Public Address | Cafe | OnPoint: The Gift that Keeps on Making Me Barf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Jarno van der Linden https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=295183#post295183 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=295183#post295183 As I’ve said before, MIM attacks are likely to be a last resort for governments because of their extreme detectability

Seems the NSA has been running out of ideas then.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/flying-pig-nsa-impersonates-google

]]> Sat, 14 Sept 2013 00:01:05 +1200 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294558#post294558 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294558#post294558 Forbes on the lack of anonymity in Bitcoin (the clustering analysis techniques used are actually pretty straightforward).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/09/05/follow-the-bitcoins-how-we-got-busted-buying-drugs-on-silk-roads-black-market/

]]> Tue, 10 Sept 2013 09:28:48 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294497#post294497 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294497#post294497 Am I being paranoid to wonder if the reason the iphone keeps that list at all is for that very purpose?

I'd say that's paranoid. I expect their reason is to monetize it somehow. Also, there are actually quite a lot of people who just aren't worried about being tracked,…

]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 15:37:02 +1200 Stephen R https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294485#post294485 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294485#post294485 From der Spiegel:
The documents state that it is possible for the NSA to tap most sensitive data held on these smart phones, including contact lists, SMS traffic, notes and location information about where a user has been.

Do you remember that thing in the news about how Apple was…

]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 14:27:32 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294470#post294470 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294470#post294470 https://www.trustwave.com/support/kb/article.aspx?id=12936) try and MITM https traffic. I believe there are tools that do (and one could do this with squid) and a corporate could distribute a root certificate to stop messages appearing (at least in IE). But they'd be very unwise to do so,… ]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 13:04:13 +1200 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294468#post294468 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294468#post294468 The NSA can pwn your smart-phone (yes, even your Crackberry). ]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 12:47:42 +1200 Andrew E https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294462#post294462 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294462#post294462 Mon, 09 Sept 2013 11:31:00 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294460#post294460 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294460#post294460 Mon, 09 Sept 2013 11:07:12 +1200 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294458#post294458 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294458#post294458 well of course we're not really worried about people getting our public keys – if they're breaking in to our computers to get our private keys, or cracking them by brute force means that's another thing.

On the other hand because we now know they own all the routers "man-in-the-middle"…

]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 10:48:42 +1200 Andrew E https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294456#post294456 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294456#post294456 Bruce Schneier's guide to staying secure in The Guardian. ]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 10:45:45 +1200 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294455#post294455 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294455#post294455 Snowden used GPG or similar to establish his initial contact and then send proof of bona fides. He explicitly said that the risk was uber-powerful brute force, and we already knew that that was… ]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 09:46:08 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294454#post294454 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294454#post294454 I imagine that there is pressure to escalate the use of the GCSB/NSAs very expensive toys – the Dotcom case is an example – time was when a cop (or even FBI agent) with that sort of case would have been shown the door in short order.

We'll one day…

]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 09:29:14 +1200 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294452#post294452 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294452#post294452 Well there's the problem isn't it – do you trust them to keep within the law? And how can you tell if they don't?

The recent example of the DEA is instructive they've been tapping away to their heart's content but then building cases backwards until they can find something…

]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 09:18:05 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294448#post294448 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294448#post294448 we can speculate about all the amazeball capabilities of the NSA, but it doesn’t all automatically transfer to the GCSB.

Yup, you might as well keep using as good encryption as you can. There’s no law against it, no particular reason they’d think you’re a terrorist, and as for the…

]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 01:45:26 +1200 Keith Ng https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294446#post294446 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294446#post294446 There's really not that much point worrying about what access to your data intelligence services have (unless, of course, you are a spook yourself), because they have the power to coerce from you anything you care to hide.

Though I keep talking about PRISM and other NSA systems, this is…

]]> Mon, 09 Sept 2013 00:16:41 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294417#post294417 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294417#post294417 Wikileaks details how NZ spies will work ]]> Sun, 08 Sept 2013 18:27:35 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294414#post294414 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294414#post294414 Sun, 08 Sept 2013 17:42:19 +1200 Robert Harvey https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294372#post294372 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294372#post294372 Sun, 08 Sept 2013 12:02:38 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294358#post294358 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294358#post294358 ...or somehow hoisting them on their own petard
for the nsa surely it'd be more
hosting them on their own petabyte petard...

...slightly loopy tangential aside:
backdoors...other people can use them..
(think about that one for a bit)
what happens when data goes into feedback?

stochastic moebius ommm...?

Resist…

]]> Sun, 08 Sept 2013 07:53:44 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294356#post294356 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294356#post294356 If you want to protest their actions, then I think actual protest in a public and open way is far more likely to be effective than playing their game with encryption.

That, or somehow hoisting them on their own petard.

]]> Sun, 08 Sept 2013 01:53:04 +1200 Jarno van der Linden https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294353#post294353 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294353#post294353 It just occurred to me to start imagining how this all interacts with the (already bad) idea of online voting for local and national elections. The security agencies could end up actually knowing who you voted for.

Next time you go through US customs and immigration, be prepared for extra…

]]> Sat, 07 Sept 2013 21:31:25 +1200 Gareth Swain https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294346#post294346 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294346#post294346 Topical...?

