Labour can spend $20m advertising their policies and Tim Shadbolt will go to jail if he spends $121,000 without forming a…

For the record, and to give you the "on the other hand" you so clearly need in every statement

Well, as far as I'm concerned there really isn't much of 'on the other hand' here – either its out of line for everyone, and people of good will are willing…

For the record, and to give you the "on the…

Ah, Angus, so are you saying that the regulation of third parties is okay, as long as the caps are higher?

Yes, as long as the regulation is not more onerous upon third parties than upon political parties regulation is welcome. Every stream of political opinion should have the right…

...shut the fuck up, go sit on a beach for a while with a good book and plenty of sunblock, and avoid excessive consumption of caffeine or sugar until around mid-February.

Have a splendid holiday season, folks. I'm planning…

It aint such a bad thing to put up billboards comparing our elected political party leaders to various dictators and mass murderers, but oh my paws and whiskers, people gossip about sex. Please.

Alex: I'm really trying hard not to lose my shit in a seriously unseasonal, Grinch-like manner so…

But running an equally hysterical front page equating Brash to Pauline Hansen – you know the nice lady who opined it was a mistake ever letting the Abbos vote – wasn't ever so slightly offensive?

So IWI/KIWI implies what? Is it completley mad to draw the inference that Maori are…

When you put it as simply as you have, it does look a bit like the system will now probably provide a greater advantage for sitting…

can someone explain whether the new act impose restrictions on members of the public (both financial and in terms of freedom of speech) that MPs and political parties aren't bound by?

There is an exemption in the EFA for publications published by MPs in their capacities as MPs, which means…

The leaders' fund. i.e. If an act by a third party is deemed to be electioneering, is it then also something that cannot be funded out of the leaders' fund? And vice versa.

A very vexed question.

Basically, the answer is no. A pledge card expounding on Labour's policy's for…

So, you're saying that non-political parties should be able to voice their opinions with as much money as they want, because that's what democracy is all about, but if you put them on a ballot paper, then they're a waste of space?

Yes, I am saying that whilst I agree…

Indeed...

Preview is my friend, just not one one I visit often enough.

electioneering for what purpose? Whether Parliamentary leader's fund money can be spent on it, or whether it has to be included in the spending cap?

The leaders' fund. i.e. If an act by a third party is deemed to be electioneering, is it then also something that cannot be funded…

Didn't Don Brash accuse the Greens of treachery for representing NZ poorly to people overseas? Isn't this the same?

No, Don – then again, I'm one of those cranks who thinks 'treachery' is another T-word (like 'terrorism') that shouldn't be thrown around carelessly if you want to be taken at…

Good idea Keith.

Every New Zealander will have one last reminder on how to most appropriately thank Labour for their EFA come November, as we stand in line 10x as long waiting patiently to fill in a ballot with a 100 new "parties". The recounts looking at spoiled ballots, the…

What I have read about the US suggests that regulating "electioneering" is a form of whack-a-mole, in which everyone goes about influencing elections through issue advertising and 527's.

Yup, McCain-Fiengold sure didn't turn out to be to the magic bullet its more optimistic proponents were selling it as. I sure…

are the standards for judging what constitutes electioneering the same for parliamentary material and third party material?

electioneering for what purpose? Whether Parliamentary leader's fund money can be spent on it, or whether it has to be included in the spending cap?

Boscawen et al have to do a bit more than start a political party to access the higher limit: they also need to run candidates and/or contest the party list. Not that that's a Bad Thing at all.

Contesting the party list isn't that hard, is it? I mean, *winning*…

Not PC: Darnton offers Libz political party as 'flag of convenience' for free speech

He said he regretted that, I wonder if he regrets supporting these?

Well, DPF and his friends have jumped the shark.

I don't think they grasp what nutters they've made themselves look.

Good. Lord.
The only times I've ever ventured into Kiwiblog comments has been off links here, but I still cannot begin to fathom that these people are even mildly serious...

The Helen Clark billboard is was put up today near Auckland Airport

That would be Auckland *International* Airport.

Didn't Don Brash accuse the Greens of treachery for representing NZ poorly to people overseas? Isn't this the same?

I don't think they grasp what nutters they've made themselves look.

So, those saying "we'll just form a party" will need to go beyond that, and actually run candidates. otherwise, non-contsting parties are treated as third parties.

What happens if a party registers itself, etc. early in the year and then fails to get it's act together to actually field any…

This is largely self-perpetuating, too. The publishers of the Herald don't instruct it to be right-wing (to judge from their other papers like the London Independent). What I…

if it means people like you won't be able to phone-spam with your expensive astroturf campaigns

Russell, "Astroturf" specifically refers (as the name suggests) to "fake grass-roots" – rich backers covertly setting up and funding supposedly community based lobbies. Boscawen has been totally up front about his ties to Act,…

And I'd say this is another debate that would have been better served without the evangelical self-righteousness of large parts of the left.

ha ha ha ROTFLMFAO.

