Canty Water sure is heating up.

all those norwesters..

no mention of R&D credits, or indeed any other incentive for private enterprise to carry out R&D

That's because the CRIs will hand it all over to them for free, isn't it? Just like we're freeloading on the US and others for agri-emissions research.

Water Forum is on over the next month at New Brighton Markets till 6…

hmm? What're your concerns there? Just skimmed through the speech, and totally underwhelmed by so much of the knowledge investment section, but don't know enough background to know why you think the CRIs thing could be bad news.

Largely that any time I hear that funding is going to be…

National leader John Key said told a press conference this morning that if National is elected and does a "half decent job" at growing the economy, then increasing GST and the top tax rate will not be necessary.

And that stuff about CRIs could make it a very long term move, if it ends up being as bad as it sounds.

hmm? What're your concerns there? Just skimmed through the speech, and totally underwhelmed by so much of the knowledge investment section, but don't know enough background to…

But I'm a mad bastard who doesn't have to make it work in the real world..

Then again, I'm also the kind of crank who thinks that:

1) A country has to live within its means, just like its citizens.

2) If you want to increase government spending, putting it…

As a member of that group, the only reasons I haven't is that we're waiting on other options, but it's looking more and more likely. And that stuff about CRIs could make it a very long term move, if it ends up being as bad as it sounds.

I suppose,…

As a member of that vague group, were I not rather attached to my family and newly in a relationship Australia would be looking really tempting right now. It's not like I've got a job to hold me here at present.

As a member of that group, the only reasons…

Gens X & Y should get off their chuffs & do what I did, she huffs: that is, physically build a garage & live in it for nearly 2 years while physically building my house & going off every so often to earn money so I could continue to do-

You're absolutely right about…

Hickey's columns are repetitive. But he's laid his case out again and again. I'm not sure what you mean by not doing the heavy lifting.

Getting a little beyond "flounce for your lives!" ?

This is not making a case:

Today he did nothing. He did worse than nothing. He…

o, wait a moment…

[Australians] seem to have made a much better fist of economic management in the last 25 years than we have.

More that, for whatever reason, they got lucky with electing leaders who didn't have stealth objectives, in either direction, who could then gut the country. We got Rogernomics by stealth,…

...mining in national parks to go ahead with the establishment of a conservation fund from some of the proceeds as a sweetener.

I feel sick.

You know, it's not actually an inaccurate characterisation of what some of my younger non-property-owning friends have been saying this afternoon.

As a member of that vague group, were I not rather attached to my family and newly in a relationship Australia would be looking really tempting right now. It's…

You know, it's not actually an inaccurate characterisation of what some of my younger non-property-owning friends have been saying this afternoon. And these people aren't whiners.

I'm sure they're not, Russell, but while I've got a lot of time for Bernard Hickey his regular 'gangway to the departure gate!" column…

I can see how the latter could deliver benefits greater than its various costs. The water thing is just hostile.

If Goff can't make some headway in Canterbury now, he…

Perhaps i missed something, but it seemed blindingly obvious to me that the numbers for a land tax just weren't there — and never would be.

They have two support parties. I can think of one who would agree, under the right circumstances.

Actually, that raises a very interesting question:…

Dear Bernard: Age before beauty, darling. Don't let the departure gate hit your arse on the way out, and don't remember to write.

You know, it's not actually an inaccurate characterisation of what some of my younger non-property-owning friends have been saying this afternoon. And these people aren't whiners.

If you are are a Tory government who doesn't want the big realignment to happen on your watch

Realignment. Such an unassuming word.

Sounds like a case of cold feet after the Quarter Acre Cartel threatened to push the Big Red Launch Button.

Really, Red? Perhaps i missed something, but it seemed blindingly obvious to me that the numbers for a land tax just weren't there — and never would be. Depressing, but…

Bernard Hickey slams Key:

Sounds like a case of cold feet after the Quarter Acre Cartel threatened to push the Big Red Launch Button.

Nixon has just squandered his chance to visit China.

