Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: Voting in the Flag Referendum https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Brent Jackson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356392#post356392 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356392#post356392 Any major news organisation prepared to sell its integrity so easily risks undermining its reputation as a credible news source.

I not sure it's got any reputation left to undermine...

]]> Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:23:34 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356351#post356351 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356351#post356351 Just thought I’d put this here as many seem to have missed it.
Question Time 17 Feb 2016
Question 11, Denise Roche…
Denise Roche (to the Prime Minister) “Is it humane for babies and children to be detained in offshore detention centers?”
John Key “That would depend on the circumstances…

]]> Thu, 18 Feb 2016 12:27:39 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356348#post356348 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356348#post356348 Another day and more pro-change propaganda appears on Stuff. They tell us that lots of famous kiwis all want a change of flag, and nobody… not even one token person… wants to keep the current flag.

While Stuff doesn’t have the "with assistance from the flag committee" disclaimer on this…

]]> Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:43:29 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356347#post356347 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356347#post356347 strictly speaking Hawaii isn’t a ‘country’
Oh... that's true...
...it is a state of mind!
:- )

]]> Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:02:17 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356346#post356346 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356346#post356346 Thu, 18 Feb 2016 10:53:28 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356345#post356345 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356345#post356345 More vexing vexillogicality…
Oh, hang on a minute mate…
http://wangarattachronicle.com.au/2016/01/22/is-it-time-for-new-australian-flag/
Deja Vu all over again, but in Australia:
Among local politicians, Indi Greens candidate Jenny O’Connor was one of only two championing change, saying the Australian flag needed to be updated to reflect recent changes to our society.
“I don’t…

]]> Thu, 18 Feb 2016 10:29:19 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356342#post356342 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356342#post356342 the ranks about the fleg? Significant that the Nat caucus has a leaker now. ]]> Thu, 18 Feb 2016 10:03:19 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356341#post356341 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356341#post356341 Tremain ]]> Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:53:53 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356340#post356340 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356340#post356340 (Just saw this)

So, secure as a very insecure thing. Photoshop the details and you can vote as who you like. Ok, so they can consistency check the numbers – 5 digits means that 1:100000 papers would validate (assuming they don't also check the addresses).

While that might be a…

]]> Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:28:15 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356310#post356310 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356310#post356310 Practice saying it now...
"G'nite Johnboy"
can't wait...

]]> Wed, 17 Feb 2016 17:47:45 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356297#post356297 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=356297#post356297 The Herald’s not the only media group extracting taxpayer money to promote Key’s choice of flag. Now Stuff has got in on the act as well with a story pretending that kiwis are finally engaging with the deeply flawed process. The caption on the video provides the first clue.

We’ve…

]]> Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:21:07 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352831#post352831 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352831#post352831 Overseas voters have the option of uploading a scan of their response form to the elections.org.nz site. I note that, contrary to the listed browser requirements, the upload does not work under older versions of Safari such as 5.0.6 (still the most recent version for MacOS 10.5).

The site recommends…

]]> Wed, 02 Dec 2015 01:11:24 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352828#post352828 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352828#post352828 Tue, 01 Dec 2015 23:11:39 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352609#post352609 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352609#post352609 Do you have to vote in the first referendum to vote in the second?

You do not.

You can vote in either, neither or both referendums.

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 23:58:39 +1300 John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352593#post352593 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352593#post352593 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:37:17 +1300 Anon Emous https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352592#post352592 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352592#post352592 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:43:46 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352575#post352575 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352575#post352575 We know at least with THIS referendum that there is a conscious spoiling of the paper.

This is sort-of what I’m getting, at though. We know that some people are spoiling voting papers in protest. But that’s only one possible reason for a spoiled voting paper. In the end, it…

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:28:50 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352572#post352572 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352572#post352572 THIS referendum that there is a conscious spoiling of the paper. Whether it's Annette Kings interpretation of that or the PM's we know some of the public are going to actively spoil their paper as a protest. Those who don't want to protest can vote… ]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:45:53 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352562#post352562 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352562#post352562 I don’t agree with Graeme though, invalid papers WILL be seen as a protest and the protest will be noted.

