I'm predicting 12% for the Greens this time, level by 2014 and that they will lead the government after the 2017 election unless the Nats (by then incorporating ACT) work out an ingenious way to steal it.

They could overtake Labour as the main opposition party.

They seem more onto it.

I doubt any journos are fond of that

It does read like a media fishslapping contest.

It is a non issue.

I do, however, have a problem with his Helicopter use.

Then why does a certain ex-RadioNZ talkback host have a beef with Wellington’s mayor getting media training at public expense? Is it simply him being himself and shooting from the hip?

Key goes on to say that they paid no-one to get him on letterman. He explains this by saying that they retain…

I don't have to, NBR publishes a list for us.
:-)

'Very rich' is anyone who has over $10 million at their immediate disposal.

As an example would you consider Willie Jackson very rich and someone not worthy of respect?

Every tax dollar taken and spent unwisely is a dollar denied the humble have nots.

I beg to differ. What use would it be if the Country gained 10 Billion if that 10 billion just ended up in some "Rich Listers" trust account?
Remember, every dollar held by an avaristic "Have" is a dollar…

Ah yes but. John Keys (sic) says...
Mr Key has described the list as a "joke" which underestimates the net worth of those included while missing many other seriously wealthy people.
So, who do we believe?
Are there really…

quoted thus in another TVNZ story (text).

But Barry Colman, publisher of the National Business Review and number 45 on the Rich List, denied the wealth gap was widening on TV ONE's Close Up tonight.

"The gap between rich and poor is one of the most damaging myths…

The minimum wage needs a lift – it is the best way to boost an economy that has been mismanaged along the lines of a wait and see approach on the basis that it can't stay bad forever.…

and lest we forget the Nugan Hand / Indonesia link here's a chilling timeline (all anonymous…

…oh and these two clips

* Scary thing is, I think this is how John Key’s
mental processes work, too…

While there's no argument about Geithner's being a disaster, it's more…

Fascinating.

Worse, [ex Australian Treasurer and PM] Keating argued, Geithner's misjudgment had done terminal damage to the credibility of the IMF, with seismic geoeconomic consequences: "The IMF is the gun that can't shoot straight. They've been making a mess of things…

Perhaps this morning’s discussion could explore the difference between a heinie and a hinny … ;- )

Head-onism?
Pleasant dreams with the Pallow©
better those overstuffed Cabbage Patch Kids©
than…

Your Grandmother was called Floe? could have been a cool Chik?.
I’ll get my goat.
Wooo-oo-ooo, what a little typo can doo-oo-ooo
I remember an embarrassing moment with an obituary to a Beloved Aunt

;-)

Although, today more like an Iceflow
by my sainted and stranded
grandmother that's floe...

flows have eddies
and the Turtles did, too
keep it warm :- )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am6SVnGYD5M&feature=related

Well, there's ..... you
Although, today more like an Iceflow,
Don't cha know,
Erm ... Bro.

That was the earlier arrangement with social security, However there's more than one type of trade off. You may recall a top tax rate of 66% under Muldoon.

Icehawk, Bart is younger than you are.

But also taxpayers in the 70s, 80s…

Wasn't that Social Credit's main idea? It seems like a much simpler idea than welfare, I must say. Effectively it should be tax neutral on the current system, since employed people…

I'll disagree. You are guaranteeing…

Then In the interest of being fair to everyone it should apply to everything the family home just as it applies to the family farm.

None. If the light bulb needs to be changed, the market will take care of it.

They would also get $183,000 to play with, that they could use to buy another farm, or as security…

FFS, I give up. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.

Ask a libertarian

Estate Duty was forcing farming families off their land.

In the situation, at the time Estate Duty was zero rated, where say there was a farm valued at $600.00 owned by a widow with four children and ( two sons and two daughtes) and…

With the proposal the likely only exemption is the Family home – so it will apply to assets in a trust or settling assets into a trust.

The proposal will likely be that when an…

Cool, a thread I can contribute to – even if it's only to point out that Zephyrs came in…

Why yes, I was. How pedantic of you, let me re-phrase for those that are a little slow on the uptake...
So, how is the abolition of…

I hope you kept both letters and framed them.

"So, how is the abolition of Gift Tax going to affect all this come October 1st?."

It was an incredibly harsh tax able to be avoided by succesion planning.

What was happning, on account of inflation, a modest estate of a family home or a…

Which will, no doubt, be introduced under "URGENCY"

As for toothless hags, nest feathering, and have and have nots – Sweet Zombie Jesus what are you on about.

It is called Gift Duty.

To answer your…

At the age of about seven or eight, I wrote Max Cryer a letter complaining that he had incorrectly marked a contestant's answer wrong, and that the loss of the unjustly forfeited points had, in fact, cost that contestant the match.

