Public Address | Cafe | OnPoint: Two wallops of wonk, with a side of waffle https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96895#post96895 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96895#post96895 Fri, 06 Mar 2009 06:33:34 +1300 Paul Robeson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96840#post96840 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96840#post96840

Which is what happens when you invite only rich business-owners to these sorts of things: complete obliviousness to how it looks from the other end.

The unions were at the conference, too. Out in force, in fact.

Are we talking about the very public and chummy media focused face of…

]]> Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:54:29 +1300 John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96287#post96287 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96287#post96287 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:43:15 +1300 Gareth Ward https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96235#post96235 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96235#post96235 Re the 9-day fortnight – after reading this article, I'm not sure our employment legislation allows for it to be imposed?

That article outlines how HP has ordered 5% pay cuts globally – but in NZ, it's for the employee to accept that. And you can't tell them that they,…

]]> Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:34:13 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96170#post96170 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96170#post96170 Your Views styles again, right? ]]> Sun, 01 Mar 2009 18:25:16 +1300 George Darroch https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96169#post96169 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96169#post96169 I don't think the Prime Minister has gone far enough. These are radical times, and we are a nation of DOers.

I want him to suggest a 2 day working week, with the other 3 days paid for by the Government. That way, we could reduce productive capacity and no-one…

]]> Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:42:49 +1300 Kerry Weston https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96166#post96166 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96166#post96166 Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:07:18 +1300 Dinah Dunavan https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96156#post96156 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96156#post96156

why are we using so called experts... to try to dig us out of a hole, when a lot of them will be the bastards that created it in the first place?

It has to be the one thought that keeps popping to the front of my mind too.

Why…

]]> Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:54:49 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96152#post96152 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96152#post96152 But that group was making decisions for other people, not themselves. I feel they were trying to find solutions for themselves because it was big business that they operate. I don't think they care about the bread and butter stuff (read lay offs) because that is just fodder and we… ]]> Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:08:40 +1300 Sam F https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96151#post96151 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96151#post96151 I invite anyone somehow wowed by the Cape-to-Bluff Cyclebahn initiative to inspect a map of the Auckland cycle 'network'. Looks like Technicolor Morse code.

I'm predicting that if this comes to pass, there'll be a few showy mini-flyovers for ministers or local government wallahs to get their pictures taken on,…

]]> Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:02:52 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96148#post96148 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96148#post96148 Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:20:42 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96147#post96147 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96147#post96147 Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:15:32 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96146#post96146 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96146#post96146 Don't you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc89J7OfBXw

]]> Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:31:10 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96144#post96144 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96144#post96144 Well, Sofie, were you really expecting the world's problems to melt away in a gust of cinnamon-scented unicorn farts? (Yes, the writers room at the Daily Show will be getting paid for that.) It's a goody innit Craig, and no, I didn't expect anything much at all with this summit… ]]> Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:17:59 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96133#post96133 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96133#post96133 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:27:57 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96132#post96132 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96132#post96132 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:12:10 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96121#post96121 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96121#post96121 gems do we have in todays throwing up alongside,taxpayer funding, public private partnership and John Key's Minister for Tourisms big idea,?(oh that's right,isn't he the Minister of Tourism?) ]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:43:27 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96119#post96119 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96119#post96119

(My naivete and my cynicism are having a ding-dong battle.)

I feel your pain — picked a really bad time to simultaneously give up smoking (for real this time: got the patches, lozenges and the Hammer of Loving Self-Correction to hand!), clean up the diet, and temper one's cynicism with…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:01:56 +1300 Alastair Jamieson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96118#post96118 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96118#post96118

...but it all just seems so fucking lame.

Whomever came up with today's headline for Audrey Young's Herald story "Jobs summit throws up three big ideas" seems similarly unimpressed.