I think a problem, though, remains that it'll only be seen as a protest by people who choose to see it as a protest. Annette King will be out there…

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:23:03 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352558#post352558 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352558#post352558 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:28:16 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352557#post352557 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352557#post352557 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:25:12 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352556#post352556 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352556#post352556 The ‘cheesey’ things they purport to be ‘ferns’ look more like combs or tombstones/surfboards…

Intermission…


Righto, as you were ;)

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:19:31 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352553#post352553 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352553#post352553 Winston weighs in.
I liked:
...more Prime Minstrel than Prime Minister.

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:08:27 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352552#post352552 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352552#post352552 the Mandelbrot brotherhood...
Also, ferns are compound leaves that have alternate leaflets
I'm with you Bart!
The 'cheesey' things they purport to be 'ferns' look more like combs or tombstones/surfboards...

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:04:35 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352551#post352551 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352551#post352551 That’s my problem, five logos.

Winston weighs in.

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:58:57 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352550#post352550 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352550#post352550 perturbed by the resemblance between the fern designs to the logos

That's my problem, five logos.

We didn't get flags that embody New Zealand, we got logos designed by marketing wonks who think they will sell product.

Also, ferns are compound leaves that have alternate leaflets (science nerd).

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:49:19 +1300 Carol Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352549#post352549 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352549#post352549 I wrote “None of these flags” and also wrote under the Red Peaks abortion that “this is a stolen design”.

Whom do you think it is stolen from?

Are you also perturbed by the resemblance between the fern designs to the logos of the NZRU, Tourism NZ, Qualmark etc?

I'm…

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:34:31 +1300 victor brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352542#post352542 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352542#post352542 ahhh, i see, Johnkey wants a fern.
thanks for the explanation.

]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2015 09:47:02 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352534#post352534 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352534#post352534 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:50:22 +1300 victor brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352533#post352533 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352533#post352533 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:36:23 +1300 victor brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352532#post352532 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352532#post352532 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:32:58 +1300 David Sherry https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352523#post352523 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352523#post352523 Herewith the rub. The flag MEANS something to a lot of us. Yet they are asking those who couldn't give a stuff to choose a flag based on their/yeh/nah/I'm just not bothered either way/what colour undies shall I wear today to me sort of thing.
That is the real shame…

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 23:41:01 +1300 David Sherry https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352522#post352522 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352522#post352522 I am quite happy to change my name to Dick if it helps show this that awful process is seen for the farce it is. I wrote "None of these flags" and also wrote under the Red Peaks abortion that "this is a stolen design".

I don't agree with Graeme…

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 23:34:14 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352521#post352521 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352521#post352521 parachuted in to head
the party of the effluent
squatting over us,
his ethics and his bowels relaxed.


(Why should Colin Craig have a monopoly on shit poetry?)

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 23:16:08 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352496#post352496 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352496#post352496 so why are we not just voting once for our one favourite flag? incase two flags get the exact same number of votes??

Because.... JohnKey

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 18:17:18 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352495#post352495 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352495#post352495 Wed, 25 Nov 2015 18:09:52 +1300 victor brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352492#post352492 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352492#post352492 Wed, 25 Nov 2015 17:57:17 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352484#post352484 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352484#post352484 “If anything’s repeated often enough"… it becomes normal usage, and possibly also perceived (if not actual) truth.

Unintended consequence: It’s fascinating the way “relaxed” is now understood as “slack” in an ever-increasing range of contexts through its repetition by certain especially relaxed politicians.

(Why do we have relaxed oversight, but…

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 17:27:09 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352470#post352470 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352470#post352470 Wed, 25 Nov 2015 16:22:05 +1300 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352442#post352442 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352442#post352442 I like that the NZ public is being asked a hypothetical question this time around.

If the flag was to be changed – A kind of – what would your preferences be vote scenario.

I think that gets people to consider the alternatives and give them some kind of ranking…

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:33:24 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352429#post352429 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352429#post352429 Sadly it seems that no matter how you vote you end up getting politicians.

Yes, and I’ve seen similar reasoning over and over. (They’re all useless, and so on.)

