his dog.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:58:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117989#post117989</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117989#post117989</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I once read a PhD thesis acknowledgements page which thanked 'my drug dealer and the Rolling Stones'.</p><p>(Sort of irrelevant, but I love trotting out that anecdote.)</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:37:13 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Caleb D&#039;Anvers</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117980#post117980</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117980#post117980</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Don't just back it up. Leave a copy in another town.</p></blockquote><p>I studied under a guy who was rumoured to have accidentally dropped his almost-completed PhD thesis down a stormwater drain. The pre-electronic world was a cruel place.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:01:31 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Dave Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117976#post117976</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117976#post117976</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Allegedly true story of a guy one of my lecturers knew. Physics PhD in early 80s working with lasers in prefab building. All but finished PhD, laser malfunctioned and burnt the building down...</p></blockquote><p>Did the frickin shark survive?</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:37:26 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>James Green</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117969#post117969</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117969#post117969</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Back up your thesis too.</p></blockquote><p>Don't just back it up. Leave a copy in another town.</p><p>Allegedly true story of a guy one of my lecturers knew. Physics PhD in early 80s working with lasers in prefab building. All but finished PhD, laser malfunctioned and burnt the building down...</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:17:53 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>George  Darroch</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117959#post117959</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117959#post117959</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Back up your thesis too. I haven't lost mine, but I lost my bibliography, which was a major blow.
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:45:08 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117957#post117957</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117957#post117957</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>&ndash; my hard drive<br />died and I have lost all my emails, contacts and<br />other data and about 5 months worth of work ...<br />...sob ...sigh <br />&ndash; I must back up <br />&ndash; I must back up... <br />&ndash; tsumi, tsumi <br />&ndash; digital tsunami...</p></blockquote><p>O shit.<br />Will email you as soon as…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:23:00 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117956#post117956</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117956#post117956</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><strong>Meanwhile back at the McVicarage...</strong><br />"I cannot contain myself..." ejaculated Mick the Vicar,<br />"I think the purple velvet restraints suit you best!"<br />purred and preened the actress...</p><p>Speaking of restraining and constraining:<br />Containers are for Shipping Goods !<br />ergo Sewers are for Kipping Bads...</p><p>...So let's just stack a whole…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:15:09 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117954#post117954</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117954#post117954</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>"Don't give me your opinion. Give me your experience."</p></blockquote><p>Excellent. As someone whose identity now eludes me once said, there are few things more useless than an opinion. Experience, on the other hand . . .</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:48:59 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>George  Darroch</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117952#post117952</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117952#post117952</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Wouldn't caves be cheaper? There's got to be a use for that tunnel boring machine once it's finished with Mt Albert.
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:13:28 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Keith Ng</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117948#post117948</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117948#post117948</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>McVicar: Containers – Our Soldiers Would Love Them, even though tents are probably easier to carry.</p></blockquote><p>I see my plan of preemptively out-McVicaring McVicar is working. My McVicar is heaps more McVicar than his McVicar.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:41:25 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>nz native</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117945#post117945</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117945#post117945</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>It seems to have been a bit of an oversight not to have invited prison industry representatives to the 'job summit'   ............. it IS the boom industry in the country at the moment.</p><p>...... as an aside I've been sitting on the information since the time of the napier police…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:09:26 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117944#post117944</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117944#post117944</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>I'm told that in the late-1970s through early 1980s it was actually useful. Most politicians stopped taking it seriously as a representation of broad public opinion in the 1990s.</p></blockquote><p>Any coincidence between the above and the ascendancy of Big Media Inc?</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:08:22 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117943#post117943</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117943#post117943</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>I'm told that in the late-1970s through early 1980s it was actually useful.</p></blockquote><p>It was, but people like Gordon Dryden brought a very different philosophy to the radio than most of today's hosts.</p><p>I frequently quote him, in the context of explaining Public Address, on what he used to tell…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:58:02 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117942#post117942</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117942#post117942</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>So this talk about expensive, or affordable (depending on your point of view), prisons, shipping containers and what not .... Isn't that just the noise the machine makes when it's warming up, just before the privatisation? <br />It is a rather lucrative business sector, after all. one of the few sectors…</p></blockquote>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:53:41 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Dinah Dunavan</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117934#post117934</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117934#post117934</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						We built our first country residence out of a shipping container. It has a ranch slider, pot belly stove with wet back, and window. We also added a removeable separate roof. Apart from the lack of insulation it was a very good basic place to stay while the main house…
