Public Address | Cafe | Notes & Queries: Little CD in a Prospect of Flowers

Jennifer Dalziel

Sat, 10 May 2014 14:51:05 +1200

Absolutely I thought D C Hills article was really great. It is hard when you are used to being ogled.. to not be ogled. Your ego doesnt get that boost every time you go out in public, All those people that look at you are potential friends or lovers. when…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 05 Mar 2014 09:47:11 +1300

Sorry Maggie B, but there are many reputable studies which question the validity of the copy cat effect.

An interesting discussion. Yes the coroner has questioned this and there's been a discussion about changing the media guidelines. But should media (if David's column is to be considered as such) just…

Jackie Clark

Tue, 04 Mar 2014 07:00:45 +1300

There are so many things I want to say to you. There is a temptation to say things which I'm afraid will be wrong – patronising, insulting. I don't know you so I don't know how what I say will appear to you.
So I'll start with this.
I'm glad…

Virginia Brooks

Mon, 03 Mar 2014 23:14:49 +1300

walk safe Scooter & companion animals are great. Hope your psych appointment goes well.
I don't know where your journey is at exactly, but Pathways provide a variety of effective services: www.pathways.co.nz
Maybe your dc can refer you there while you are waiting for the psych appointment?
Could be worth a…

Scooter Motoretta

Sun, 02 Mar 2014 23:43:56 +1300

I think a lot of what happened to Cameron Slater, he bought down on himself. He could have shown a lot more humility. Humility doesn't equal weakness, it shows that you can accept criticism instead of snapping like a cornered hyaena. Your comments about a lack of mental health services…

Miche Campbell

Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:25:17 +1300

Oh, I know they won't be ashamed.

I also know that I'm the one who decides what's important for me to talk about, thanks.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:38:40 +1300

Scratch 'n' sniff...
So great that AK79 captures the energy of those days.
An encapsulation of enthusiasm and exuberance.
Smells like teen spirit...

~( { ; > ) #

Aotearoan

Wed, 26 Feb 2014 12:03:20 +1300

Music and dancing get directly to the soul. Those are great lasting memories you have, David- and intimate to your friendship. Lucky stuff.

My (equally young) girlfriend and I used to hitch up from Wellington to dance til the morning at Zwines when I wor a nipper.

So great that…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:22:00 +1300

Is it bullying to criticise what someone writes?

No – but how you do it most certainly can be. Do I think a certain Tweet Charlotte directed at Lorde was ill-judged and somewhat impertinent? Yes — but far too much of the reaction (both on-line and in the media) was…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:21:14 +1300

Herald ought to be ashamed

hehe you made a funny.

You know I'd be happy to stop talking about Cone and the Herald. There are more important things on the table. Some folks have lost a friend. All of us have been reminded how fragile life is and how easy…

Miche Campbell

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 22:02:02 +1300

Are you serious? She ought to be ashamed of herself for writing it and the Herald ought to be ashamed of itself for publishing it.

I'm not of the opinion that we should not "speak ill of the dead," but Deborah Hill Cone's article was unnecessary, tone-deaf, and just plain…

linger

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:08:16 +1300

* The first reference link seems no longer to work; try 10 Ways to Show Love to Someone With Depression

David Herkt

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:58:30 +1300

Aotearoan, her dancing to Proud Scum was amazing. She had a real fondness for the AK79 album. I think she was word perfect for the whole album. ‘I don’t feel any pain…’ she’d sing along with Chris Knox. It was really nice when she put it on and really real…

Lilith __

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:52:03 +1300

Is it bullying to criticise what someone writes? I understand that a large number of people independently saying critical things can be hurtful, but I don't see how we can avoid it.

My understanding of opinion columns is they are intended to be provoking.

Are we supposed to ignore the…

Jackie Clark

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 16:40:41 +1300

I really think the more we talk about this – suicide – the better. I'm with Virgina – we so tend to go with head in the sand and it's not working. There are a number of reasons for our high suicide rate, I believe – a high rate of…

Lara

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 16:20:38 +1300

Thank you, David and Virginia, for sharing. I am sorry.

I’m a human being, not a DIY project you – or anyone else – can fix.

Yes.

Shit. Now I'm crying too.

Aotearoan

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:32:36 +1300

Condolences, David. Having had a few friends kill themselves now, I find suicide awfully sad more than anything, And yes, how someone does it makes a difference. I feel much better about the terminally ill friend that upped his morphine dose than the depressed mate who hung himself. Brutal.

DHC's…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:09:42 +1300

like a car

In that case it's definitely best if I stay quite far away :).

The house I can fix :).

I think the problem for me is I can fix quite a lot of things. I even have experience with many human problems and can pass on that…

Sacha

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:02:33 +1300

the best thing I can do is just listen
except when something needs fixing. like a car or a house.

Kyle MacDonald

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:49:19 +1300

I just wouldn't want to see DHC, who has her own issues, become the subject of an angry internet pile-on. Although it's probably a bit late for that.

Quite. We can easily become blind to bullying when we attack from the moral high ground. Seems a real shame that's been…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:35:56 +1300

you – or anyone else – can fix

Yup hardest thing for me to do is NOT try and fix someone. It goes against everything in my nature. I fail at NOT trying to fix a lot. I do try and remember about the best thing I can do is…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:58:41 +1300

I’m sure it wasn’t meant to be bullying, but projecting her experience onto someone else like that was foolish and inappropriate.