He wrote back to say…

Yeah it comes from Hiram Codd, a British soft drink maker of the 1870s, who promoted drinks in a Codd-neck bottle, the terms codswallop is a derisive term for soft drinks by beer drinkers.

Wallop is an early slang for beer.

The initial derivation of he…

> "It is long past time for people who choose to live in this country stop their servile acceptance of glibly strung-together negatives about New Zealand. Kiwi modesty is fine, but self-flagellation with nihilistic criticism is…

I see Islander has already introduced the car version – I love those early 1938-40 models remind me of an old Rover 12 I used to have, running boards and wind out front windows and…

It was actually a serious question, one that was, obviously beneath you superior intellect. Or are you a fan of Deborah Coddington and you meant it as a compliment?
Hard to tell really.

Nah, not going to enhance the stereotype (but they were seriously nice cars.) My late great phantabulous uncle B also had a thing for Chrysler Valiants – you know when your family trusts you? They lend their NEW cars…

LOL. Nice. And I thought the cliches about Maori and their Zephyrs was all bs. I'm not sure when…

Means testing is like user pays.…

Oh I totally agree – it probably needs at the very least a 20yr run-in – but I think you need to make the statements now, otherwise we end up in the same argument again…

Yes, I did read your first sentence BUT it doesnt apply to my generation at all, and the fact…

Can I have an antipathy to means testing because I think it's gross?

Compulsion isn't a good thing for most people at various stages of their life – particularly those…

i would want to see numbers on that.

Seen it happening. Yes, the children were not blameless.

You mean by liquid the stuff that evaporates in a downturn or crisis.

No, I do not mean that.…

FTW.

"The horrid class of property investors who prey on them during this period are quite sickening.

Elder abuse is often done by children – I wouldn’t think "the horrid class" you are imagining would get a look in.

Either that,…

If it's a girl, Zanella Aprilia Guzzi Bimota.

If it's a boy, Ridley Norton Royal Enfield.

In fact owing to the FPP gerrymander, Muldoon's mandate came from a minority of voters for his entire tenure, and not even from the biggest group of voters for…

But it’s harder to lounge provocatively on …

oops too much time in Emma’s thread

What next, Hillman Humber 90 Super Minx?

Funny way to see it. My folks never voted for him. Even if they had, there have been 7 other PMs in NZ since who had various mandates…

Or a lack of focus on value. Including the sustainability of returns on investment (in more than just an economic sense too).

They still do. And too many of the rest of us don't. But it oversimplifies to take a generational snapshot as the basis of diagnosis. We all need to be part of what comes next.

Speaking for the whole "cohort" and baling them are we?

NZ super has always been paid out of the general tax take.

The original "Sovereign Weath Fund" (created…

I wonder whether their daughter is really called Porsche, or that a Herald reporter can't spell Portia? An aspirational name either way.

Indeed. You have to wonder what the marginal benefit of selling the trampoline would be when they are already selling…

Yes, they are making quite a strange choice, IMHO. They could sell one of the businesses and keep their kids toys. It sort…

Well you typically wouldn't agree to a contract if there was no good faith. But the good thing about them is you have protection against bad faith, so it makes good faith all the more likely.

Not…

No, I’m referring to what can happen if things get unstuck, and it's just the tip of the iceberg. People have the right to opt out of this kind of arms race without ridicule, whether they’re Sam Morgan or…

I'm not so sure about that. The theory is quite old, but the laws around contracts are older, and it's always been considered foolish to base them on decency and trust…

‘Aspiration’ isn’t such a good thing if it only leads to Mutually Assured Default. It’s just the same as that other MAD, but instead of nukes,…

So if it was offset against PAYE instead of paid in cash, it wouldn’t be?

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/b/7/7/49HansQ_20110713_00000002-2-Tax-System-Changes-Fairness.htm

I don't think he spent all of last week saying it – he probably did a lot of other things as well.

You're quite right. But pretty much everyone was stunned by the decision(s) to stop superannuation by those other governments. They didn't campaign on that policy and when the public realised what had been done to their future they booted the pricks…

Bill English and David Farrar spent last week telling fibs about the tax burden high-income families assume. I want to set the record straight with some details about how much the top 10% really pay

How do you figure that out?

Are you sayng the top 10% of income earners pay no tax?

Hence it is welfare. It just happens to disproportionately advantage wage and salary earners.

Is someone who sells a house (sorry, famileee home) at a $300k profit receiving…

Don't forget Treasury and their fellow LSE-influenced muppets in the late 70s/early 80s.

And to add, dropping Tabun canisters on Otahuhu, Te Atatu and Cannons Creek? Oh wait...

Um – you're talking about the 84 & 87 Labour Govts.

