Public Address | Cafe | OnPoint: From the floor of the Tax Working Group https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Harry Musgrave https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=144069#post144069 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=144069#post144069 Keith Rankin – not at all a right wing guy – has been proposing a flat tax system with a univeral wage for some years. He had a third component which was a kind of supplement for those people not able to work (sickness beneficiarys etc).

His theory was we…

]]> Mon, 07 Dec 2009 21:55:18 +1300 giovanni tiso https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143765#post143765 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143765#post143765 Sun, 06 Dec 2009 14:53:54 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143763#post143763 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143763#post143763

And yea, until some government gets around to a massive construction project for genuinely affordable housing (like, under $120k in the main centres), that's going to be rough on a whole lot of people if anyone tries to put it right.

Sadly a pipe dream for as long as [[http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org|McMansion…

]]> Sun, 06 Dec 2009 14:45:02 +1300 tussock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143743#post143743 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143743#post143743

That much is true, but Morgan has failed to include the Accomodation Supplement (which, I'd guess, almost all beneficiaries are eligible for) in his calculations.

Perhaps. Little story about the accomodation supplement, I was a poor student renter when it came in. Flats went from $40/room/week in my area to…

]]> Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:20:03 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143738#post143738 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143738#post143738 More wisdom from Brian Gaynor. It takes one to know one.

Brian Gaynor: Market not up to task of closing gap with Aussies

]]> Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:56:52 +1300 3410 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143646#post143646 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143646#post143646

Re: cutting benefits and such, GM's proposal doesn't do that, he's just setting them all to the same number, $10k

That much is true, but Morgan has failed to include the Accomodation Supplement (which, I'd guess, almost all beneficiaries are eligible for) in his calculations. The absolute rock-bottom rate for…

]]> Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:29:45 +1300 tussock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143635#post143635 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143635#post143635 Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:52:29 +1300 Just thinking https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143200#post143200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143200#post143200 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:02:01 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143106#post143106 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143106#post143106

Basically, everybody is jumping off a burning plane, and the last parachute can't be found. Brash sits there calmly to the amazement of others. "Don't worry", he says, "economic assumptions show that if there's enough demand, someone will create one".

I'm also reminded of a Tom Scott cartoon that came…

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:37:11 +1300 George Darroch https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143097#post143097 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143097#post143097

I'm reminded about my favourite joke about Don Brash and a parachute right now.

Basically, everybody is jumping off a burning plane, and the last parachute can't be found. Brash sits there calmly to the amazement of others. "Don't worry", he says, "economic assumptions show that if there's enough demand,…

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:07:44 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143078#post143078 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143078#post143078

Does it? Really?

Yes. Really. Back on planet Earth, beneficiaries can't set up tax shelters or family trusts to reduce their tax bill; corporates and nice middle class people can. And if there's a way to avoid paying GST (which is arguably a regressive consumption tax) on your groceries, I'd…

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:33:22 +1300 Andre Alessi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143069#post143069 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143069#post143069

I'm reminded about my favourite joke about Don Brash and a parachute right now.

What, something along the lines of "Benefits are the parachute at the bottom of the cliff?"

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:13:42 +1300 George Darroch https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143068#post143068 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143068#post143068

Morgan's other suggestions: dropping the Unemployment Benefit, the DPB, the Sickness Benefit (!) and so on are just loopy, but about what I'd expect from someone who thinks people in those situations deserve everything they get (or don't get, rather.)

What are you talking about? Sick people and those don't…

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:12:11 +1300 Ben Gracewood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143067#post143067 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143067#post143067 The most interesting thing about Gareth Morgan's idea is how it highlights the complete lack of Capital (gains or otherwise) tax in The Don's proposal.

I guess he (Brash) is a bit blinkered by the size of his own portfolio?

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:09:56 +1300 Andre Alessi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143063#post143063 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143063#post143063 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:49:57 +1300 Rachel Prosser https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143058#post143058 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143058#post143058 Just clicked on the link to Gareth Morgan's new book on the sidebar.

It looks interesting, and the end-of-life questions are well worth asking, as are "treat at all costs" vs" "quality of life" and "quality of death" issues. I'm looking forward to reading it.

One thing jumped out at…

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:20:54 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143057#post143057 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143057#post143057

So, anything about a tax system that seems designed to encourage a culture of avoidance.

Does it? Really?

Anecdotally I am sure we all know of avoidance schemes. Because the DomPost and NZ Herald told us.

The question should be about reality not ones gut feel. My anecdotal observation is…

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:15:44 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143053#post143053 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143053#post143053 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:47:34 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143051#post143051 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143051#post143051 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:44:18 +1300 Andre https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143034#post143034 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143034#post143034 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:30:55 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143029#post143029 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143029#post143029 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:16:58 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143028#post143028 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143028#post143028 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:10:54 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143024#post143024 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143024#post143024 I'd hope if you front up to jetstar and say "can I have 4 million tickets please?" they're gonna give you a bulk discount.

If not, Mike Pero will arrange it for us I hear.

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:04:57 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143003#post143003 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143003#post143003 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:03:53 +1300 Jeremy Andrew https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143001#post143001 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143001#post143001 Tue, 01 Dec 2009 10:58:51 +1300 Jeremy Andrew https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143000#post143000 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=143000#post143000 $1.65 billion?
I can get kiwis parity with the Aussies for a third of that!
4 million NZers X $99 Jetstar one way to Sydney. Bingo, done.
:-)

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 10:58:10 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=142999#post142999 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-from-the-floor-of-the-tax-working/?p=142999#post142999 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Tue, 01 Dec 2009 10:58:10 +1300