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:59:56 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96114#post96114 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96114#post96114 Here's part of a solution from an American venture capital background:
Lew Burton: On the hunt for a Kiwi Google

In regards to Fran O & others, NZ has had little or no trouble attracting foreign investment. The problem is, it's often been of the wrong sort – too few of the…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:21:47 +1300 Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96111#post96111 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96111#post96111 Craig,

I understand your cynicism re "the vision thang"[sic] but it all just seems so fucking lame. One day off a fortnight and a bike-path... With the current shit-storm of meltdowns, foreclosures & job losses it would seem to be a good time to envisage something a little bolder.
(My naivete…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:13:14 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96108#post96108 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96108#post96108 Check the Job Summit's beehive page for a list of the "top 20" ideas and powerpoint listings of all the rest for each workshop.

Much of it sounds like the Act manifesto and their MoU with National. All those "impact statements" on regulations would seem to require extra bureaucrats or…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:56:17 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96107#post96107 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96107#post96107

And Liam Dann cynically dissects the rugby metaphor.

Oh, let's very cynically dissect what the brains trust of the NZ Herald op-ed roster has contributed to meaningful discourse on the subject. The words "Sweet Fuck All" come to mind — if you took that particular organ's advice we'd all be…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:48:13 +1300 Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96103#post96103 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96103#post96103 I, for one, am feeling distinctly underwhelmed at the results of this summit for jobs – a 9-day fortnight and a bike-path???

Surely, given the status of the majority of the participants/invitees, they could have come up with something a little more substantial or (how's this for naive?) visionary perhaps?…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:00:21 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96102#post96102 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96102#post96102 Sasha, dunno :-)

Here's something interesting though:

http://www.realhelpnow.gov.uk/

and some background

http://andrewlewin.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/innovation-v-transformation/

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:33:07 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96101#post96101 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96101#post96101

Reserve Bank Governor Dr Bollard told the job summit that the global recession is thought by some to be the "biggest destruction of global wealth ever".

He said the amount of money lost was in the trillions of dollars and that if one dollar notes were strung together, they would…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:38:39 +1300 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96100#post96100 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96100#post96100 Have we got any recent statistics on the numbers of employees being put onto short time (reduced hours) or lay-off (no hours but not dismissed), either by agreement or by contract? Or even agreed pay-cuts?

Here in the UK the above solutions have become incredibly popular as you might expect…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:33:23 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96098#post96098 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96098#post96098 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:18:28 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96097#post96097 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96097#post96097

Taxpayers are being asked to take on some of the risk, in exchange for businesses not laying workers off right away. The Act party and the dryer Nats must be spitting.

I am *not* against the spending of tax payers' money. Just not on such an unproven idea. I am…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:16:30 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96096#post96096 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96096#post96096 And Fran O'Sullivan manages to distort yesterday's gathering into a cry for easier foreign investment, conveniently ignoring the impact of that on our current indebtedness. To a woman with a hammer, I guess..

Business participants at the summit were clear that Key must keep his Government focused on what really matters:…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:10:26 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96093#post96093 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96093#post96093 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:37:16 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96089#post96089 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96089#post96089 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:25:27 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96088#post96088 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96088#post96088 And Liam Dann cynically dissects the rugby metaphor.

But in general yesterday's results looked more like a throw the ball to Jonah and yell:"run Jonah, run" approach to saving the economy than any kind of rolling maul as called for by Key.

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:22:33 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96086#post96086 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96086#post96086 4 Day weeks....(no discussion allowed on your last post, Keith)

Of course, if the alternative is that the business goes bust, leaving them and their workmates jobless, then maybe this is the less shitty of two evils.

Maybe. France has tried the 4 day week idea. Can't say it has…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:21:02 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96085#post96085 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96085#post96085 Sacha & DCRed:

I think it's fair enough to ask if any plans were revealed in passing yesterday to make up for canning the tax credits (which was by edict). Or do our new leaders think our economy consists of farms, banks and construction projects?

Yes, and real estate agents.

Everyone else…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:18:14 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96083#post96083 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96083#post96083 John Armstrong has a thoughtful story about those bureaucrats.

It looks like much of this change will take place below the radar. The less information available to opponents to build a broad picture of what is going on, the easier it will be to force change. Programmes will end and staff…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:07:53 +1300 dc_red https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96078#post96078 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96078#post96078

Or do our new leaders think our economy consists of farms, banks and construction projects?

