http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-7598355/aHR0cDovL3N2dHBsYXkuc2Uvdi8yMjY0MDI4L3dpa2lyZWJlbHNfX190aGVfZG9jdW1lbnRhcnk/Y2IsYTEzNjQxNDUsMSxmLC0xL3BiLGExMzY0MTQyLDEsZiwtMS9wbCx2LCwyMjY0MDI4L3NiLHAxMTg3NTAsMSxmLC0x

Fair point.

Also, the assumption was not that it would foster open communication.

I think it's interesting in this respect that you are all offering examples of leaks that come from the world of intelligence.

That's where most classified information is. As opposed to merely private.

Leaks about the workings of private organizations can be damning, too, even though the consent of the…

Yes, as most things that are done for the first time are.

That's one POV, I guess. I tend to think you can make informed guesses prior to an experiment, particularly one with huge consequences. But, the experiment is begun, so I guess we'll just see.

Pentagon Papers, maybe? Ellsberg's release of those beefed up the antiwar movement substantially. From that point on, the end was in sight (in hindsight anyway) for America's involvement in Vietnam, which came relatively quickly as pre-Internet timescales go.

It didn't change the way the government…

Yes, as most things that are done for the first time are.

If that's the case, then there's no evidence whatsoever to the claim that these leaks foster more open communication. It's hit-and-hope.

But I disagree – what has happened with…

I'm suggesting that they are…

I'm not attempting to make a counter argument. You just asked the question whether anyone had tried with the leaks, in the context of the discussion about whether it has led to any…

The polls showed that most US citizens believed the lies, actually. Many of them they still think Saddam bombed them – when they…

Has WikiLeaks ever taken the position that there should be no secrets whatsoever? If they did, they'd just dump all that they have. The problem is exactly that they need time and resources (which often means the help of regular media)…

For sure. It was basically public knowledge at this point that the Bush team had deliberately lied their way into Iraq, but still he rode high in the polls.

Not just that, but contravening all the governance safeguards – the process was corrupted.

True enough, I don't think his deliberate contradiction of the establishment line was ever accused of being illegal. They used other pressure to attempt to disincentivize and discredit him.

As for the outing, the only comparison to…

But it's reasonable that some stuff will remain secret – and there is no evidence…

Even accepting this sillogism, which seems highly suspect to me, what are you actually saying? That we were better off by not knowing those things that we didn't know, because now they'll be made even more secret? I'm really struggling to figure…

Something that Wikileaks makes far far more likely.

There are meant to be layers of checks and balances, but one of the reasons for the US…

I'm not even sure what 'the leaks of Valerie Plame' means. Her husband…

The leaks of Valerie Plame did a lot to convince me that the US systematically lied in the lead up to the Iraq war. The leaks that outed her as a CIA operative, however, were highly counterproductive.

Has it ever been tried? People cite Watergate as if it was the same thing – it wasn't. That was a proper criminal conspiracy, not the application of conspiratorial logic to the 'regular', non criminal…

Hence in a world where leaking is easy, secretive or unjust systems are nonlinearly hit relative to open, just systems. Since unjust systems, by their nature induce opponents, and in many places barely have the upper hand, mass leaking leaves them exquisitely vulnerable to those…

Making the channels more secure intrinsically…

But these leaks are still a…

It's "Zunguzungu" and I linked to it days ago, but I understand that reading the whole discussion may be too tiresome for your attention span.

Assange sums it up pretty neatly. He says first why…

The loss of so much data makes the USA look fairly complacent in terms of security, I was amazed to hear there were three million people on their ‘share’ list.

That's really the weakness in the system, not the transmission period. If thousands of people have access to the texts,…

Must be stifling. How's the place coming along?

Big cheers for the comprehensible replies, and especially that last bit pretty much clears it up for me!!

The loss of so much data makes the USA look fairly complacent in terms of security, I…

For any tech specialists, how accurate could this be?

It's possible. Working out a key when you have ciphertext and the corresponding plaintext is easier for some algorithms than it is without the plaintext. But that does presume that they used the same key for many transmissions. With public key…

__**I wonder if the yanks realise that releasing a million or so transcripts with time stamps will give other countries who have been capturing and databasing encrypted streams of these communications, all the data they need to crack the encryption algorithms…

The issue that most people miss is that none of these documents are likely to be "news" to many foreign governments.