Bernard Hickey slams Key: Leave the country now[,] Gen X & Y

Dear Bernard: Age before beauty, darling. Don't let the departure gate hit your arse on the way out, and don't remember to write.

Housing prices are way out of line with incomes, with inflation, and with return on rentals. We…

mining in national parks to go ahead with the establishment of a conservation fund from some of the proceeds as a sweetener.

A conservation fund to conserve... um...

hmmm
Therefore is the House of Parliament
an asset that we all own?

But do we occupy it?

SCREEAAAAAAAAAM *headsmak*

Can someone start importing desk pillows? The lump on my forehead is getting rather large.

Thank you stephen.
That error comes from starting work and 4:30am...

in a better state

true, I was just not being too optimistic...

> Are people employed to maintain the shelter "machine"? Yes.

If that makes housing productive then I'll argue that cars are also productive assets because they keep mechanics employed. As an entire class of asset that may be true, but as discrete instances they're very definitely not productive.

I only…

Listen to Bob Buckle on Morning report today

Nine to Noon. But yeah, scream. SCREEAAAAAAAAAM *headsmak*

[Education] is clearly productive to the educator, as it generates income, but for the educated it is unproductive as consumption of education requires time that cannot then be used for other things.

This feels like the heart of the difference between some technical definition of "productive" and the word's meaning…

So I reckon a house is productive like, say, and education. If that isn't "productive" in your terminology, then there is presumably another word which applies and renders the prevalent productive/unproductive dichotomy meaningless since it doesn't span the relevant options.

Provision of education is a service, certainly, and the property…

So I reckon a…

The household as an economic unit in arctic aboriginal communities

Household Production and the Household Economy

__[[http://www2.lse.ac.uk/socialPolicy/BSPS/ppt/Coast_May08.ppt|'The household is central to the development process. Not only is the household a production unit but it is also a consumption, social and demographic unit'…

Now, I should note that I don't particularly care for the idea of consumption[1] here and didn't bring it up. But when you look at…

Sort of. You can model it as consumable for our intents here, I think.

I'm still confused. How do you throw away shelter? After I've used it, it's still usable by someone else (well, unless I've burnt it down, but that's another issue).

Oh, and a fruit tree produces fruit,…

Please clarify for me: are you saying that you consume shelter?

Sort of. You can model it as consumable for our intents here, I think.

Other non-productive assets under your definition:…

Shelter not being a consumable good, obviously.

Please clarify for me: are you saying that you consume shelter?

By consume I mean use, modify, destroy, etc. You know, like how you use a TV & throw it away after 4 or 5 years (when it's worthless), or how you eat a…

It's not producing anything for consumption by others, which is what one expects of a productive asset.

Shelter not being a consumable good, obviously.

What I meant is that even if just a small portion of renters could afford to buy, their ability to go "no, piss off" has the ability to drive rent down across the board.

But if that portion of renters move out of the rental market, then so does an…

"productive" is a rather poor choice of word on your part.

I think that's massively confused. Houses are capital which produces something people want: shelter. They're productive.

(And a house is a productive asset as opposed to say gold.)

The whole thrust of the TWG was to redistribute the tax burden downwards so we can have yet another repeat of failed trickle neo-liberal economic theory

Listen to Bob Buckle on Morning report today made me want to scream . . . . .

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/ntn/2010/02/09/new_tax_proposals

Because, well, for a lot of people it's not? I'm sure there are a great many renters who would buy if they could, but that doesn't mean there isn't a solid core of people who can't afford or for whom it isn't practical to buy.

What I meant is that…

And you can rent the house out as a productive asset.

I think your definition of "productive" differs markedly from the definition of "productive" used by most market commentators. It may be productive for the owner, but it's most definitely not productive for the wider economy. Since this entire debate…

But then wouldn't that mean less rental property available, and therefore further upward pressure on rental housing pricing?

Depends. Quite a few landlords own multiple rental properties. If it was one landlord-one rental property, it'd be a fairly easy scenario. However, when there's leverage spread across three, five, ten rental…

Landlords will have to pay tax – and may try to pass it on to renters – but at the same time, property prices will fall, making purchasing more viable

But then wouldn't that mean less rental property available, and therefore further upward pressure on rental housing pricing?