Yes, and real estate agents.

Everyone else is a non-frontline bureaucrat who produces no wealth.

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:33:35 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96072#post96072 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96072#post96072

innovation and entrepreneurship doesn't come from prime minsterial edict

Keith, you side-stepped the part of the question about R&D. I think it's fair enough to ask if any plans were revealed in passing yesterday to make up for canning the tax credits (which was by edict). Or do our new…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:33:17 +1300 Blake Monkley https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96071#post96071 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96071#post96071 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:30:13 +1300 icehawk https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96065#post96065 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96065#post96065

The suggestion is that the government funds the 10th day *in return for a commitment that there be no redundancies for a certain period*. So they get a one-off 10% reduction in labour costs, but then they're stuck with that cost, even if, say, their revenue falls 30%.

The more…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:48:30 +1300 icehawk https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96062#post96062 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96062#post96062

If the government's going into the business of make work schemes, surely there are endless opportunities to address actual issues that are already plaguing the country, rather than making sh*t up?

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

If they want Keynesian stimulus then they could do it.…

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:29:32 +1300 stephen walker https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96056#post96056 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96056#post96056 i agree with Alastair.


(hi Alastair...enps)

]]> Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:11:06 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96048#post96048 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96048#post96048

One of the things I enjoy about NZ. Obama builds a Maglev from LA to Vegas and Key builds a cycle track from Bluff to the Cape.
It makes yer smile.

The colony of Western Australia only signed up for Australian statehood on the condition that the trans-Australian railway be…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:52:12 +1300 Alastair Jamieson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96041#post96041 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96041#post96041

We aren't going to destroy the planet. We can lead to changes that destroy human civilisation, but the planet will continue to evolve and will chew us up and spit us out as it goes along.

I don't buy this attitude – or really understand it. I tend to think…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:06:54 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96040#post96040 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96040#post96040 As for the politicians and the job summit – how come it's okay for the commoners to be at the mercy of market forces, but dinosaur car makers, poined-by-their-own-greed banks and uncompetitive whiteware manufacturers who relocated overseas are worthy of bail-outs, yet it's not on to protect NZ jobs -… ]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:03:21 +1300 Alastair Jamieson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96038#post96038 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96038#post96038

James Lovelock, who now believes it's too late to save the world

I prefer George Monbiot's view, detailed in his book 'Heat', that it's still (just) possible to avoid global climatic disaster by drastically reducing greenhouse gas emissions. But, the only way I see that this can happen in time is…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:58:06 +1300 Kerry Weston https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96036#post96036 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96036#post96036

Man, you're a party pooper!

and I haven't even mentioned how that big, ruddy country next door keeps getting hotter and running out of water.... won't be long till hordes of Ockers start migrating this way, mate!

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:47:56 +1300 Simon Grigg https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96034#post96034 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96034#post96034

The 3,700 jobs figure (probably) doesn't mean that they'll hire 3,700 burly men with shovels and pickaxes.

One of the things I enjoy about NZ. Obama builds a Maglev from LA to Vegas and Key builds a cycle track from Bluff to the Cape.

It makes yer smile.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:41:06 +1300 Sam F https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96032#post96032 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96032#post96032

We aren't going to destroy the planet. We can lead to changes that destroy human civilisation, but the planet will continue to evolve and will chew us up and spit us out as it goes along.

Pretty much how I'd see it as well. The Earth's ecosphere will find an…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:37:23 +1300 Logan O'Callahan https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96028#post96028 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96028#post96028 Heard Lovelock on the radio last year talking to Kim Hill. I refer to that interview whenever someone says we are going to destroy the planet.

We aren't going to destroy the planet. We can lead to changes that destroy human civilisation, but the planet will continue to evolve and…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:26:53 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96027#post96027 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96027#post96027

If Lovelock's even half right, there won't be much of a damned world to trade with.

Man, you're a party pooper!