"Attack on democracy"
"End of Freedom of Speech"

Damn those self righteous lefties.

Here is a little reminder about stupidity the sort of…

And for the record, the only way the EMPU is going to influence my vote is if Andrew Little agrees to role-play Mellors to my Constance Chatterly. Which would constitue a corrupt practice, just not in the sense intended by the Electoral Act

That slash is getting everywhere these days.…

What I have read about the US suggests that regulating "electioneering" is a form of whack-a-mole, in which…

Really, I'd rather see (for the sake of argument) the EMPU running that kind of campaign with their own resources explicitly, rather than the too cute for words semantic two-step the unions trot out every election cycle.

I'm not sure I know that dance – I'm sure I'd recognise it…

And for the record, the only way the EMPU is going to influence my vote is if Andrew Little agrees to role-play Mellors to my Constance Chatterly. Which would constitue a corrupt practice, just not in the sense intended by the Electoral Act.

Tell me you're never, ever leaving us,…

Provided there is proper and adequate identification of the parties doing the spending.... does there…

Every New Zealander will have one last reminder on how to most appropriately thank Labour for their EFA come November, as we stand in line 10x as long waiting patiently to fill in a ballot with a 100 new "parties". The recounts looking at spoiled ballots, the…

and encouraging people to vote for candidates who feel the same

With that, it is an election advertisement.

And I am more than happy with that. If you want to run a huge million dollar campaign arguing for a 63% tax rate on business and outlining all the lovely reasons…

Craig, I just though I'd say I'm appreciating your various efforts to render then internet sensible.

Aye, I second that. No worries, Craig.

To avoid sounding like Trevor Mallard, it was not only an unwise choice of words but unfair, untrue and failed to display the basic civility of debate I expect to be shown by others.…

Boscawen had the same pivotal effect with me too. I was uneasy, but then I thought, if it means people like you won't be able to phone-spam with your expensive astroturf campaigns, then maybe that's a good thing ...

Russell: There are times of day when I'd like to see…

But given you went to the trouble of quoting a section of the Act rather than a clause in the Bill, I thought I'd have some fun.

And it hasn't appeared on legislation.govt.nz yet, because it's not yet a law. Not for a couple of days yet. I…

Where a party is listed in the part of the ballot paper that relates to the party vote, the party's election…

It's not "electioneering".

I/S – I think you missed this bit:

and encouraging people to vote for candidates who feel the same

With that, it is an election advertisement.

Boscawen et al have to do a bit more than start a political party to access the higher limit: they also need to run candidates and/or contest the party list. Not that that's a Bad Thing at all.

See s84(1) of the Electoral Finance Act.

I/S – that would be:…

And I'd say this is another debate that would have been better served without the evangelical self-righteousness of large parts of the left.

I may be self-righteous (who isn't, when it comes to democracy?), but at least I can read a statute properly.

The blunt fact is that this law…

Really, this debate would have been a lot easier without the constant FUD from the right.

And I'd say this is another debate that would have been better served without the evangelical self-righteousness of large parts of the left.

Take that, plutocrats!

Pluto isn't even a real planet, fascist! Golly, you are right – this is fun. Come on hit me again! "Tool of the military-industrial complex" is a particular turn on.

And when they want to spend $120,000-$1m on an election, they just have to register as a political party, so that they undergo the same degree of scrutiny as all the other political parties.

How about we split the difference and regulate them to exactly the same extent as incumbent…

(See s84(1) of the Electoral Finance Act. Cthulhu, I love saying that.…

Well, National has member who are dramatically opposed on a lot of social issues, too.

Sure, and I don't see why the hell people like DPF and I can blog our fingers into stumps in favour of (say) amending the Marriage Act to give same-sex couples full equality before the…

He never said that the abolitionist or the suffragette campaigns would have been defeated or even hampered by the EFA, so if you took his words at face value,…

So you think it does that?

:-)

Quit teasing and post, damnit! 8-)

I have got a great idea for every post i make! I'll create a straw man argument, demolish it, then use that to show how easy it is to delude myself that my bitter cynicism is cleverness.

Craig, I think he's talking about me. 8-) But thanks for taking that…

And that's all I'm saying – SST, FF, Brethrens, etc.,…

I think saying they should have fucked off and formed a political party is a pretty coarse and frankly stupid conception of what being an engaged citizen is.

Note, Keith said 'third party', not 'political party'. You've tangled up his later comments on 'you could just form a political party'…

if it means people like you won't be able to phone-spam with your expensive astroturf campaigns, then maybe that's a good thing ...

So you think it does that?

:-)

isn't the main difference between the abolitionist era and the current that we allow dissenting political parties a voice? or at the least, that it's much more difficult to dispose of dissenters without great risk to ourselves(germanys…

These kinds of rhetorical reacharounds are grossly offensive.

Really, Keith? The great abolitionist movements in the United Kingdom and the United States contained all kinds of people whose common cause was regarding human slavery as an unspeakable evil despite their political views often being dramatically opposed on every other point.…