Now for Americas most wanted. My Guilty secret is revealed.

The main difference between Guilty 13 years ago and Not Guilty this time round

About 10 million dollars, a whole lot less suppressed evidence, and a defense lawyer who thought his client was innocent.

...

The only thing suppressed about the tape was what was "claimed to be heard", not…

What was written on the computor after the blood lust rage of killing five members of a family? = Ego.

With eveyone dead where does the estate go? = Money.

Who could do such a thing? = Psycopath

But of course I'm wrong…

"In every murder, the killer always leaves something behind"

-to wit, fibres from DB's jersey under Stephen's nails, and (contested) glasses' lens/footprint) –

"and alwayys takes something with him" (sic.)

To wit: Stephen's bloodstains on personal clothing; wounds on…

I would only opt for that explanation if he was thoroughly pyschiatrically examined & so diagnosed.

I can imagine other reasons for such slayings – but they'd be only that, one person's imaginings.

"I shot the prick, but I didn't shoot the others down

I shot the prick, then I went and did my paper round....."

And then the book..

"My years of pain" by the Unslain…

No, I am not concerned DB…

For me in that call, Davids clarity (fall out of character) of the last four numbers were telling. This under the breath utterance fits totally with my impression of…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2491659/Bain-loses-bid-to-keep-111-tape-secret

Heaven, Steve, have you never heard of the Frebblie? Or the Frossil? Or even the Frabbit?

I'm frummoxed.

(But not by a conservative.)

dead canary
Iron Mountain

cheers
Zane Dalili
Flawed Funster

Mr Barnes, how are you freeling?

Freeling?
Now you've lost me.

I rest my case...

Mr Barnes, how are you freeling?

yrs
Rupert Shellgame
Valis – in high orbit

Knowledge Bro you'll find yourself buying Rheineck lager any day soon

Call me old fashioned but I value my corpus striatum and will avoid a wry neck. I shun change, it is as good as arrest.
Any further attempts of clonealism will be met on all…

indeed a talented chap...

Damn, the game is up and my insisdious assault
on genetic diversity on Earth is over...

It's true, all those people above used to be distinct
individuals until they slowly morphed into the multiple
mess of me that is spreading about your…

Folks, the days of strain and struggle are over...
– we have a vowel movement!

Whew! – just when we was about to pop a collective o-ring.

"We have learned in that period that vowels are extremely important to New Zealanders"

Folks, the days of strain and struggle are over...
– we have a vowel movement!

A E I O U get offa my cloud...

poetry in motion

Yrs
Pit Man
__Short handed…

LOL, as I believe teh kidz say.

And TV2, for a while, at least.

TVNZ scraps text ads after backlash

"We have learned in that period that vowels are extremely important to New Zealanders"

I love the taste of irony for breakfast.

المعرفة وإخوانه

Fixed. It's a particular combination of characters that does it.

In the interests of keeping this character-contact-driven system stable, I'm just going outside to watch out for bolders I may be some time...
(he said huskily)

yrs
Captain Oats
__Help me get my…

That it will. Please, no edit button. It will indeed Rob us of humility.

I've called for an edit button before but I think I'm with Steven on this. If nothing else I think the need to get it right first time contributes to more thoughtful PAS posting – after…

Ur, why am I coming over all bold??

Moon waning gibbous 97% full?
Whatever, it ain't just you.

Apros 'police making errors': Sofie, two of my family have experienced this (including a callout by the non-official AOS – o yes! there is such! – which was occaisioned by a very malign – and unjustified- complainant indeed. Who's dead just now, & I am very…

We don't need no stinkin' edit button.

When we make "mistakes" its just YNORI

Noooo, the Edit button will destroy us all...

Even that wily old Cnut knew he ccouldn't turn back the edit!

yrs
Sweyn Forkbeard
Dane Rotter

heard something about evidence that didn't get to the jury that I still struggle to believe. But from a pretty good source ..

So have I. But I think people will be repeating variations on this theme for many years to come. As people continue to argue over many other…

please

It's coming and it might have been here sooner had one of our developers not been a rockstar in iPhone dev, and thus away at the Apple WWDC.

Meanwhile ... I heard something about evidence that didn't get to the jury that I still struggle to believe. But from…

.
.
.
.
please

Given that the Herald drops thousands of its papers in letterboxes every morning, the copies remaining in libraries are probably the lesser cock-up.

Yes, that's a given. But all of those are now in private hands, which isn't a concern.

What I was getting at is that APN's cock-up has…

A mate of mine in his early 20s used to wear a toupee. Playing Rugby with head gear on, just to keep the locks down.
Thankfully a few boys started to shave their heads and he got the courage to bear it…

Even when I've turned up, that's when I wear the suit, silk tie & bling rings.