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:21:27 +1300 Kerry Weston https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96026#post96026 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96026#post96026 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:10:52 +1300 Alastair Jamieson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96025#post96025 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96025#post96025 I'm completely underwhelmed by the results of the 'do-fest.' If the government's going into the business of make work schemes, surely there are endless opportunities to address actual issues that are already plaguing the country, rather than making sh*t up?

One example (and my particular concern) is the natural environment,…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:42:15 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96024#post96024 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96024#post96024

And if you put three experts on economic stimulus in a room, you'll get three totally different solutions to the problem, all of which will contradict. How many people are at the summit?

Heh, depends on what you mean by contradict. The three opinions that you're likely to get are:…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:40:06 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96023#post96023 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96023#post96023

It is if they pay third-world wages. $2.50 an hour? Is that the fat-cats future vision of New Zealand?

I think it's a bit premature to use those back of a napkin figures to construde wages. The 3,700 jobs figure (probably) doesn't mean that they'll hire 3,700 burly men with…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:35:40 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96019#post96019 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96019#post96019

Keith, is there been any comments from the PM about the role of innovation, entrepreneurship and R&D at the job summit?

Like what? That it's O for oarsome? 8-)

Sorry, just mean that innovation and entrepreneurship doesn't come from prime minsterial edict, and that talking about it, or demanding that there…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:18:49 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96018#post96018 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96018#post96018

My estimate is based on the concept that if a firm has 10 workers, they need 100 person days of work a fortnight to keep them productively occupied.

If sales only allow for 90 person days, then they would normally need to lose a worker.

If instead they put the…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:15:48 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96016#post96016 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96016#post96016

Which is what happens when you invite only rich business-owners to these sorts of things: complete obliviousness to how it looks from the other end.

The unions were at the conference, too. Out in force, in fact.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:08:52 +1300 icehawk https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96015#post96015 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96015#post96015 No-one else seems to have said the obviously ultra-cynical point, so I thought I would:

A govt is elected with some of its MPs saying privately that they'd love to have some more fundamental reform of the labour market, but that they can't do that because you have to "swallow…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:08:07 +1300 David Slack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96004#post96004 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96004#post96004 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:06:17 +1300 David Slack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96002#post96002 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=96002#post96002

BTW, has David Slack been invited to discuss his plan for a trans-Waitemata harbour transparent tube travelator link?
.....
(Precise figures always make it look as if you thought about it).

That's probably why I never get asked to elaborate. I generally round things to the nearest billion.

I actually…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:01:13 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95999#post95999 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95999#post95999 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:39:38 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95997#post95997 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95997#post95997

Ignoring the characterisation, I note that they met a few days ago.

Please do, Sacha. Just as I'm sure Andrew Little wouldn't take much notice of anyone who would characterise him as a VRWC beard. I'm rather sceptical about how useful either gathering really will be, but it's not something…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:35:55 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95986#post95986 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95986#post95986

they met a few days ago

There was a bit of grumbling in the sector (including myself) that because there was only a tiny budget for this meeting, they could only invite 60 people from the hundreds who would have liked to attend. Which, on the positive side, shows a…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:43:58 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95984#post95984 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95984#post95984 Ignoring the characterisation, I note that they met a few days ago. Thanks , I note from your note that it seemed a very open discussion for anyone to read up on also. :) ]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:39:03 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95983#post95983 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95983#post95983

I thought the "community sector" were having their own little closed-door elitist gab-fest today?

Ignoring the characterisation, I note that they met a few days ago.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:26:52 +1300 icehawk https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95981#post95981 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95981#post95981 "Keith, is there been any comments from the PM about the role of innovation, entrepreneurship and R&D at the job summit?"

I'm sure the PM will talk about how important innovation, entrepreneurship and R&D are. So what? He has talked that way before. He just has never match his govt's actions to…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:19:34 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95978#post95978 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95978#post95978

Eddie: cherry-picking simply demonstrates your own intellectual dishonesty.

So does making generalisations and getting pissy when someone points out that they're not true, Idiot/Savant. By the way, I thought the "community sector" were having their own little closed-door elitist gab-fest today?