I think what gets me, though, is the way in which many people seem to lower their expectations and become accepting…

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 12:41:37 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352405#post352405 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352405#post352405 Richie McCaw needs a new job!
He'll be there, at the breakdown of society
going for it – a Crusader on a mission...

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 10:28:32 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352398#post352398 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352398#post352398 whatcha think?

Well, could work, Carter ( and Key for that matter) being reptilian shape shifters. Would help if Carter (jerkoff) sorts out his hard of hearing any incident that requires his friggin’ ears :)
The Pan (t)opticon still needs someone in the middle though. Hey, Richie McCaw needs…

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 10:04:59 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352383#post352383 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352383#post352383 watchmen...
the Panopticon beckons...
Schrodinger's surveillance...
the watched watch themselves...
whatcha think?

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 08:52:25 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352379#post352379 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352379#post352379 Otherwise they should all shut up while someone else is speaking

It's very hard to keep quiet when this Government peddles bullshit, when the Speaker allows bullshit, when the PM is one big turd. The Opposition has to shout back in the hope that one journalist may run with the…

]]> Wed, 25 Nov 2015 08:21:11 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352343#post352343 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352343#post352343 Christmas tree or Yacht sail?

Some fwit paid $20,000 for that?

That's what they mean when they say "more money than sense."

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 17:33:16 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352342#post352342 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352342#post352342 Jonathan King's Flag comic covers at Reddit. ]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 17:32:35 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352341#post352341 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352341#post352341 Silver Fern Farms have been partly sold off to overseas interests – will a similarly flagged country have the same thing done do it?

Yes.....

Maybe it already happened?

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 17:31:24 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352340#post352340 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352340#post352340 ’maori tattoo’ pinterest page ]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 17:29:17 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352339#post352339 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352339#post352339 Christmas tree or Yacht sail?
I have found Key’s ‘Genesis moment’ back in 2010:
http://www.guide2.co.nz/politics/news/key-silver-fern-drawing-attracts-nearly-20k-in-bids/11/14162
Mr Key draw the silver fern on TVNZ’s Breakfast programme at presenter Pippa Wetzell’s request.
The prime minister said, in response to the New Zealand Herald’s newspaper campaign, that **changing the New Zealand flag was…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 17:23:24 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352335#post352335 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352335#post352335 I did find this ‘fern representation’ (er, feather!) from overseas (1954!) on John Ansell’s site…
…oh hang on that’s rugby too.

I’ll keep looking…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:50:16 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352334#post352334 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352334#post352334 pressing issues...
That’s an eejits paper. Stick to Waterford Whispers.
Nice, puts The Civilian to shame – what we need is John Key's favourite paper The Ferndale Flyer... fractious news about fictitious places...

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:45:19 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352331#post352331 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352331#post352331 Parley mint... a breath of fresh air
I certainly couldn’t tolerate the crap that goes on at question time.
Me too – they are appalling – if they were school kids they'd all be on detention.

I think I heard Goff on the radio referring to it as the 'Theatre…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:21:03 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352329#post352329 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352329#post352329 Waterford Whispers. ]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:14:07 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352328#post352328 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352328#post352328 Surely the best way to replace the government is to provide a decent alternative for people to vote for

Sadly it seems that no matter how you vote you end up getting politicians.

To be be less trite – there is at present in NZ far too few people in…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:13:03 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352327#post352327 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352327#post352327 Why, it’s a (Cyathea) dealb(e)ata…
Influencing the vote much?
But The Irish Examiner have used a nice realistic looking fern – I don’t see how Key can compare that to the crappy clip-art travesties he is trying to foist on us…
There is no gravitas or power to them at…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:10:57 +1300 Astro Puss https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352325#post352325 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352325#post352325 Indeed – AND no accident that Dear Leader is pushing it in today's media (24/11/15) on the back of the Irish Examiner's observance of the passing of Jonah Lomu. He might not be paying for advertising but by God he gets the mileage purely because of who he is.

Influencing…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:57:06 +1300 tussock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352321#post352321 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352321#post352321 yet still claim to vote and support National. Why?

