That was me, sorry Sacha, I can see your point. But I certainly didn't mean it as a telling off! I just disagreed with your assessment.

Paul has tried hard to prove me wrong, but he's…

Labour build its election platform and get their campaign under a full head of steam based on opposition to the sale of SOEs and power generation.

National could point Labour rorted power consumers and…

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/extfin/e3/he3.xls

Ah! The tubes tell me that it's a rutabaga! (Another entry for my future 'things I thought were different in America but are actually the same' recipe translation cookbook.)

Anyway, my family swears by the superior flavour of…

I'm not so sure Dex is trolling.

Still, haven't popped in for a while and I am feeling the need to pull my dreads out already. ARRGH!!
:)

So, what's a Southland swede? Is it just turnips grown in Southland?

Sounds like a market opportunity. I wonder if they could export that along with a self-composting toilet, so that they deal with both ends of the consumption chain.

sackable offence

for(turnip=potato;turnipparsnip %= turnip;

I should hate all vegetables, but for some reason the turnips were always the loop counter, so I got especially hating on…

Well spoken.

Blackadder: Oh, come on, Baldrick, you're going to be an MP, for God's sake! I'll just put fraud and sexual deviancy. Now; minimum bribe level...
Baldrick: One turnip. Oh, hang on, I don't want to price myself out of the market.
Blackadder: Baldrick, I've always…

No. I'm not against owning capital. I'm not even against profiting from owning capital. But I don't think it's productive, so I don't see why it…

I believe I got mildly told off for noting the pattern many pages ago.

Yep. Or all talk about turnips. Seems only fair.

In the words of Roy Batty, "Time to die".

*sigh* You started the analogy, with
it is like being asked, “Who do you think will wing the 2011 election? An answer is provided and then one is asked to provide proof of the 2011 election, an event which hasn’t…

Matthew – I have never said NZ First will wing the election – I think if there is a NZ First coalition with Labour it may be a very bad thing indeed. Should Winston make a strong come back Labour may still miss out in spite…

Yes, and he got the shit kicked out of him on a daily basis by National over this too. Imagine how screwed NZ would be if he hadn't done it. Every year the…

Cullen did – right down to zero net government debt, before the handover into English's hands. Next.

I like this. It's one of the most offensive things about current arangements – the class of people being rewarded just for *waiting*, often while they loudly chestbeat about being hardworking masters of the universe.

Right at the moment, I think it would be good because we could actually balance the government's books, reducing debt, and removing excuses to sell off things we paid to build that make heaps of money.

The profit on…

If you want some info you could…

Wouldn't do any good, I suspect. They wouldn't compute. Try going against the trend with comments, and somehow they get lost....

Speaking of the irony that burns, though, the ad in the middle of that page was for Maori TV :-D

Priceless.

I still can't see the…

No, he's asking you if you can answer his counterargument about the rent issue.

Some of the things you adamantly ask are inane, it is like being asked, “Who do you think will wing the 2011 election? An answer is…

BEN1. To make heaps of revenue.
BEN2. To tax profit fairly
BEN3.…

When you say, “remember “you evaluate a tax for long-term effects, not short-term ones”- the evaluation of any measure is based on what your “purpose is” there are a range of scenarios and methods avilable. It look like you are telluing me…

The Labour Party conference raised it and also treasury have looked at the Land Tax version – they have done it before – given the chance any left or right Govt will do it again.

The present policy direction to my mind is enough – refer my post on…

I…

Naturally the smug little twat from the prosperous Eastern suburbs reckons there's a level playing field for all but mainly his discussion of Auckland's new Independent…

I'm not terribly productive at present. Too much time wasted responding to Mr X and his inability to answer the question :P

I would be a filthy commie, but I'm expected to maintain a…

True. Though after the first occurrence it was consistently "you" as in "DexterX" rather than "you" as in "one".

Yes, or perhaps "anyone openly doing this as a business already....etc

In this case, you, specifically.

Well, since we're doing handy tips…

Again, theory…

All of them have been rebutted multiple times before too. Talk to the rebuttals and this discussion can move on. It's not like it's uncontroversial, there's plenty of opportunity for good clash, if you could just actually address the rebuttals made.

I haven't gone…

If feeling filthy makes you feel good so be it.

I believe its said “feelthy comminist”

And you need to have a Don Ameche pencil-thin moustache, the swathyness of an early Ricardo Montalban, and the voice of Speedy Gonzales to create the correct mental image in the minds of your…

And la la la I can't hear you is an unattractive response when people have asked you politely to provide evidence for statements that contradict respected experts in the field you're discussing. Such as this:

The CGT that is being contemplated is in effect…

The IRD Tax guide on rental property provides that if you sell an asset for more than its adjusted tax value the difference between the sale price and the adjusted tax value is to be included in your taxable income. So the gain ore…

Because their argument is so powerful, etc, etc

Actually, it comes from the capital gain itself, it's curiously accurately named. If…

Ah, so that’s what they taught you on that finance course.