It seemed to be news to the German government that an aide was spying for the Americans. I wouldn't be surprised if it's news to quite a few in…

Re the suspension by Paypal et al of payments to Wikileaks, I don’t believe that being a bank or not makes a difference in terms of whether they have the right to disallow a payment to some third party. Not the same issue but certainly as…

It's not so much a "wall" as potholes strewn wildly about the place.

I think their actual wall wasn't really meant to stop invaders either. It was meant to slow them down during their getaway. More of a disincentive than an actual barrier – it was far too long to…

Confused may not be the word but certainly he has been trailing the wanted tag for a while.

Well...he did stuck around in Sweden during the initial investigation and left on being told there would be no charges. Not so keen to return now, for sure, but hardly avoiding the…

That is exactly counter to my understanding of the situation….

From my (admittedly not very in-depth) understanding of the situation… he dropped himself in at the earliest opportunity once a valid warrant…

Paypal, Visa, etc. stopping me from making a payment to an organization's account of my choosing....

1) Are they doing this just to suck up to the US government, or is this a more specific and self-interested response to the promise of up-coming leaks on the US…

While I acknowledge this as a technical/physical…

This stuff is MAD arbitrary.

Damn straight, the biggest dickswab of late has been the blocking of IMDB.com. It infuriates me. The quickest way I found in is returntojail.com, but 23 popups for the University of Liverpool Master's program is obscene. Come on University of Liverpool, are movie trivia obsessives…

Oh Richard, were you serious? I took it as irony.

And Visa?

You get my vote!

So much for civilisation in the 'civilized'…

I was in Shanghai airport a few weeks ago and the free WiFi was heinously crap. I assumed this was just the nature of free WiFi (I'm expecting the vaunted Wellington service to be the same, especially…

Heh. I will admit to being provocative, but I was able to back my position with data – namely a slew of narcissistic and (in places) misogynist comments on his blog. (Ironically enough, preserved for posterity by…

It is a very specific comment about a guy whose blog reads as if it could have been written by Clayton Weatherston’s somewhat smarter brother.

I've noticed the physical similarity between Danyl and Clayton as well. The names – with l's, a's , n's and y's – are practically identical…

No different to any internet filter/firewall. Witness the stupidity of the Australian internet filter blacklist, which contained legitimate businesses, including a dentist! The fact that it was leaked to Wikileaks just reinforces how important wikileaks could be.

I've been behind a DOE firewall in the…

You can kill a man, but that probably won’t affect the operation of distributed servers run by people other than the guy you just killed.

Nope. Hong Kong and Macau are firmly outside the…

This stuff is MAD arbitrary. My domain, which hosts nothing but my Google Apps email, is blocked. Took me a day to figure out that they didn't actually block Google Apps. Dropbox is inexplicably blocked. Half the Tor site is blocked…

Your argument has the same tone behind it as the Baatan Death March.

That sounds like a sexual euphemism.

Its not hard to see a guy like that as a rapist.

This type of generalisation is typical of arsonists.

But the diet & exercise advice is exceptionally useful. I shall tame the lobster and take up long distance running immediately.

Thu 08 Jun 2006 : The history of warfare
The history of warfare is similarly subdivided, although here the phases
are Retribution, Anticipation, and Diplomacy. Thus:

Retribution:
I'm going to kill you because you killed my brother.
Anticipation:
I'm going to kill you because I killed your brother.
Diplomacy:…

Search for “Canberra” :-) And "ANU" :-)

I am somewhat leery of the argument that Assange can never be arrested for anything, ever, because he'll automatically be rendered to the Americans and tortured for years, etc. It....puts him in a position I'm dubious he deserves to be in.

I agree though I do think we all need…

I am somewhat leery of the argument that Assange can never be arrested for anything

Burn straw man, burn.

Unlike every politician, blog commenter ever? If you think that's how 'rapist' is defined, then I'm afraid you're surrounded by them...

Congratulations: this is the longest bow I've seen anyone draw since Robin Hood – Prince of Thieves.

Assange does seem to be fairly sure he knows what is best for everyone.

Its not hard to see a guy like that as a rapist.

"You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea" – Civil Rights activist Medgar…

Far from being hypothetical, cyberwarfare is already a hot war, with mounting evidence that China is particularly active.

This is so far from being news to anyone in the computer security field that it's laughable. Which doesn't stop it being frightening.

I have the gravest concerns for Assange's future. If…

Of course Taiwan which is technically sort of part…

Too true – but the faux outrage at their release provides a nice distraction from their content

I seem to recall T-z-e M-i-n-g not being able to view her own blog at times. (See what I did there?)

Freenet

Freegate … sort of

Good post Keith