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:53:17 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>George  Darroch</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117930#post117930</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117930#post117930</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>The pity is that talkback isn't an inherently bad medium. It just needs better moderators.</p><p> I'm told that in the late-1970s through early 1980s it was actually useful. Most politicians stopped taking it seriously as a representation of broad public opinion in the 1990s.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:41:43 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Dinah Dunavan</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117926#post117926</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117926#post117926</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>There should some rule that talkback radio disqualifies you from having another job in media</p></blockquote><p>Or being a (super) mayor.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:32:26 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117925#post117925</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117925#post117925</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>It's easy to dismiss talkback radio as the insane ravings of hyped morons. Which it is.</p></blockquote><p>On Saturday, I watched the unjustly buried Mike Judge satire from a couple of years ago, <em>Idiocracy</em> . It was pretty scathing stuff. I like to think that we aren't getting stupider, and that…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:24:05 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Sylvie Zlami</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117922#post117922</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117922#post117922</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>So this talk about expensive, or affordable (depending on your point of view), prisons, shipping containers and what not  .... Isn't that just the noise the machine makes when it's warming up, just before the privatisation? <br />It is a rather lucrative business sector, after all. one of the few sectors…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:07:30 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Keith Ng</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117915#post117915</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117915#post117915</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Okay, I'm not looking for those people to make important decisions, lead the country, etc. But shouldn't the Prime Minister be able to understand it?</p></blockquote><p>To be fair, it wasn't a direct quote, and I suspect that it might have been NZPA that screwed it up.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:26:42 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117914#post117914</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117914#post117914</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						BTW I do like the idea of giving welding gear to all the people in jail, I'm sure they'll make good use of it .....
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:24:23 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>James Green</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117901#post117901</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117901#post117901</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>My folks have some converted shipping containers, and apart from the obvious Laura Norder issues, it does seem like cutting off your nose to spite your face. </p><p>They need a lot of painting, and having usually been at sea, corrosion is quite an issue. Also, for living purposes, the main…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:55:12 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>George  Darroch</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117900#post117900</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117900#post117900</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>I spent part of yesterday lying in a hospital bed listening to Danny Watson and a chorus of morons on Newstalk ZB work themselves into a frenzy</p></blockquote><p>It's easy to dismiss talkback radio as the insane ravings of hyped morons. Which it is. </p><p>But what really, really, irks me about…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:50:36 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117894#post117894</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117894#post117894</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>So how can they save so much money? They can't. The $643,000 vs $380,000 figures are rigged.</p></blockquote><p>Thank you Keith. This was what I was writing about <a href="http://publicaddress.net/system/topic,1946,island_life_driving_around_mt_eden_looking_for_a_bed.sm?p=117758#post117758 " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> yesterday</a>, although in a roundabout way.<br />As soon as you hear this govt. claiming to save money you have to ask "who…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:22:14 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117891#post117891</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117891#post117891</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Keith Ng: Asking the actual questions so that other media don't have to.</p><p>No wait, something's backwards about that...</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:07:59 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Gareth Ward</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117890#post117890</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117890#post117890</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Sigh.</p><p>Putting aside the (highly valid and needed) discussions around WHY we have such a burgeoning prison population, the point about an immediate need for prison beds at efficient cost very much stands.<br />And properly designed cells using containers on existing prison land does seem a valid possible response to…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:04:41 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Brian Murphy</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117887#post117887</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117887#post117887</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>There was a "Drivers of crime" conference recently which I believe came up with some ideas about that.</p><p>But having been at what was billed as a "Debate" between David Garrett and Kim Workman about the ACT 3 strikes policy, it seems the ACT view is that we have tried…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:56:43 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Just thinking</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117885#post117885</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117885#post117885</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Collins has answered that already. Cut 300 Police cars!