People are tribal, and they vote for the people who remind them of themselves and seem to be living the life they want. The majority of people want Green/Mana policies, and they vote for the National Party to implement them because…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:27:49 +1300 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352314#post352314 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352314#post352314 I genuinely believe he has no idea what is moral or not

Who needs a moral compass when you've got Curia?

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:14:12 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352312#post352312 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352312#post352312 the best way to replace the government is to provide a decent alternativeVery true. But for most of us here, it’s a lot easier to slag off Key (and to note that his personal popularity derives at least in part from using every advertising trick in the book) than it… ]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:56:39 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352310#post352310 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352310#post352310 Apologies if I came across as overly harsh in my earlier comment.

What you’re saying there is,
the associative logic of advertising doesn’t work,
because we’re all too smart for it.

Not at all. I think the there’s plenty of evidence that advertising manipulates how people think, and I’m not…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:51:44 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352307#post352307 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352307#post352307 The smoking gun perhaps?
Probably knock-off or imitation NZ apples...

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:25:32 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352306#post352306 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352306#post352306 Talking of fishy…
I noticed in today’s “paper” that Mr Little has labeled a certain Prime Minister “Tasteless”. This follows the very same Prime Minister that, not so long ago, was called “Gutless” by a prominent opposition MP.
This reminded me of the Bassa Fish, which we had foisted upon…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:20:13 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352305#post352305 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352305#post352305 dunno what the barcodes expand to…

Well, cough, on mine the QrCode is the same as the number under it.
The Barcode over the address gives the same number.
The barcode on the right hand margin gives a similar number to the number below it apart from 5 extra digits…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:05:05 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352304#post352304 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352304#post352304 Firstly to izogi.

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt that they’re not stupid…
See, still waiting for ….
Just never happens with Key Inc. Smoke and Mirrors


What you’re saying there is,
the associative logic of advertising doesn’t work,
because we’re all too smart for it.…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 12:20:21 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352303#post352303 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352303#post352303 What you’re saying there is,
the associative logic of advertising doesn’t work,
because we’re all too smart for it. … Yeah, right.

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 12:06:30 +1300 Howard Edwards https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352301#post352301 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352301#post352301 The smoking gun perhaps?

Alternate flag design used in Shanghai

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:45:43 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352292#post352292 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352292#post352292 No platform for Our Leader. None of this bathing in the reflected glory. None of this seeing him wrapped in the cloak of others’ achievements. Maybe folk would see him for what he is.

Tempting as it sometimes seems, I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt that…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:14:36 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352288#post352288 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352288#post352288 yeah nah – this is the dude who used rape as a political ploy two weeks ago

At the local TPPA march, we took a NZ Flag...(never having flown a flag in our lives!) and a reversible placard.

TPPA It's Not OK.... on one side.

Say Sorry Key.... on the…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:44:44 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352286#post352286 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352286#post352286 I haven't seen the Paul Henry clip, but if I read that Stuff story correctly ...

Key wasn't making an off-the-cuff remark. He wasn't quoted out of context. He had brought the image with him . To make a point.

And nobody said "WTF, Prime Minister? Seriously?"

Or if they…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:39:05 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352285#post352285 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352285#post352285 Imagine a New Zealand without Rugby. (Yeah, I know, this is pissing on the high altar of all we hold holy....but imagine.)

No platform for Our Leader. None of this bathing in the reflected glory. None of this seeing him wrapped in the cloak of others' achievements.

Maybe folk would…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:39:04 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352283#post352283 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352283#post352283 an all time low

yeah nah – this is the dude who used rape as a political ploy two weeks ago

And last year excused persistent sexual harassment as horseplay

And excused the actions of the roastbusters

I genuinely believe he has no idea what is moral or not, for…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:19:10 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352281#post352281 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352281#post352281 Our Leader has sunk to an all time low
ain't he though!
"Here's the silver fern, front page, with one frond coming off like a tear, with Jonah Lomu and his years," Key said.
"Amazingly powerful. That's New Zealand. Where was our flag? Nowhere."
The silver fern was known around…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 08:53:30 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352280#post352280 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352280#post352280 Well, bugger me dead...Our Leader has sunk to an all time low.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/74337045/Jonah-Lomu-tribute-shows-need-for-a-new-flag-PM-says

I had this 'orrible feeling he might exploit Lomu's death..but FFS Key...