So that probably wasn't you in the beige safari suit and aryan-blonde obvious toupee, who appeared well pleased to be picked for jury service at the same session where I got rejected.

I think the Jury is the best system and still I do my best to avoid it. Even when I've turned up, that's when I wear the suit, silk tie & bling rings. I was told to dress up or down to avoid being picked…

I bottowed a copy from a local library here.

The conclusion that the author…

Well, yeah, that's kinda my point. Short answer: no, of course we don't. But what I was trying to establish last night was whether there was an issue or not, and it would appear that there potentially is.

And fair enough too, I just doubt that libraries (most of whom…

I wonder if we really want public libraries — which are having a tough enough time acting as our public memory banks — should start pre-emptively vandalising newspapers for fear of litigation?

Well, yeah, that's kinda my point. Short answer: no, of course we don't. But what I was trying…

Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure I read someone from the prosecution team complaining that while they had to disclose everything to the defence, the defence could take months assemble its expert witnesses and only unveil them when they got to court ...

This changed with the Criminal Procedure Bill. One…

I wonder if public libraries (or similar) are thinking these issues through to this extent?

I wonder if we really want public libraries — which are having a tough enough time acting as our public memory banks — should start pre-emptively vandalising newspapers for fear of litigation?

Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure I read someone from the prosecution team complaining that while they had to disclose everything to the defence, the defence could take months assemble its expert witnesses and only unveil them when they got to court ...

Yes. It's not a game, the police are…

I wonder if public libraries (or similar) are thinking these issues through to this extent?

It would appear that The Herald has completely screwed the pooch on this one.

They didn't publish it, so they're alright?

No. By making it available to the public they probably are publishing the material. But it would depend on the prohibition in the particular suppressed judgment. Just don't automatically think that publication in this sense is as broad as it is in defamation…

Would you then want to hug the accused? And go to a party with him?

That did occur to me.

I would posit that the members of the jury greatly differed in their assessments. Some likely think David probably guilty, others that Robin is the more likely killer. All they…

It can't be to protect evidence for a future trial, because there can never be one.

Is it to protect David Bain's reputation from evidence that couldn't be tested in court? If so, couldn't that be done by stripping privilege…

Privately held hardcopies are one thing...

Damn straight they are one thing – they're perfectly legal. The offence of breach of suppression/breach of an order prohibiting publication occurs in the publishing of the material – in the media, or on the Internet. Having a copy doesn't amount to a breach;…

I'll go one further: does Russell need to come to my house and personally delete the cache on my computer?

Now, it was a semi-serious question, but it may have come out as incoherent gibberish after a 12-hr day trying to work out how many patent claims can dance on…

Talisker. $85 a bottle at Pt Chev Super Liquor. That's as much as $30 cheaper than some other places.

I'll take that in unmarked drams. Leave the suitcase in the usual place.

And does he need to bring a nice single malt with him?

Talisker. $85 a bottle at Pt Chev Super Liquor. That's as much as $30 cheaper than some other places.

I feel able to share this with y'all having determined that it's not a mistake, just parallel importing. I…

Now, I'm assuming that the front page story on Saturday was the one that was the subject of a suppression order (that's what I've been told).

So that hard copy of the paper will be more or less freely available to anyone who cares to…

It appears that the Herald has now removed its own story, having become aware that the Court of Appeal placed a permanent suppression order on the evidence.

Epic Herald Fail.

So tempting to go and dig the hardcopy of the Saturday edition out of the recycle bin. But I mustn't!…

I've left in discussion about why such evidence is deemed prejudicial, because it's useful and…

This reminds me of being told that a friend's father had said "well, I don't hate maoris but I wouldn't invite one into my home"

Sorry but I find that comparison quite offensive. My discomfort is focussed on a single individual whom a jury has found not guilty. I'm saying…

I understand people's discomfort with the propensity rules, but another way of looking at the matter is that the Crown has unlimited resources with which to pursue someone. In most cases the defendant's resources are minimal. And in most cases that go to trial the defendant loses.

Oddly enough, I'm…

How on earth can…

I probably would be uncomfortable inviting him into my home

This reminds me of being told that a friend's father had said "well, I don't hate maoris but I wouldn't invite one into my home"

Who was Lundy and who did he kill, anyway?

http://www.crime.co.nz/c-files.aspx?ID=10286

As I understand it, the question about whether this a wrongful conviction or not revolves around whether it would have been physically possible for him to get between A and B to actually commit the crime.

I understand why — Robin was not the defendant — but it is a paradox.

I wonder how the whole thing would be different if the defence were trying to say "It was the other guy" and the other guy was still alive.