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:54:11 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117882#post117882</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117882#post117882</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						What I can't get over is that no one is asking "what can we do to make sure that fewer people end up in prison?"
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:42:17 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Just thinking</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117880#post117880</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117880#post117880</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>The NZDF used containers for a mobile medical unit in PNG after the Tsunami. Also used in Afghanistan.</p><p>Prisoners/humans need higher standards for accomodation and there won't be too much money for an Architech on this project I'm sure. </p><p>Prisoners don't play well with others and are likely to bang…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:09:20 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117879#post117879</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117879#post117879</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>The thought that the gummint is cutting funding on education (adult education, enviro schools), in favour of building more prisons is just a touch depressing. What happened to the debate to alternatives to prison?</p></blockquote><p>At this rate, the country's going to face an ambulance shortage &ndash; they'll all be @…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:56:57 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Lyndon Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117877#post117877</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117877#post117877</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Speaking of which, make that McVicar link <a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0906/S00248.htm;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0906/S00248.htm;</a> he got published in the wrong place.
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:54:21 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117875#post117875</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117875#post117875</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>These sound more like humanity's faithful companions than signs of the end of days.</p><p>See Ambrose Bierce:</p><blockquote><p>FOOL, n. A person who pervades the domain of intellectual speculation and diffuses himself through the channels of moral activity. He is omnific, omniform, omnipercipient, omniscience, omnipotent. He it was who invented letters,…</p></blockquote>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:52:20 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Alastair Jamieson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117874#post117874</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117874#post117874</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						He'll just kind of saunter into town, hardly anyone will notice, and by the time they do the damage will have been done...
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:50:23 +1200</pubDate>
			</item>
		
			<item>
				<title>Alastair Jamieson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117872#post117872</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117872#post117872</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Just wondering now what the others are.</p></blockquote><p>Laziness is another.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:49:22 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117871#post117871</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117871#post117871</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Hope you are feeling better and back into action, Russell.</p></blockquote><p>Feeling better, yes. Back into action would be rather overstating things.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:48:54 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Brian Murphy</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117870#post117870</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117870#post117870</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Russell, I think you have the first horseman correctly identified there.</p><p>Just wondering now what the others are.</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:43:23 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Kari Hammond</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117869#post117869</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117869#post117869</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>i just love the cost per bed line designed to stir up some public furor.<br />p.s. check this out for good use of shipping containers (and its local)<br /><a href="http://www.port-a-bach.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.port-a-bach.com</a></p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:42:41 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Lyndon Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117868#post117868</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117868#post117868</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						McVicar: <a href="http://scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0906/S00229.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Containers – Our Soldiers Would Love Them</a>, even though tents are probably easier to carry.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:40:16 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Geoff Lealand</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117866#post117866</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117866#post117866</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Hope you are feeling better and back into action, Russell. These bright and sunny winter mornings are uplifting for us all.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:32:50 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Geoff Lealand</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117865#post117865</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117865#post117865</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>The thought that the gummint is cutting funding on  education (adult education, enviro schools), in favour of building more prisons is just a touch depressing.  What happened to the debate to alternatives to prison?</p><p>Incidentally, does anyone else find the ad to the left of this screen (the flashing one)…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:29:41 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117864#post117864</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117864#post117864</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>“Cost per bed” had nothing to do with beds, or cells. It's just the total cost of the prison divided by the prisoners it's designed to hold.</p></blockquote><p>I'm staggered at how many people don't understand this very basic point.</p><p>I spent part of yesterday lying in a hospital bed listening…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:27:43 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Danyl Mclauchlan</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117863#post117863</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117863#post117863</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						My concern in more with the longevity of the shipping containers; if they cost $380 k per cell but only last twenty years then compared to a $600 k standard cell that lasts 80 years that seems like a pretty bad deal.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:02:13 +1200</pubDate>
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			<item>
				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117862#post117862</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-what-gorilla/?p=117862#post117862</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:02:13 +1200</pubDate>
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