...what is it like at the bottom of that barrel?

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 08:35:40 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352279#post352279 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352279#post352279 in limbo…
Just got back from delivering a local newsletter round Richmond – only streets thereof at that – and saw at least 10 Referendum envelopes in overstuffed and uncleared letterboxes – some outside houses obviously untenanted.
Multiply that out by the many parts of Chchch that that will be…

]]> Tue, 24 Nov 2015 08:26:04 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352246#post352246 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352246#post352246 How many digits?
21

7964908 04728 0001 04728
&
7964908 04729 0001 04729

whereas the numbers under the QR code are
05159894780
&
05159949510

dunno what the barcodes expand to...

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:40:13 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352240#post352240 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352240#post352240 I’m a little torn. I strongly believe everyone should vote as a general rule. It is one of the few times we actually get to exercise our personal view in this democracy. Yet I personally hate all the designs proposed (yes even red peak).

I’m also torn. But to me…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:00:31 +1300 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352239#post352239 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352239#post352239 You’re supporting democracy by not voting? Interesting tactic.

I’m never said i was supporting democracy, this isn’t an election. If it was, I'd say any one of the choices would make a better leader than John Key. Maybe we should tie him to the top of a fIagpole to see…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:58:45 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352237#post352237 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352237#post352237 Is it actually fair for me to rank my least hated or should I just not bother?

Entirely fair to rank your least hated to give the best chance ensuring your most-hated is not selected.

Pretty much the way I operate at a beer tasting then – sadly that usually…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:54:19 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352231#post352231 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352231#post352231 one sequentially after the other

How many digits? Leading zeros? (I haven't had my ballot papers yet so can't look)

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:39:54 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352230#post352230 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352230#post352230 like this. ]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:34:31 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352227#post352227 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352227#post352227 Standard voting procedures?
Comparing two voting forms: the bar code and unique number (20+ numbers) down the side are both different (one sequentially after the other) as are the two QR codes. My eyes aren't good enough to see if the barcodes above the address are different – but I…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:10:53 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352223#post352223 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352223#post352223 Is it actually fair for me to rank my least hated or should I just not bother?

Entirely fair to rank your least hated to give the best chance ensuring your most-hated is not selected.

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:00:25 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352214#post352214 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352214#post352214 It will be interesting to see how they report the outcomes of the vote. It’s quite easy to report an FPP or MMP vote so that people can immediately see the result. People might not be too happy if it’s not intuitively clear from the results posted for STV. If… ]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:46:16 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352212#post352212 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352212#post352212 It is not meant to bother those counting but John Key and if enough invalidate their vote it wil embarrass him in Parliament.

I think you've underestimated just how little embarrassment John Key has in parliament.

Mine went straight into the bin; Spoiling your ballot is just a good. Both…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:44:07 +1300 mpledger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352209#post352209 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352209#post352209 When there were three fern flags and one non-fern flag there were low probability cases where the voting method could give some odd results about what flag wins – although there was some disagreement about that.
http://www.statschat.org.nz/2015/09/10/do-preferential-voting-and-similar-flags-interact-badly/

Now that there are two non-fern flags against three fern flags it’s not…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:31:09 +1300 mpledger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352206#post352206 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352206#post352206
At the top under your name and address you will see a bar code, this generates an eleven digit number. If you look at the tear off voting form you will see a qCode, this generates the exact same number as the barcode under your address.
Fishy or what?.

If…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:16:27 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352201#post352201 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352201#post352201 Yes, it’s fairly standard practice for most elections http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0066/latest/DLM6405395.html.

The ballot papers are always traceable in all/most elections and secrecy relies on them being locked away and destroyed after six months, unless there has been some sort of irregularity that results in a court order to unseal them (like a…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:42:39 +1300 Oliver Thompson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352195#post352195 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352195#post352195 The NZ Flag….97 bucks!
Flags have a pretty hard life if actually flown – the only current NZ flag in my house is really too ragged to fly, as it's had a long trip around the pacific. So spending some bucks for decent fabric and finishing is important for some…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:25:23 +1300 Oliver Thompson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352194#post352194 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352194#post352194 Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:22:21 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352193#post352193 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352193#post352193 this generates the exact same number as the barcode under your address.