A month back, as I was going about my day, I saw one of these geezers, a former…

In late 2001, Labour created the Cullen Fund – which is actually the NZ superannuation Fund – which is NZ's sovereign wealth fund – it was…

That's because in the time the term was used, agreements were supposed to be based on decency and trust. Before…

See, I keep sticking on that point. Can you show me a copy of this contract? Can you provide evidence that the parties involved understood and agreed with it? Are there any signatories? Was there offer, acceptance and consideration? Was there some…

Ok, so I just went and read Keith Ng’s analysis and its freakin’ terrible – a 4th Form economics student could’ve picked it full of holes.

What a douche bag…..

Now that I've answered your question seriously and…

Keith, did you leave the door open to kiwiblog again?

This. Are the usual outlets too blinded by images of Route 66 to fisk it? Or does Big Trucking know…

Yes, clearly. That's why we've had all these people who've lost their jobs but our dole queue is non-existent. Right?
No, wait, it's loaded with hundreds-of-thousands of "bludgers" (I'm fairly sure, by your tone, that that's how you view them) who…

You're missing my point. It isn't because we owe them. Nor is it because we are morally compassionate, although I'm happy to have people help the old for that reason too.

It is because it is their money . They entered into a contract with their…

I'm thinking mainly of ensuring supporting infrastructure – including research, training, connectivity, business development and global market expertise – for sustainable high-value industries . I'm not sure that's what you mean by 'industrial policy' is it?

Aha. Now, lets say they've also got large funds located here, something that could easily be legislated for – say no more than a fixed percentage can be overseas.

Note that Australia has over 1.28 trillion Australian dollars in such funds. If we…

As an example – Fonterra, their biggest export is still "Milk Powder". In our "traditional industries" there is a massive room (further potential) for growth through innovation and added value – finding…

Ah, yes, of course they do, they could stack shelves at the supermarket or play professional Rugby with other hunky chaps…

So an imaginary nation, call it Smugland, has a prudent but aging population that saves well for their retirements. They’ve got large pension funds amassed overseas. Then they start wanting to bring the money home and convert it back into Smugs. The inflow of…

Tell that to the factoryhands and meatworkers of a generation ago. The same…

I'm thinking that it's simply a percentage of income, how it's done in Oz. We can start off low, like they did, and then within ten years everyone will be clamoring to raise it. The money is taken from pre-tax income…

is to improve the value produced per worker and business – improving productivity and strategically supporting smarter industries are two options there. And to stop assuming that people cease creating value at 65 or 67 or whenever.

It was fairly clear that extended economic stagnation in Japan and Germany came about from high levels of…

Has to come with means-testing as well of course...

WTF? That number is in Labour's $1.3b cost – Joyce has invented this huge influx of people from somewhere to suddenly have the cost almost doubling in 10 years. You can argue…

Having a big pile of money "saved" by those retirees doesn't actually change that, except insofar that it can buy imported goods.…

Actually, yes. They supported me when I was young, I support them when they are old. To say that they're supporting themselves by having supported me and that I'm supporting myself by supporting them is circuitous and quite pointless, requiring buy in to a contract…

If you add the size of the workforce, plus beneficiaries including super annuitants you get about 3 million – unless you can't count?

And uh, I assumed that Steve was talking about Hayek, not Hitler. Is Hayek a godwin now? I suppose there a large number of mustachioed Austrians to choose from.

Keith conveniently missed this.

If you can't even get that one right, I doubt the validity of any of your other arguments also.

no, a thousand times no.

You will pay for yourself, if you live that long, and while the govt is holding the money for you they will invest it in infrastructure and business in New Zealand. And yes, I remember at least two elections…

And your argument is so horrendously weak, that you have to resort to…

it also means that the…

While I can see the justice of taxing capital gains I am not so sure about governments taxing inflation that they…

It's a contract I never signed. I will pay for the oldies, but…

Because those over 65s have never paid tax in their lives?

Superannuation was a very simple contract between the voters and the government ... voters paid taxes that the govt would set aside and invest and then pay back…

Or combine 'monopoly' with 'nuclear war', as I did with some friends once (hey, don't judge me: we were young and going through an experimental phase, 'k?)

With one roll of a dice, make large…

oh THAT elephant in the room.

national super is the untouchable spend. old people vote en masse.

The net debt stays unchanged, and the return on capital is lost. Only if the SOE makes a lower ROI than the interest on government stock will…

There's about $4-5b which are legitimately challenged, where Labour has a case to answer. And yeah, that'll have a massive impact on their ability to pay off…

Usually, I thrash them, and prefer not to play them except to teach it. But yes, I seldom bother developing Mayfair unless for some reason the game has got to an advanced state and everyone has a lot of money. That's uncommon -…

What Russell said.

It was, may I say, an excellent question.

? I never sold anything unless I was already screwed, but I would often trade a utility with a big cash difference for any other kind of property, or neglect to buy a utility, given the chance, when I was low on cash. The…

That means Labour are about 7.5b off the mark and unlikely to be able to pay off any debt from these tax changes.

It is disturbing how variable such important financial predictions are,…