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:07:12 +1300 icehawk https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95975#post95975 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95975#post95975 Keith: "3,700 jobs isn't something to be pooh-poohed at."

3700 jobs at $2.50 an hour *is* something to be pooh-poohed at. If you want to have a real effect, you've got to spend real money.

The true question is: will the govt spend a significant % of GDP on economic…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:58:31 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95970#post95970 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95970#post95970 BTW, has David Slack been invited to discuss his plan for a trans-Waitemata harbour transparent tube travelator link?

I reckon that could employ 2768 people for 34 months at a cost of only $94,580,123. The resulting tourist income (what other city has a subsea transparent tube travelator) will be at…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:44:25 +1300 Thomas Johnson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95967#post95967 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95967#post95967

And in the meantime, the key point – that the participants in the conferance represent a particular worldview, which is oblivious to the actual effects of their "no lose" solutions – is completely ignored...

Isn't it a Jobs Summit?

Remind me again, don't many people in NZ work at businesses?

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:36:23 +1300 Eddie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95966#post95966 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95966#post95966 "The participants?" All of them? Andrew Little to Stephen Tindall to Charles Finny all have the same worldview? And EVERY business owner that was invited subscribes to neoliberal economics?

You've proved my point rather nicely, I/S.

And I don't think its worth engaging any further, cos you're sure as hell…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:32:22 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95963#post95963 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95963#post95963 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:23:53 +1300 Eddie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95957#post95957 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95957#post95957 Oh FFS, I/S.

I'm not being intellectually dishonest, unless pointing out a massive generalisation that you make is intellectual dishonesty. You said:

Which is what happens when you invite only rich business-owners to these sorts of things: complete obliviousness to how it looks from the other end.

ONLY. Not most.…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:08:05 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95955#post95955 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95955#post95955 I should add that the business representatives form a coherant faction in the ways that others do not, with the result that their worldview and ideology is going to dominate the conversation. In a real sense, the others are simply window-dressing, there to make up the numbers and hide the… ]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:03:04 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95952#post95952 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95952#post95952 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:56:35 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95945#post95945 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95945#post95945 Eddie: cherry-picking simply demonstrates your own intellectual dishonesty.

The majority of the guests are representatives of the business community. Here's the Herald's assessment:

The guest list, released on Monday night, includes only three people from the community sector: Auckland City Missioner Diane Robertson, Salvation Army social services director Campbell Roberts…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:35:20 +1300 Gareth Ward https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95943#post95943 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95943#post95943 9-day fortnight WITHOUT Govt compensation must be the Finance Minister's dream!
Option A: 10 staff, make one redundant – that one has to be paid welfare
Option B: 10 staff, all take a 10% pay cut – sweet! No need for Gummint to pay out and largely similar tax take.…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:28:02 +1300 andrew llewellyn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95941#post95941 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95941#post95941 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:21:21 +1300 Eddie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95938#post95938 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95938#post95938 I/S:

Rich business-owners like (list from Beehive website):

Jeremy Baker
Industry Training Federation

Len Brown
Manukau City

Dr Rod Carr (SGL)
University of Canterbury

Andrew Casidy
Finsec [Financial sector union]

Leith Comer
Te Puni Kōkiri

Peter Conway (SGL)
New Zealand Council of Trade Unions

John Forbes
Opotiki District Council

Dave…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:19:47 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95935#post95935 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95935#post95935 Keith:

Prominent right-winger says, that now is "obviously" not the time to be adding climate change-related costs to the economy. Gets shot down by the chair.

Could carbon footprints replace the nuke-free policy as a sticking point in US free-trade talks? Were that to happen, I'd be interested to see…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:18:37 +1300 Eddie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95933#post95933 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95933#post95933 In fact:

Blake, here:

http://beehive.govt.nz/feature/summit

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:14:46 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95931#post95931 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95931#post95931

So if your aim is to try and prevent damaging job losses in the short term, it does make sense to target the sectors where the jobs are at risk, even if they're not where there might be the most compelling public good arguments.