So, my vote is not anonymous? Well, in the bin it goes.

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:17:29 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352191#post352191 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352191#post352191 I was just playing with a qCode and barcode reader that I had just downloaded and was looking for a handy barcode or qCode. I found both on the voting form.
At the top under your name and address you will see a bar code, this generates an eleven digit…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:59:29 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352190#post352190 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352190#post352190 Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:50:01 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352188#post352188 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352188#post352188 I'm a little torn. I strongly believe everyone should vote as a general rule. It is one of the few times we actually get to exercise our personal view in this democracy.

Yet I personally hate all the designs proposed (yes even red peak).

Setting aside my reasons for hating…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:29:22 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352185#post352185 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352185#post352185 – and so is anyone else.

Ouch!

The NZ Flag....97 bucks!

Seriously....David's Emporium in Hammytown...$10

(Or was when I bought one a month ago for the TPP march...they might have gone up by now)

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:29:33 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352184#post352184 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352184#post352184 Some people have been puzzled by the fact that the Lockwood flags and Red Peak are being sold by their creators.

All entrants agreed to sign over the copyright in their designs to the Crown if they were selected for the short list.

This makes the shortlist finalists [[http://www.changetheflag.nz/mediareleasecopyright|subject to…

]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:18:16 +1300 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352182#post352182 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352182#post352182 Mon, 23 Nov 2015 08:26:35 +1300 Soon Lee https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352181#post352181 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352181#post352181 this youtube clip which shows a worked example of "Alternative Vote" a.k.a. "Preferential Voting" a.k.a. "Instant-runoff voting" a.k.a. the flag referendum voting system. ]]> Mon, 23 Nov 2015 08:09:51 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352174#post352174 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352174#post352174 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 23:30:56 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352172#post352172 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352172#post352172 As much as red peak being added makes the whole process a farce.

I'm sure opinions vary but personally I see it more as a symptom of a farce that already existed. Maybe even a laughably hopeless attempt to mitigate the potential damage of what was already a terrible farce.

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 23:24:55 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352171#post352171 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352171#post352171 If you regard the two silver fern with stars (weetbix) as essentially the same flag, surely you should only rank one of them. Otherwise you give a silver fern double vote.

This is wrong. If you like the Kyle Lockwood fern flag, rank them both.

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 21:53:54 +1300 Mick Buckley https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352170#post352170 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352170#post352170 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 21:51:06 +1300 Steve Todd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352169#post352169 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352169#post352169 @mpledger

"You only need rank 4 flags – the 5th rank never comes into play."

Correct. That is because when the most successful losing (in this case) option is excluded, the votes given for that option will not transferred to the next preferences shown on them, because there is no…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 21:03:19 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352167#post352167 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352167#post352167 ditto on order.

and now I've read phil's post underneath to see why
doh!

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 20:55:21 +1300 Jonathan King https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352166#post352166 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352166#post352166 So if your conspiracy theory is right then why wasn’t that design one of the final four? Did “they” forget to manipulate the flag panel?

Silver ferns feature heavily, and Key's made it clear that his preferred design would feature one.

They didn't have control over who won the world…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:51:06 +1300 Chuck Bird https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352164#post352164 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352164#post352164 Thus, my words “A basic protest won’t bother them”.

It is not meant to bother those counting but John Key and if enough invalidate their vote it wil embarrass him in Parliament.

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:26:30 +1300 Phil Lyth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352163#post352163 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352163#post352163 By “randomised” I meant “are they different on every ballot?”

No. (This came up on Twitter y'day) What's being used is described as "pseudo-random" in the Local Electoral Regulations for Council elections.

The Electoral Commission drew lots – in front of a Judge – to determine a random order, and…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:05:49 +1300 mpledger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352162#post352162 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352162#post352162
But is it a good idea to rank everyone?

Yes.

You only need rank 4 flags – the 5th rank never comes into play.

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 18:38:28 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352161#post352161 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352161#post352161 I cannot see why those counting the votes could care less if KOF is on the ballot.

Thus, my words "A basic protest won’t bother them".