Um, that should have been "disinterested". The only way any "plenty of MPs" would be "disintered" (sic) is if we have a hitherto well hidden multi-party zombie caucus. Which would explain a lot, but is still implausible...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzowFJTApfY&feature=related

Ammo and Tamiflu, that's where it's at.

and body scanners – ask Michael Chertoff
Patriot Act architect and ex boss of
US Homeland Security!
There's brass in fear!

They don't seem to consider "not renting" as an option.

Because, well, for a lot of people it's not? I'm sure there are a great many renters who would buy if they could, but that doesn't mean there isn't a solid core of people who can't afford or for whom…

He also made the comment below which every politician should think hard about.

If a house is to be a “Money Tree”–a source of unearned income–then there are two sources of that unearned income:
(1) Somebody else’s income; or
(2)…

Don't forget the Ric Barker post on red alert – http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/02/02/tread-carefully-mr-key/ . Labour arguing for landowners not paying tax?

Here are three questions a landlord has to answer before they get an ounce of sympathy:

1) How much has their property appreciated in value since they bought it? (Probably quite…

None of which does you any good if your fund is run by a crook. Which is what happened in 1987, and more recently with finance companies.

You're right. It's hard to appreciate the impact of these things when I didn't live through it.

(Roger Douglas appears through a broken window) –
Roger Douglas – Brains, brains

Mum & Dad Kiwi – No Roger there are no Brains here, we invested in leaky Auckland Uni Student accomodation.

Roger Douglas – brains?

Mum & Dad Kiwi – No Roger.

Roger leaves…

On this morning's RadioNZ news an item about how a capital gains tax will hurt the 'most vulnerable' — in this case it's renters, since landlords will have to increase rents to cover increased tax liability.

Hmmm, I got distracted and didn't get to this point in the post.

Landlords…

disintered

Um, that should have been "disinterested". The only way any "plenty of MPs" would be "disintered" (sic) is if we have a hitherto well hidden multi-party zombie caucus. Which would explain a lot, but is still implausible...

Don't forget the Ric Barker post on red alert – http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/02/02/tread-carefully-mr-key/ . Labour arguing for landowners not paying tax?

Certainly does put a whole new gloss on "for the many, not the few" doesn't it? :)

This man is no bludger, no rack rent landlord, he is not highly leveraged…

we just don't trust those scumbags

Yeah, we prefer the home grown kind, who must be trustworthy coz they went to Auckland Grammar and once scored a try against Scotland.

The main advantage of property is that you can borrow a large percentage of its value and are under (in…

Don't forget the Ric Barker post on red alert – http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/02/02/tread-carefully-mr-key/ . Labour arguing for landowners not paying tax?

I won't forget it.

New Zealand has one of the least affordable housing markets in the world, and is one of the few OECD countries without a capital gains tax. House prices need to come…

I think they'll close most of the loopholes – goodbye LAQCs – but I can't imagine they'll bring in a land or capital gains tax.

More seriously, yeah, nothing is really risk free.

(For instance, you are taking on the risk that you won't be able to enjoy the assets…

If you want safe, there's gilts.

Doesn't protect you against the collapse of the economic system though. Nor does gold.

Ammo and Tamiflu, that's where it's at.

But if you invest in a property you actually get a property, which has some value

How do you mean? If you live in the house yes, there's value in that. And you can rent the house out as a productive asset. But then, shares return dividends and so forth.…

Sometimes properties sell for less than you paid for them

But if you invest in a property you actually get a property, which has some value; if someone tries to rob the house or burn it down you can call the police. If you invest in a New Zealand company…

But it is safe. you won't lose your money because the managers are crooks and the market rigged in favour of insiders.

Really quite untrue by the way. Sometimes properties sell for less than you paid for them. This isn't a huge problem in NZ, but it can and does…

Why are they dependent on one asset class in the first place?

Because they're old enough to remember 1987. Sure, a rental property or your own home may not be the most productive investment, economically speaking – it doesn't employ anyone, and managers don't get bonuses from it. But it…