Well yes. But there are some…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:14:17 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95929#post95929 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95929#post95929 A problem is starting to emerge. Like the four-day week, it's being presented as a no-loss option. Employers get to reduce their labour costs and keep going, while employees get to keep their jobs and have time off for "leisure" or training. At a cost of 20% of their pay.… ]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:12:08 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95927#post95927 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95927#post95927

3,700 jobs isn't something to be pooh-poohed at

It is if they pay third-world wages. $2.50 an hour? Is that the fat-cats future vision of New Zealand?

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:10:56 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95924#post95924 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95924#post95924

A cycleway the length of NZ! Be still my heart!

But will it go over the auckland Harbour bridge?

Anyway, as the people funding the talkfest, aren't we *entitled* to know who said what?

Seconded. in this case, using Chatham house just seems like an attempt to avoid accountability.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:08:34 +1300 Eddie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95919#post95919 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95919#post95919 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:01:06 +1300 Eddie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95918#post95918 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95918#post95918 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:00:36 +1300 Blake Monkley https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95914#post95914 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95914#post95914 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:53:04 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95912#post95912 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95912#post95912

Conveniently enough, the Manhattan Project employed 130,000 people

Yes, and once we had the atom bombs, we wouldn't need to spend anything on defence until someone invented a working ray gun.

I think we should start now. Tauranga would be great for the test site.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:48:28 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95909#post95909 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95909#post95909 My estimate is based on the concept that if a firm has 10 workers, they need 100 person days of work a fortnight to keep them productively occupied.

If sales only allow for 90 person days, then they would normally need to lose a worker.

If instead they put the…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:46:41 +1300 David Slack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95907#post95907 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95907#post95907 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:44:59 +1300 JackElder https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95905#post95905 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95905#post95905

A cycleway the length of NZ! Be still my heart!

Bet it still won't go over the Auckland harbour bridge, though.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:42:18 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95903#post95903 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95903#post95903 caycos/stuart:

In relation to the 9 day working week or some other reduction in hours thing – can they guarantee that workers won't be expected to still do the same amount of work in less time?

Isn't there some legal requirement that the hours allocated have to be reasonable for…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:26:34 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95900#post95900 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95900#post95900 Rich still:

- as already pointed out on the Herald, the 3,700 workers on the cycle way would make no more than $2.50 an hour over two years.

– the working population of NZ is around 2.1 million – the cycleway would employ just over 0.1% of that, so it's…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:18:45 +1300 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95898#post95898 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95898#post95898 Rich:

- the government figure of $40mln per 10,000 workers for the 9 day fortnight is about right. However this only "saves" 1,000 jobs at a cost of $40,000 annually a job.

Is the 1:10 ratio your estimate? It's kinda conservative. But put it this way, the dole will cost…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:15:11 +1300 Eddie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95896#post95896 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95896#post95896 Re the Chatham House rule:

Graeme, you know very well that 'affiliation' in that context means what organisation the speaker is from. Or, at the very least, information that allows the person to be identified. Given that at least half of the participants are 'prominent right wingers' its not much…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:08:09 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95895#post95895 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95895#post95895 Unemployment benefits of 80% for 2 years, for the mooted 125,000 people, would cost about $8 billion.

If we confiscated the wealth of the NBR rich list ($44 billion), we could keep that going for 5 years.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:04:36 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95894#post95894 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95894#post95894

That was a Godwinable offence. I'm pleading guilty in the hope of diversion.

Mr Darroch: Learn a coin trick or two. Some dance moves. If all else fails, a punch in the junk is about as diverting as it gets. :)

I'm no expert in economic stimulus but...

Here's the…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:59:57 +1300 George Darroch https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95891#post95891 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95891#post95891 Here's an idea. The Government nationalises all housing. That way, people will be able to take cuts of 2-3 days per week, not having to pay rent or mortgages.

Problem solved, right?