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:56:27 +1300 mpledger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352160#post352160 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352160#post352160 The order on my voting form is
Left most) blue/black silver fern
left) red peak
middle) apple eating elephant (aka hypnoflag)
right) black and white fern
right most) blue/red silver fern

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:56:23 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352158#post352158 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352158#post352158 Presumably the vote counters are paid by the hour or are on a salary, so if the votes take longer to count because many are spoiled, they'll just get overtime or the process will take longer – they won't lose out.

(Do they use a scanning machine that counts correctly…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:03:28 +1300 Chuck Bird https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352157#post352157 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352157#post352157 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:54:12 +1300 chris https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352156#post352156 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352156#post352156 It’s probably not without tactical consideration, though. If she’d not previously told people to spoil their ballot papers, it’d be harder to later say “See! All those people agree with the exact reasoning I expressed for spoiling their ballot papers!”

The thing I’m unclear of is will there be any…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:49:57 +1300 SteveH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352155#post352155 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352155#post352155 Does it seem tin-foil-hat-ish to point out how cynical and manipulative it was for the pro-Silver Fern govt to schedule the referendum for just three weeks after the (All Blacks favourited to win) Rugby World Cup final?

It does seem quite tin-foil-hat-ish. For one thing we've been favourite at every…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:33:28 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352154#post352154 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352154#post352154 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:20:15 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352153#post352153 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352153#post352153 getting all serious warning about spoilt papers being shared seems a tad late to me and as the Edge points out ,do it… ]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:18:20 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352152#post352152 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352152#post352152 It seems suspicious to me that Key’s prefered flag comes up first on the ballot …. (or are they randomised?) I guess the fix is in

It was randomised.

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:14:30 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352151#post352151 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352151#post352151 One thing that I thought was a good idea was that the flag referendum law explicity says that flying a flag is not an election advertisment

From a purely practical point of view during the second ballot requiring people to take down all the existing flags would have been a…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:11:50 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352150#post352150 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352150#post352150 we also received 4 ballots, 2 for the kids who are overseas, and no time to forward the envelopes to them .... I presume we can't vote on their behalf under their instruction.

It seems suspicious to me that Key's prefered flag comes up first on the ballot .... (or…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:02:17 +1300 Jonathan King https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352148#post352148 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352148#post352148 Does it seem tin-foil-hat-ish to point out how cynical and manipulative it was for the pro-Silver Fern govt to schedule the referendum for just three weeks after the (All Blacks favourited to win) Rugby World Cup final?

It was no accident, that's for sure.

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 14:48:32 +1300 Phil Lyth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352147#post352147 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352147#post352147 here. ]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 14:43:26 +1300 kw https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352146#post352146 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352146#post352146 here, it will get to both, Why we should not change the flag and The pros and cons of spoiling your vote. They're thoughful and essentially polite – the… ]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 14:27:00 +1300 Gareth Ward https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352141#post352141 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352141#post352141 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 11:38:36 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352139#post352139 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352139#post352139 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 11:28:27 +1300 Gareth Ward https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352138#post352138 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352138#post352138 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 10:53:56 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352137#post352137 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352137#post352137 and this....http://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/the-flag-debate

That's an excellent visualisation which is most revealing in exposing how much manipulation is going on behind the scenes. Nice work Caleb Tutty.

I guess what surprises me most is that it's the Herald exposing this fraud. Ever since they accepted public money to run positive spin for…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 10:42:59 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352132#post352132 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352132#post352132 what’s the law regarding advertising?

No limit on spending on "referendum advertisements" – you just have to put your name and address on it. TV advertising also would be allowed, as no political parties or candidates are involved.

However, parties and MPs can't use their parliamentary funding to pay for…

]]> Sun, 22 Nov 2015 07:40:29 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352129#post352129 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352129#post352129 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 00:17:45 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352123#post352123 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352123#post352123 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11544460

You guys read this, right?

and this....http://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/the-flag-debate

I don't know how They will do it....but do it They will.

National/Key keep topping the polls, despite pretty much everyone apart from Henry/Hosking wishing them gone.

This is not rational!

I'm off to polish my hat...

