http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP9_kkzfN-w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLU9nyFSA

The time of renewal is at hand, mofos...

Elsewhere..

Graham Reid's paying for our tax cuts? Does he know?

The measures will have the effect of broadly reinstating the tax cuts that National cancelled because of the recession, and funding them from elsewhere.

Elsewhere..

What bugs me about all the discussions of the details is nobody is asking the question "Why should we want to pay less tax?"

Everyone is fixated on where cuts will come from – and not on how they will be paid for (oh look, Keith has it covered) or…

... but he is wary of what is to come.

Well, of course he is. He doesn't want any changes that will cost his members one cent, and he knows that such changes are warranted.

But let's go from the headline to the lede

What I quoted was from the…

For the Christchurch real estate, I think he's pretty much about right, or if you shop around will be.

Asking $380000
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-me-property/Residential-property/Houses-for-sale/auction-269615467.htm

CV $456000
http://ratesinfo.ccc.govt.nz/PropertyDetails.aspx?RateAccountNum=2042125

This is not…

Property Investors Federation's verdict: "it's nice".

Compared to getting whacked with a capital gains and property tax, I'm sure it is. But let's go from the headline to the lede:

The vice-president of the Property Investors Federation is relieved that most housing tax options were ruled out in Prime Minister…

15% is a pain – one now needs to divide by 7.6666666....

Or you could multiply by 0.15?

(edit – wait, no it's probably not that simple)

(edit 2 – yeah, I'm being an idiot)

Of course, it might not necessarily be 15%. They might find a nice roundish number…

Excuse me?

Your implication that the argument that the new tax policy continues the favouring of property investors is invalidated by Key's slight nod in the right direction is just bogus.

Property Investors Federation's verdict: "it's nice".

changing the actual rate isn't that big a thing – though one of the nice things about 12.5% is that one simply divides by 9 to calculate how much GST is included in something – 15% is a pain – one now…

Sheesh. Can we have some intellectual honesty, please?

Excuse me? The young and the poor don't get tax benefits from paper depreciation of investment property – do they? Serious question, so I'd rather appreciate a serious answer.

BTW, before we all decamp to Australia, do you still pay fairly substantial…

If Labour were still in power, and had made the same changes (not completely out of the question, IMO) we would be hearing nonstop that A) the increase in GST will lead to a reduction in discretionary spending, and thus harm…

He makes some pertinent points, but his powers of deduction are not all that very good.

He's an economist. You don't need to get your expectations too high.

He makes some pertinent points, but his powers of deduction are not all that very good.

which leaves me wondering why "the young and the poor" should be that upset about the depreciation rort being done away with?

Sheesh. Can we have some intellectual honesty, please?

Remember Key's pre-election migration lament? "Wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones"? Doesn't quite ring true now yeah? Employment's growing strongly again in Australia, expect to see PLT departures pick up again. Hickey could well be correct.

Did Bernard Hickey just say on NatRad that Key is 'governing for the old and the rich, not the young and the poor'?

I wouln't be at all surpsied, Hillary, which leaves me wondering why "the young and the poor" should be that upset about the depreciation rort being done…

It is the underlying premise of all the debates that we should pay less tax. But the reality is that tax is what pays for the…

It tells us this government is in character the creature of the dismal and dreary double dipper of…

His numbers were convincing, that this tax break is for 100,000 landlords at the expense of the rest of NZ.

If you're in opposition right now, maybe, just maybe you want a reasoned and cohesive policy to work for the disadvantaged/disaffected. A point of difference, rebranding…

TWG estimates upping GST to 15% will be worth $2.89b. 35% of this will be borne by the bottom 50% (by income) of the population.

Not being a tax specialist, by any stretch, I'm missing something here. What % should the bottom 50% pay?

Agree with Bernard H that the…

When you think about it, those on higher incomes spend more actual cash on goods and services

?

WTH?

Jeez, that's a bit rough, Craig. Particularly if you're not going to say why he's wrong...

Fair enough. I (mostly) agree with Hickey's substantive arguments against the Rentier Welfare State, but the "leave the country" column he reheats several times a year isn't "passionate". It's theatre.

I quite like the odd bit of passionate economics providing it is not pimply Randian bollocks.

I liked it too, Cecelia, very much. I've often thought that there rather ought to be some kind of counterbalance to the debate we get from the property council et al., because there's a…

Economically illiterate, me, but I was kind of thrilled by Bernard Hickey's passionate article in the Herald today.

Meh... As I've said elsewhere, I've got a lot of time for Bernard — and you're certainly not going to die waiting to know what he thinks on any subject — but…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10625085

Also, don't you realise this is the internet? Specifically the NZ blogosphere? You don't admit that you may have been working under false assumptions – you grow increasingly hostile and tangential to the mounting body of evidence.

Nah. I'm a respectable print columnst. We don't do that. We just make…

So they're going to halve the bottom tax-rate?

They can. Or they can create a tax-free threshold. But they point is that, actually, they have enough money to afford this *and* aligning the rate at 30%, which they have ants in their pants about.

The scapegoating of residential ppty investors (minor rentiers) is a wee feint to disguise that nothing is effectively happening as regard effective “tax reform”.

If the Nat (coalition) can manage the economy and bring about sustainable…

I am sure that when John Keys talks about hard working NZers being able…

Although my rough guess is that most people would pay about the same total individual tax under that model, just in slightly cleaner, more transparent ways and it would remove weird property and trust distortions

One hopes that'd be the point; and if this – or any – government achieves…

If they do that – 30% rate alignment paid for with depreciation changes…

Oh – and re:regressivity of GST, try this:

* According to the IRD income distribution data (so income tax only) the top 10% earn 33.5% of income.
* According to the TWG's GST paper (which was supported by analysis from Treasury, which did GST impact analysis based on HES data),…

But GST isn't a fixed proportion of income across the income spectrum. People on higher incomes spend more of their money on things that don't attract GST, so GST is at least mildly regressive. Right?

Sure, if we ignore this, *and* we had a flat tax *and* flat welfare…

The decline in income taxes will be sufficient to compensate those who are not eligible for any benefit – as the goal is to set the GST rate + income tax rate to the same level as it is now anyway, so that labour income is taxed in exactly the…

Lucy,

The decline in income taxes will be sufficient to compensate those who are not eligible for any benefit – as the goal is to set the GST rate + income tax rate to the…

If we move away from borrowing and saving – which should only be on the basis of "lumpy consumption" (damn it I need to buy a dishwasher, but once I've got it I've got it for 5 years) and future income changes (I'm a student, I will earn…

The easiest way to do it for most of them is by altering benefit levels in advance of the CPI flow through of a 2.5 point rise in…

2) Most of the compensation will simply occur through the increase in benefit and WFF thresholds and rates.

And those of us working for low-ish incomes who haven't sprogged are compensated....how, precisely?

I'm lucky enough to be moving into a well-compensated graduate job; if I was in the situation I…

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure if I'd be comforted by an intertemporal tax refund. There's probably a time value of money argument in there, but mostly, it's the fact that not even economists can pay rent with it.

Re:Benefit level changes, I've been trying…

He has said he'll change WFF and benefits with regards to…

Edit: Sorry, I follow now – the across-the-board cut required to give a $1b back to the lower 50% would cost a lot more than…

And what about the 'north of $40' for anyone on the average working wage that was promised during the election campaign, canceled in favour of last year's tax cuts for the…