Probably a lot easier to do when…

Lundy was convicted of axing his wife & daughter to death, but to do so, it seems he had to drive from Petone to Palmie, park the car half a k away, enter his house, butcher his family, clean himself up, get back to his car & drive back to…

It still seems a a paradox to me that the defence was able to introduce some pretty tenuous stuff to depict a propensity to murder on Robin's part

The defence also, in my view, pushed some pretty distasteful buttons around Robin Bain's alleged "depression".

Just when you think we're taking a…

Interesting comparison with Jarrod Booker's reasons to acquit in the Weekend Herald.

It strikes me that there would have been at least as much doubt — and perhaps more…

some of the jury's conduct could be seem to verge on an inappropriate level of emotional investment in the defendant

Hell yes. It's pretty much a case of what were they thinking? But it does suggest to me that at least a couple of the jury were convinced he was…

Can someone tell me how cell phone calls work?

The cellphone logs in to a cellsite. This gets recorded, along with any calls.

To spoof a cellphone call, depending on the system, you'd have to either:
– clone the phone or SIM
– alter the service providers records

Who was…

We're going through the reporting for this week's TV show. Some of it is really quite embarrassing.

I'm also beginning to wonder if its dangerous — if someone is accused of murder, surely there's a happy medium between cackling at the foot of the guillotine (and decrying due process as…

That did occur to me. OTOH, some of the jury's conduct could be seem to verge on an inappropriate level of emotional investment in the defendant.

Yeah, and I've long wondered whether some of the media should get a room already:

In the end, the deep, beautiful singing voice that…

. . . an inappropriate level of emotional investment in the defendant.

Something akin to Stockholm syndrome, perhaps?

Would you then want to hug the accused? And go to a party with him?

That did occur to me. OTOH, some of the jury's conduct could be seem to verge on an inappropriate level of emotional investment in the defendant.

I can understand the Jury finally deciding that they were not sure of his guilt. They asked the judge for a definition of reasonable doubt and that what he told them "that they must be sure..."

And as a result I can see the jury…

being a weirdo does not ipso facto make you a mass murderer.

Try telling that to our boys in (pale) blue.

New Globe Dork

And a witness placed him in the neighbourhood at the time, dressed as a woman.

Last time I looked, being a transvestite — or a moody middle-aged man — wasn't a crime. Here's what really creeps me out about this, we've heard a lot of "X. healed puppies with his…

I know I shouldn't, but that raised a chortle.

When asked how she'd coped with the ordeal of wrongful imprisonment, Lindy Chamberlain admitted that she'd learned to laugh at dingo jokes while working in the laundry at Darwin's Berrima jail.

she'd slandered Australian wildlife

I know I shouldn't, but that raised a chortle.

And at the end of it all, five people were murdered in their own home. That appears to have gotten lost somewhere... which is sad, but not surprising.

Agreed, except for the possibility that one of those five may have, for all most of us know, died by their own…

I have no idea whether he 'did it' or not. Can't be bothered wading through the evidence.

And at the end of it all, five people were murdered in their own home. That appears to have gotten lost somewhere... which is sad, but not surprising.

But Russell, you should probably take down anything that refers to that content of that Herald story until it's clear exacly what the suppression order relates to. Unless you've had advice from a media lawyer.

Thanks Scott. I'll take some advice on that, and watch what the Herald does.

Perhaps some legal scholar can help me out here, but "not guilty" doesn't mean "he didn't do it" but that he wasn't proven to have done so beyond reasonable doubt? Right?

Correct. Dictionary definition here.

I have no idea whether he 'did it' or not. Can't be bothered wading through…

C'mon, this man was found to be not guilty by a court of law.

Perhaps some legal scholar can help me out here, but "not guilty" doesn't mean "he didn't do it" but that he wasn't proven to have done so beyond reasonable doubt? Right?

For what it's worth (not…

I only expect an answer from a lawyer or from Russell.

I'll have a go. [disclaimer: I'm not a media lawyer]

It appears there is still a suppression order in place relating to certain information.

Thus, it appears the Herald has made a colossal error.

I doubt anyone is going…

Lundy, faster than a speeding bullet, a motiveless killer.
But then, he was fat. So that proves it, eh?

Can someone tell me how cell phone calls work? Lundy's timing is framed by 2 mobile phone calls (if memory serves) that both came from Lower Hutt. Is there anyway those…

Rebel Dog Know

Bold Gene Work.

The idea he'd shoot most of the family, then go on his paper run to forge an alibi, then get home in time to hide behind a curtain (he's…

we do this stuff weekly (if not daily).

We talk to…

I only expect an answer from a lawyer or from Russell.