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-09-06/
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-09-07

]]> Sat, 07 Sept 2013 17:59:44 +1200 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294337#post294337 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294337#post294337 I tend to agree. When your own government, which is meant to represent you and which structures the entire legislative framework in which you have to live, won't commit to not snooping on you (and perhaps even actively does so), there's only so much that can be done short of… ]]> Sat, 07 Sept 2013 13:48:43 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294330#post294330 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294330#post294330 Sat, 07 Sept 2013 11:51:43 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294326#post294326 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294326#post294326 But if your purpose is to protect yourself from a body like the NSA, then good luck with that

I tend to agree. When your own government, which is meant to represent you and which structures the entire legislative framework in which you have to live, won't commit to not…

]]> Sat, 07 Sept 2013 11:05:53 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294321#post294321 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294321#post294321 All of which is to say that 100% security of data is not possible, and furthermore it's not even really possible to know with any accuracy how safe your data is, because it comes down to how much the intelligence people care about it.

Which neatly segues into a point…

]]> Sat, 07 Sept 2013 10:33:00 +1200 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294318#post294318 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294318#post294318 it’s not normal for the compartment names to be classified.

Should have read "it's normal for the compartment names to be classified."

]]> Sat, 07 Sept 2013 09:25:41 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294315#post294315 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294315#post294315 Little further down, we see Idiot/Savant. He has signed my key, which means that he has used his key to vouch for my key. [---snip--] If you met I/S and verified his key, then that takes you one step closer: You know that his key is not faked, therefore you… ]]> Sat, 07 Sept 2013 08:41:54 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294299#post294299 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294299#post294299 . An individual must also have been cleared for access to a particular compartment, and it’s not normal for the compartment names to be classified.

damn those compartments....

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 22:41:50 +1200 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294290#post294290 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294290#post294290 In the old days, in the UK at least, the level of a security clearance was a secret from the person holding that clearance.

Ain’t the case now. For one thing you have to be vetted, and sign forms, and the forms you have to sign are directly related to…

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 20:13:28 +1200 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294289#post294289 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294289#post294289 Matthew: you are assuming that what they publicise as ok for e.g. Top Secret is what they actually use.

Suite B is published so that private contractors can build products for use by the US government. I guess the NSA could conceivably buy up a bunch of hardware produced outside…

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 20:04:24 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294278#post294278 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294278#post294278 This means the person who created the key also controls my Twitter and Public Address accounts. But what if both those things were hacked?
Hope they were wearing ties when they did that...

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 19:12:54 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294268#post294268 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294268#post294268 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2RFbS7gKAQ

I love the idea that all the keyboard jockeys still have to wear ties.

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 17:21:36 +1200 Lucy Telfar Barnard https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294266#post294266 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294266#post294266 In the old days, in the UK at least, the level of a security clearance was a secret from the person holding that clearance.But if you know you're only cleared to Top Secret Barfbutt, and by accident something that's Top Secret Crudclap comes across your desk, how are you meant… ]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 17:13:45 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294264#post294264 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294264#post294264 The Five Eyes don’t have a monopoly on theoretical mathematicians.

They don’t, although it is a crying shame that the collective intelligence community does have that monopoly. There’s so much more worthy things they could be doing.

ETA: The mathematicians, I mean. The intelligence people I can scarcely give a…

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 17:06:28 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294263#post294263 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294263#post294263 If “they” had found a way to break public-key generally, Suite B would cease to be approved for at least Top Secret material in very short order.

Perhaps, or they might leave it that way for a bit (since only they would know how to crack it), and see if…

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 17:05:01 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294261#post294261 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294261#post294261 Matthew: you are assuming that what they publicise as ok for e.g. Top Secret is what they actually use. There may be a classified specification for handling such data that overrides the published spec.

(Although it would probably leak. But it tends to be the way things work. In the…

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 17:03:37 +1200 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294259#post294259 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294259#post294259 Do you really think the first thing they’d do if they really cracked public key encryption would be to tell everyone?

They wouldn't, but the language in the BULLRUN briefing document is a little equivocal for such a massive breakthrough. There's also the matter of Suite B protocols (document last…

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 16:48:11 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294255#post294255 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294255#post294255 However, despite this being framed as a breach of encryption, the actual process of encryption (the actual “lock”) hasn’t been broken.

As far as we know. Do you really think the first thing they’d do if they really cracked public key encryption would be to tell everyone?

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 16:31:40 +1200 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294249#post294249 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294249#post294249 here, since the FTP upload seems to have munged the other one with extra carriage-returns ]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 15:55:28 +1200 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294245#post294245 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294245#post294245 If you met I/S and verified his key, then that takes you one step closer: You know that his key is not faked, therefore you can be more confident that my key is not faked.

And if I gave you one of those little cards over the weekend, in between…

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 15:44:53 +1200 Kyhwana https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294243#post294243 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294243#post294243 Fri, 06 Sept 2013 15:41:48 +1200 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294242#post294242 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-the-gift-that-keeps-on-making-me/?p=294242#post294242 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Fri, 06 Sept 2013 15:41:48 +1200