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:52:04 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95887#post95887 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95887#post95887 Keith's second post from the summit, covering the four-day week discussion. ]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:40:53 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95886#post95886 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95886#post95886

manufacturing jobs are bloody hard to get back once they've gone

Because the businesses were unsustainable and only kept going by inertia?

Face it, manufacturing most consumer and lower end industrial goods in NZ (or any other developed state) is never going to be an economic proposition. We have to…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:40:14 +1300 Stuart Coats https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95885#post95885 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95885#post95885 @caycos
Snap!

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:38:49 +1300 Stuart Coats https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95884#post95884 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95884#post95884 As an employee I have concerns about the floated 4-day week (or the 9 day fortnight).
I haven't done any research but the implication is that, apart from the 20% pay cut as outlined in Keith's post, the same amount of work would be expected to be done in less…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:38:11 +1300 caycos https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95883#post95883 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95883#post95883 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:35:25 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95881#post95881 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95881#post95881

That's why we're probably not going to see any economic rescue packages which focus on reducing hospital waiting queues for the elderly. Little economic stimulus, not much economic flow on effects, sorry elderly.

I was talking last night to an old friend in Wellington who works in the union movement.…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:26:32 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95879#post95879 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95879#post95879 That's not revealing anything. Everyone there is a National or ACT supporter and Keith hasn't said which. It doesn't say you can't differentiate between prominent right-winger and right-wing nonentity.

Anyway, as the people funding the talkfest, aren't we *entitled* to know who said what?

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:22:01 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95878#post95878 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95878#post95878 Back to the rule :-)

When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed.

vs.

Prominent right-winger says

Just…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:16:03 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95875#post95875 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95875#post95875

Call me silly, but wouldn't it be easier to just spend the money in areas that need it – smaller classes, more doctors and nurses, housing improvements, etc. Of course that would be less efficient in helping those that really need the cash – said Friends Of John.

I'm no…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:56:16 +1300 Max Call https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95874#post95874 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95874#post95874 I know our school could definitely use some spending to bring it into the new millenium
carpet, curtains, furniture in classroom (very old, worn and stained – or in the case of curtains, sometimes non-existent – not so good for projecting...cannot see projection in bright sunny classrooms!)
technology – mounted…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:53:22 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95872#post95872 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95872#post95872 Their innumeracy is laughable:

– as already pointed out on the Herald, the 3,700 workers on the cycle way would make no more than $2.50 an hour over two years.

– the government figure of $40mln per 10,000 workers for the 9 day fortnight is about right. However this only…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:47:08 +1300 George Darroch https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95871#post95871 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95871#post95871

Jeebus Cyst, George... Is there a Godwin's Law of Klan References?

That was a Godwinable offence. I'm pleading guilty in the hope of diversion.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:38:32 +1300 David Slack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95869#post95869 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95869#post95869 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:28:32 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95868#post95868 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95868#post95868

I hear that everyone other than rich white men are woefully underrepresented.

But are they getting paid to do this?
Dammit they are.
I guess that seals it the verdict is in. While the post war generations exhibited certain amounts of angst about what previous rich white folk did to…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:27:32 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95867#post95867 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95867#post95867

Right now, there are about a dozen "sub-workflow" going on.

Inter-Office Memo: When looking for jargon to replace 'workshop' or 'breakout session', try to come up with something that doesn't sound like a symptom of urinary tract infection.

I hear that everyone other than rich white men are woefully underrepresented.…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:16:12 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95866#post95866 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95866#post95866 "Rule".

Just sayin'

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:10:23 +1300 George Darroch https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95862#post95862 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95862#post95862 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:49:59 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95861#post95861 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95861#post95861 Keynes wrote:

If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coalmines which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again (the right…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:49:47 +1300 Julie Fairey https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95860#post95860 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95860#post95860 My concern is how much National will truly listen, and whose words they will privilege when they do that listening.

It seems bizarre to me that despite the fact that a large chunk of the NZ population voted for Labour, just a few months ago, they have been deliberately shut…

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:43:38 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95859#post95859 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-two-wallops-of-wonk-with-a-side-of/?p=95859#post95859 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:43:38 +1300