After recent revelations, I am questioning whether our earlier conversation in this thread based on material which has now been removed is legally actionable under the suppression arrangements.

I only expect an answer from a lawyer or from Russell.

Does anyone know why the Herald story about the suppressed evidence has disappeared?

Because the suppression order is still in effect, according to Steven Price.

To hold one person as the only one able to understand puts great pressure on that person and nobody is perfect so it would always be questionable.

Maybe the answer is more than one judge.

Quite, and the jury that was made up of reasonable people, saw flaws in the…

Sunlight!
apparently it makes them blur,

An' I thought it was a swamp thung.

How do tattoos get murkier?
Sunlight!
apparently it makes them blur, spread, fade and merge – even tatty – as I heard on the interview (link below) on Nat Radio last Friday night.

So that's why those rough old navy tatts look so fuzzy. I'd thought it was because they…

How do tattoos get murkier?

Sunlight!
apparently it makes them blur, spread, fade and merge – even tatty – as I heard on the interview (link below) on Nat Radio last Friday night.

Geoff Ostling – out of his skin the Sunlight info is about halfway…

DB's tattoo was – it seems- out of character. My copy of "The…

I also heard that action has been taken against the Sunday TV show over the Bain case, to prevent them…

Sofie – examining magistrates are trained lawyers with (almost always ) a second degree – like most of our coroners i.e trained in law & medecine, or pyschology, or another science or humanities degree.

And I'm sorry, but the jury system used to be '12 of your peers'.…

Blake Monkley- I am so with your statement-

I have an aspie grand-nephew. You get to know people in the Asperger's circles. In Otago, nobody has picked DB as an aspie – nerdy,…

PS, I think I might have an average to interesting crime novel in me yet.

I've been sayin' that about the Watson case for years :)

DB gave equivocal statements to the police. His behaviour with his remaining family – they found weird. Some of his…

Re the family support for David B. He had some supporters in the wider family. But he might not have been close…

I come from a large whanau (and DB's isnt small) and I *know* they'd be for me in event of any evil thing happening.

There is mental illness in my family (depression especially -in all its forms (I am dysthymic.)) I think there is a…

My sarcasm detector doesn't work on the Lord's Day.

Possibly an Israeli manufactured security device?
Look for the 7 29 at the start of the barcode : )

oh... hang on... it's Sunday today isn't it
back to the drawing board then...

yrs
Con Sumer
__"They call me...…

Or that there were no committed friends?

I know one prepared to say in court(and did) but also
Dunedin has a lot of students (Davids age at the time) and the kids I know at uni (or left uni) aren't ever there in holidays so a number of frienships are…

I'm convinced that he is guilty for some robust pieces of physical evidence that were never rebutted (think washing machine & handprint, and Stephen's blood on DB's shorts & jersey. And some very strange…

I'm not really sure why everyone is so convinced David Bain murdered his family.

Yes Jackie I agree, but I think (and that's all it is) that when humans look at slightly awkward people or not beautiful ( Susan Boyle as an example) people, it becomes easier to assume they…

I made that comment with sarcasm.

Oh. Sorry. My sarcasm detector doesn't work on the Lord's Day.

The comparison with OJ is very interesting.

The differences are striking, however.

The Bain case screamed "Reasonable Doubt" from the beginning. Any other verdict would have been inconceivable. The defence rebutted every key piece of evidence the Crown put forward. I'm not saying Bain didn't do it (only Bain truly…

Bloody Gloves vs Bloody Socks (Defense said their respective hands/feet wouldn't fit)
Phone calls recorded
Both actors of a fashion
Both stood to inherit the estate
Both not guilty

Yeah, uncanny.
One was a big black guy, the other wasn't.
One was an American, the other wasn't.
One was a…

Bloody Gloves vs Bloody Socks (Defense said their respective hands/feet wouldn't fit)
Phone calls recorded
Both actors of a fashion
Both stood to inherit the estate
Both not guilty

(Shooters is a Christchurch bar)

A few years ago there were news reports that following a not guilty verdict members of the jury hugged the defendant. It seemed highly improper to me

Then you almost certainly don't want to be reading the SST this morning.

Pg A4 – actively soliciting for members of the jury…

I'm making sorrel soup. It takes quite a bit of attention.

check out the comments

Thank you Sacha!

(Incidentally, I know it was a hoodie, but it was bloody close to a dancing swannie-)

(The Mac handled it, bass et al – and – robbery! I'd happily pay for the listening, if only on my machine (I generally only go fromCDs/dvds I've bought.)

So,…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrIYIdQylSk

(which I think I last heard in about 1990)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGJ6bqh6nq8

(crawls off into the night)