Yeah, and to be honest DHC was very far from the worse offender when it came to well-intentioned but tone-deaf and seriously distasteful projection. I cannot speak with any…

WH

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:28:17 +1300

I did not know Charlotte, but remember that many of the remarks made about her were simply feral.

The silences that we use to show respect for the dead are often used to conceal the supreme indifference shown to vulnerable people while they are alive. The calculated cruelty of the…

Lilith __

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:19:14 +1300

I'm sorry for your loss Virginia. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Lilith __

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:16:45 +1300

I didn't mean to make things worse. That column made me really angry and I don't think it should have been published.

Totally agree with Bart that we need to have more conversations on this subject.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:12:07 +1300

And as the chief coroner has pointed out, not reporting suicide in a realistic manner is NOT working.

THIS

The question of how to reduce the number of suicides is not a simple one. About 550 people committed suicide last year compared to a road toll of 350ish.

Back in…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:28:49 +1300

The Press weighs in with a galling editorial that wipes its hands of any complicity and decides we just have to live with it.
Blinkered?
Much!

Russell Brown

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:59:09 +1300

As far as I’m concerned DHC and her armchair psychologising can fuck right off. How dare she be so patronising? It’s just more bullying.

I'm sure it wasn't meant to be bullying, but projecting her experience onto someone else like that was foolish and inappropriate. Ironically, that is kind of…

Virginia Brooks

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 07:43:54 +1300

Thank you Jackie.
Not being able to discuss the topic as a society is like cultural omerta. The zipped lips. The refusal to acknowledge. Or like averting the evil eye, weaving a magical protection 'look away now', 'don't talk about it so it wont happen'. The obligatory silence around suicide…

Jackie Clark

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 06:43:45 +1300

Virginia, I am so sorry that your son suicided. I am also very glad that you shared a bit of your story. Thank you.

Virginia Brooks

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 01:10:21 +1300

Read the intro again Maggie. Its not meant to be taken literally. It highlights the perfectly ironic timing of it all.
Gotta love the universe.

Virginia Brooks

Tue, 25 Feb 2014 00:57:38 +1300

Thank you David, for telling your story about your friend Charlotte, it is a great tribute to her. You have the courage to be raw and honest and tell us how she died in a simple straight forward manner. Your telling has dignity.

Sorry Maggie B, but there are many…

Sacha

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 22:35:53 +1300

a suggestion that method not be detailed, and links to research that contributed to this advice

Can't see the evidence there – can you point it out.

It has happened quite a few times in schools

Indeed, I have only seen the 'copycat' effect described for teenagers, not older people.

MaggieB

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 22:25:20 +1300

On another point, I think the allusion to the suicide being timed for media exposure unlikely to be true, despite how media savvy Ms Dawson was. Suicide is often unplanned and responding to an overwhelming sense of despair that is hard to overcome or delay. That she was having to…

MaggieB

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 22:20:57 +1300

I would really appreciate it if the author could remove the mention of the method of death please. Previous cases and suicide research (which I've reviewed for a suicide prevention guideline in NZ) suggests that some vulnerable people can have their own depression triggered by media portrayals of suicide and…

Lilith __

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 20:55:10 +1300

As far as I'm concerned DHC and her armchair psychologising can fuck right off. How dare she be so patronising? It's just more bullying.

Thanks for bringing CD to life for us David. I'm sorry for your loss.

David Herkt

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 20:33:15 +1300

The detail about Charlotte's method of death was in the Australian papers, Raymond. I guess it is a matter of national media differences that it wasn't reported here. I know its not nice, at all. And as far as "should we be told", yes, I think we should.

Tristan

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 20:23:11 +1300

This is a very personal story about a dear friend and your grief must be very raw. Thank you for sharing this with us David I have something in both my eyes

Raymond A Francis

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:50:08 +1300

Should we be told the method that Charlotte used to end her life?
Other than that my feelings mirror Bart’s and just a pity she did not have just a few more real friends

SHG

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:20:34 +1300

That is still an extremely ill-advised column.

In what way? Looks to me like she was on the money.

Russell Brown

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:19:25 +1300

So Deborah Hill Cone was right then?

Only by accident. That is still an extremely ill-advised column.

SHG

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:57:26 +1300

Herkt: "She felt herself to be old – ‘old, old, old’ was one reiteration I remember as she watched a clip of herself on TV. "

So Deborah Hill Cone was right then?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11208554

Russell Brown

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:38:30 +1300

While the abuse Charlotte received on Twitter was hideous, it's perhaps worth recalling what it was apparently acceptable to call her on mainstream TV in 2004.

Russell Brown

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:34:28 +1300

The day after the news about Charlotte, I got a call to say that another acquaintance, about the same age, had died. I hadn't seen him in years, but I didn't have to hear the cause of death to guess it was suicide. Hanging, in fact.

I wondered if there…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:19:20 +1300

Suicides leave me sad. Particularly one such as this where a long battle with depression precedes the death. Without ever knowing her I'm left convinced that "if only I could have ..." as completely irrational as that thought may be. I can only imagine how much worse that "if only"…

Russell Brown

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:47:00 +1300

I never knew Charlotte well, but we ran with the same crowd in the early 1980s and I can confirm that she was not (she must have been 16 at the time) an ugly adolescent. I recall her looking quite different to the Charlotte we all knew later — elfin,…

Public Address

Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:47:00 +1300

Discussion from blog post.