Matthews says “consistent CGT will raise…

Clinical psychopathy, that's why. And Damien Grant, like other privatisation fundies, displays the kind of cargo cultism that persists even though John Frum never turned up.

The irony. It burns.

Again with the presumption that the CGT would be levied annually on value…

Interesting, I didn’t think you would be part of…

Thanks for reading my blog.
But otherwise, I’m not sure what the point is of this…

Why are these types all so arrogant?

The proposed sale of state assets has caused some hand-wringing by economic illiterates fretting over the risk of foreign ownership.
...

American capital and know-how transformed Telecom from a moribund behemoth…

You say it with such absolute conviction, but you offer…

That…

yawn – please update your dogma

I don't have a dogma, I would hazard a quess that you are in safe employment…

It's probably worth me noting that I am actually in favour of achievement-based reductions in support; i.e. we'll keep your loan interest-free if…

Oh, and this is by the by, but I figured out where to start.

Might go see that at the Paramount tomorrow. Either that or Winter's Bone. Or I might go see a mainstream film at Reading. Depends on my mood.

But Inside Job is on my must see list.

...here, the people in power are still lying and trying to cover…

A lot of the left leaning thinking in this thread seems to think that the Govt should be Robin Hood and take from those that they think have…

I'd love to see a decent amount invested in equity and expertise to grow businesses that are NZ-owned even if they're not based here, so we reverse the flow of dividends overseas.…

Suppose a CGT is implemented. A simple Econ 101 approach would be…

Once again, I will point out that you happily ask for proof, facts & figures when someone makes a point in favour of cgt, but can’t provide any in regards your key complaint about…

Yes, we know you do. But you cannot produce evidence to support your position, whereas Elliffe's piece examined real-world implementations of CGTs and determined that there would be long-term benefits to NZ to also implementing a CGT. He is also not…

This is the big hook. As you say, we'll never keep all of our highly-educated…

Because corporate welfare is a natural thing

“All commentators thought that NZ desperately needs to manage its currency and to support and help the productive sector. A capital gains tax was considered to be a vital part of the mix. Too many are doing…

I doubt the number of scholarships available can be worse than in New Zealand, where the majority that are available are for relatively…

If it does that, then it might lead to…

That really depends on how much property gets built, and population movement both homegrown and from immigration. But yes, there's not a lot of property development…

Who is talking about a CGT on unrealised gains other than you?

I also feel immigration policy also plays a major part in the shortage and in sustaining the low age economy.

The only thing that will improve…

Yes, precisely. It bears saying though because everywhere you turn…

Yes, probably, but that spike in rent increases will be a one-off and will long-term be offset by reduced rates of rent increases due to property values not climbing as rapidly as they do when one can engage in speculative behaviour with…

A conversation I had several years ago, with someone from Australia, implied strongly that a number of…

"In the end we bought at a time when the balance of our savings, average rents and house prices meant our repayments were on a par with what we would have spent on rent."

So having to pay anything to the bank presumably still meant you…

If you are in business you can adjust the business and…

Oh, and you haven't explained why we should consider your opinion to be more worthy of contemplation than…

If tomorrow we raise the tax rate on incomes over $100,000, where do you think the money will come from?

Same place.

If students had some reasonable hope of getting their education funded other than through a student loan. maybe. But for pretty much everyone there is no option except a loan. Scholarships are few, applicants are many,…

I recall there was a land tax in the 1980s on…

There's lots of factors that come into play, and they matter differently to different people. Stability is a big factor for some, I think people with kids tend to think it matters a lot more. Being able to…

Including student allowances, absolutely. But student loans are loans. They're at least technically an asset, not an operating expense, and…

Matthew, I actually think it's reasonable to assess the total value of public funding for tertiary by including student support. The…

There's nowt so queer as folk. :)

Yeah, I can see that – depending on your priorities – renting might be better for a lot of people. For me it's absolutely not, however.

In terms of what funding, I meant the combined impact on universities of regulating fees and also enrolments which, along with…

Not having to decorate is a plus for me. Plus the annoying landlord (of which we've had none, ever) gets to deal with the leaky roof, which is a big win.

beholden to the bank on a monthly basis

I’d rather be beholden to a bank than a landlord. I’ve had some fucking weird and/or power-mad landlords.

ETA:

then on average you’d be better off renting

People always say this, but renting in NZ sucks unless you can pay top dollar.…

That's only if you don't separate interest payments from the principal. The rent is like an interest payment – it goes to the landlord, or the bank, and stays with…

Well, when you give it to the bank you are buying back a little more of an asset that will, very likely, appreciate in value. If you give it…

It's true that the bank makes a fine profit out of lending you the money, but…

Who don't pay taxes, mind.

Um. Death duties are for the living. The recently-dead can be taxed no more.

Yes, it seems totally unnecessary to me. If you profited, you profited. Pay tax!

