The institutional response to disability is so often to objectify, to treat a person as a set…

you, sir, are no social worker :)

And yet they've been friends for 14 years. I'm not sure there's a manual for…

I agree, it is a complex business. I started off from the beginning of not wanting to pathologise Paul, make him a…

I lied about the final word. Just skimming the Executive Summary of this research points to what I'm saying. It even talks of the status quo, silencing and systemic failures.

Well, that's the $1m question isn't it?! After reading about the likes of Parklands and the other support person recently convicted, I'd say no. I'd say he's shone a light on the tip of a very large iceberg -…

Not sure who you're lecturing here, Like, you think…

I’m not “bagging” individuals, just refering to a societal norm that has left disabled people disadvantaged and lacking control over their lives and resources, just like women, people of colour, religious minorities, sexual minorities etc etc have…

Quite possibly, yes. Most people who have experienced rape or sexual abuse choose not to have their story published in the media.

This discussion has been really interesting around that matter.

Now, in as far as Paul's consent goes. Right, Paul knows I write. I have told him I wrote something about him and it is on the internet. Paul doesn't know what the Internet is, really.…

Well, that's the easier belief to choose to sit with.

It sounds to me like he was initiating it, much more than being exploited. On the first time, you could maybe call it an exploitation. But he kept at it. Then after a while decided it wasn't a good idea.…

All good. Just thinking ahead :-)

“Can Paul legally have sex with people of his choosing”? It would seem to me that he can, he has enough agency to…

Yup, and DiversityNZ makes the same point himself in practically the opening of his own post. I agreed with this in particular:

one that someone has had the…

Thanks for the support Islander, but actually I disagree. DiversityNZ has good points too. He's just making his points strongly, which I take to indicate sincere belief in this case.

I don't think Ben realised that's what he was saying ;-)

I deserve what a taxpaying citizen of ANZ should get -BUT- my visual disablilities
have been ameliorated – by the State – since I was 7…

how long – and to what extent- should fellow-citizens expect to…

I agree. And many people on this thread know about poor, inadequate, inappropriate or non-existent disability services. Yet we are still meant to be…

I beg to differ, with respect. Ben & David have made the same points that have been made for centuries and have led you to feeling grateful for something less than you deserve. I'm changing the conversation. I…

LOL. Nice one Ben. You’ve described, in 11 words, the entire disability support ethos in NZ.

And before you say that I don’t have “to actually do it,” I recruit, induct and manage my support crew every day of…

People First NZ (2010) A place of our own; living with the legacy of institutionalisation (People First members tell their -…

So would you (David or readers here) be happy to be ‘Paul’ as portrayed here?

My answer was yes and remains so, because I interpret that question as about the way the article was written, which doesn't worry…

Quite. But he's a doctrinaire libertarian. It's how they roll.

That appears to be his shtick. His opinion-pieces are all the same – just different topics.

I think outright ridicule is a good starting point. I'm quite astonished, really, that he could be so frank about being a total bastard.

The Human Rights Act, an asinine piece of legislation, makes it illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of their family status. Naturally, some idiot went to court.

Right.... Actually, I agree with his headline, but I have a different definition of the…

Actually, yes. I think David did a great job, not just in the writing, but in maintaining an appropriate level of anonymity for Paul.

However, there is something about this post that has been worrying me and I think it comes down to that ethical test about…

Admirably clear. And rare.

It was filtered through me. You didn't get Paul, you got my experience of him. Paul is much, much richer than I made him.

...

The great range of being human is…

I thought that shone through.

Oddly what I liked most about this piece was it's "plainness". Which is not meant in any way to imply the writing is plain. But more that it is a (deceptively) simple retelling of a plain simple relationship between friends.

If anything rather than objectifying a…

I wrote the piece out of admiration for Paul, and pride in Paul, respect for Paul, and a huge, huge regard for Paul. He drives me nuts…

OK, fair enough, I retract that estimation of probabilities, which comes mostly from my own experience of feeling uncomfortable myself. It's pretty natural to feel uncomfortable around adults…

Society's expectations include people speaking on behalf of disabled people as being OK, so I can understand Dylan's reaction.

Perhaps David can shed light on…

Fair enough, and it takes some courage for you to say so. I just think you've missed the richness…

That's an unfair and untrue comment. My discomfort came from the article, not Paul. I thought…

Paul's disability doesn't define him, but it has shaped much of his life. It's what Paul and those who know him have to work with.

Quite the opposite of objectifying…

Given that he's intellectually disabled, the likelihood of this being coherent is low. Do you think that such people's stories should only be told by them? My aunt is also intellectually disabled, but in a profound way. She can't read or write, doesn't…

I think also there will be a range of views on this within the disability community, and being disabled,…

Who else is going to tell Paul's story? Ben and I both have disabled kids, David is…

It is an extremely difficult subject to write about. The question of the agency of the subjects is tricky. But David made clear from the very first paragraph that Paul tells his story all…

I do not wish to diminish the good the author has done for Paul throughout his life, and I appreciate this article was probably written with the best of intentions, but…

It strikes me that you’ve provided Paul with something no one in a formal position of care could – not just agency, but…

I treat Paul as much as possible like I’d treat anyone. I demand the same care from him as I would demand from anyone else.

And thank you for this jewel. A reminder and a challenge for me.