Profit should certainly include some kind of inflation adjustment. If you purchased a house in 1965 for $10,000, and sold it in 2010…

Too right. I think it's a good arrangement: you guys get to correct my English and I your Latin.

(I would go to that museum.)

It's on a plane, you wouldn't like that.

(I would go to that museum.)

Nauseam. Sorry, I keep having to say it: it's not the museum of feeling whoozy.

I'm not willing to give even that much. Property ownership is still a dream for me, even with a…

Which is pretty much my argument. If the benefit of buying for capital gain is significantly reduced, property turnover rates are reduced which reduces the upward pressure on…

I'll happily trade a class of traders and speculators who own ten-plus houses at a time with one of serial renovators who flick a single one off every couple of years.

How many might there become if the loophole remains? I'm sure someone said about the family trust tax issue before Labour raised the personal rate – "Leave them. How many trusts…

I'd be tempted to leave these hardy souls alone for the sake of simplicity. How many can they be, and at the end of the day they…

It's recognised…

I know a couple who bought up houses, lived in them as they did them up, and then flicked them off for…

Yeah I want to apologize for that, actually, it was unnecessarily personal. You might have had good reasons for not opting to avoid saying that your intention was to make a capital gain on the property. You'd need to go into a lot…

Actually, the penalties for a mistake are pretty reasonable. You have to go well out of your…

Put $1000 in a CD April 1 – earn 5%ish -> 1050, use it to pay off part of your student loan the following March, earn 10% extra govt. loan payoff – $1155 -…

Well, of course. When your Minister of Tertiary Education includes student loans in the overall education budget, that's quite a significant distortion…

Why?
What is your evidence for this belief?
How will a CGT "worsen the accommodation crisis"?
Why will a CGT raise rents?

You keep on making sweeping statements but you never justify them with…

The present tax position in NZ…

Do you actually know the answer?

Definitely they're hard figures to work out, how much capital gain was made in NZ, and how much of it was taxed. My "massive proportion"…

In 2008 there was a case that gave some clarity to the interpretation of "intent and purpose" and it went in favour of the IRD's position.

As I mentioned…

No, that's way too superficial I agree (bonding being a sensible variation I think we agree). I don't have the answer but I do think the discussion…

He doesn't need to research this, anymore than he needs to research that the sun comes up in the morning.

Anyway, at the risk of being told to “just fucking google it” (I just fucking couldn’t be bothered, okay?)

I have to ask: SCT?

“Not ALL those gains were tax free, just a massive proportion of them. Anyone who wasn't a property dealer, like you, for some strange reason, opted to be.”

What was the massive proportion of them??

In response to…

Just because you had an accountant doesn't mean you understood what was going on. The problem may have gone right back to when you got your investment property in the first place. If you…

Yes, and what were they doing that was so nuts? Lending shitloads to property speculators. In this country it was a field day, because all those capital gains were tax free

So what is the figure here.

The IRD are applying the Act the "intent and purpose" and…

Actually, the position of the Vice Chancellors and…

Where is the proof re

"In this country it was a field day, because all those capital gains were tax free".

IMHO the three term Labour govt squandered its time in office and the lost opportunity will be all they will be remembered for as the coming crisis hits home very hard.

I found it hard to follow your arguments supporting this conclusion, particularly the argument that many business…

Mawh hah hah!

Well, I found it so infuriating that I wanted others to share my infuriation.
I mentioned already how he claimed Huang and ... (checking carefully) ..Elliffe were 'emotive', but then writes a lot of stuff that was very emotive,…

Where is the proof that capital gains are tax free and what is the figure?

People engaged in the development of property as their principal activity if they buy…

I want to live in a New Zealand that rewards those who receive income, pay tax on this income and don’t spend all of their net income, so they have this money left over to built their asset base.

Considering that managing…

I think it's the smoking of the candles where you should really take a break.

I have not said the sun goes up, so rent goes up

I know, I said that.

You might not have noticed that the sun goes up and down.…

Well, sure, but it doesn't even come to assessing their respective expertise/qualifications. His argument in itself has obvious inconsistencies that are apparent probably without even needing to read the articles he…

I have not said the sun goes up, so rent goes up – you might not have noticed that the sun goes…

Not only mitigated,…

And I'll take a taxation professor over a property lawyer when it comes to discussing matters of taxation, kthxbai.

Heh. But you’re on…

I'm not even going to talk about it.

For sure. I'm just saying it's not that common to find it here,…

that's a powerful argument :)

Give the renters high-quality high-density property and some will take it. NZ's big…

You're also going to have to persuade the renters that they want to rent high-density infill property…

I put it to…

The problem with a lot of the approaches to the thang that is the problem is that people look…

By and large increasing…

And their economically illiterate advisors like little lord fauntleroy of Dipton, ex-Treasury numpty skillfully stewarding another recession. And…

Did he? I’ll leave Matthew to respond for himself whether that’s accurate. I’d say the reasoning is more correctly described as “reducing excessive speculation”. The idea being to ecourage investment in areas that are the most productive, rather than an…