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 20:22:04 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352119#post352119 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352119#post352119 Que? Weetabix packaging is all yellow and light blue...
Weet-bix surely – the seventh day adventists and all that..

Seven-day adventurers, as the mum of one of my childhood friends called them. Being deaf and functionally illiterate, she had some interesting takes on a number of things.

Weet-Bix predates Weetabix.…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 18:05:16 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352118#post352118 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352118#post352118 cereal shorthand...
Weetabix is a good choice for a new flag
Que? Weetabix packaging is all yellow and light blue...
Weet-bix surely – the seventh day adventists and all that..
any way with all those fronds who needs extra fibre?

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 16:58:03 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352114#post352114 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352114#post352114 If I put a Weetabix in the envelope and send it back then, as well as feeding the hard working voters, is this a valid vote for the Weetabix flag, or would it be spoiled, even if the cereal isn't.

* Weetabix is a good choice for a new flag,…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:55:03 +1300 Robyn Gallagher https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352113#post352113 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352113#post352113 There are cynical bastards in our household who reckon the outcome is pre-determined.

It would be extremely difficult to actually do this, given that throughout the whole referendum process there are actual real people involved.

Unless the theory extends to some sort of 9/11-scale conspiracy where hundreds of people are…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:21:01 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352111#post352111 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352111#post352111 If they want us to vote, they should put some decent food on the menu. Like pizzas and stuff.

Nobody's going to vote for broccoli.

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:10:32 +1300 chris https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352110#post352110 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352110#post352110 couldn’t be bothered/don’t care

In the context of this first referendum:

Prime Minister John Key has made his big pitch for why he thinks the country needs a new flag.

it’s a rejection of this need.

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:00:38 +1300 George Darroch https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352109#post352109 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352109#post352109 Those Who Rule Us probably have the new flag at the mass manufacturing stage already.

This exercise is pantomime.

I’ve been surprised at the level of antagonism towards this process. It’s not rational; as if this exercise is a disruption of Our Zealand. That the stasis we’re in is comfortable…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 14:35:29 +1300 weka https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352107#post352107 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352107#post352107 Not voting can be interpreted in many ways, the least of which is a protest vote. NZ typically has a low turnout for referenda, so not voting is more likely to be seen as couldn't be bothered/don't care.

Spoling the vote is more likley to be seen as a protest.…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 14:19:36 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352106#post352106 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352106#post352106 Sat, 21 Nov 2015 13:47:28 +1300 Soon Lee https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352105#post352105 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352105#post352105 a worked example of Preferential Voting. ]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 13:04:22 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352104#post352104 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352104#post352104 What if I put Roman numerals or Khmer (១, ២, ៣, ៤, ៥)?

I think the usual response is: working people are processing these things, so don't be a dick.

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:27:00 +1300 Jackson James Wood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352101#post352101 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352101#post352101 Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:24:51 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352099#post352099 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352099#post352099 I was mildly annoyed to see Annette King (I think) on the news the other night advocating that if you wanted to keep our existing flag, you should vote 1 (or 0) across all the flags in this referendum.

It's probably not without tactical consideration, though. If she'd not previously…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:35 +1300 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352097#post352097 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352097#post352097 Really? What if the informals outnumbered the first choice? Or if you don’t bother to vote at all – could a low, low turnout be construed as a protest. I really hate this whole process and how we have arrived at this point.

Really. Really really. A vote is not…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:57:14 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352095#post352095 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352095#post352095 Dante's fernery...
I really hate this whole process and how we have arrived at this point.
I think the Key Party line advice is 'lie back, but don't think of England'

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:52:49 +1300 Marion Ogier https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352093#post352093 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352093#post352093 Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:44:11 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352088#post352088 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352088#post352088 could you please extend this with an appraisal of what a spoiled paper will do; and/or how best to register dissatisfaction the the process itself?

A spoiled paper will be counted as an informal vote. The number of informal votes will be recorded, but not the reasons for that (the…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:03:15 +1300 Alex Stone https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352087#post352087 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352087#post352087 Sat, 21 Nov 2015 09:47:17 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352084#post352084 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352084#post352084 If you don’t rank any flag at all with a “1”. Or if you rank more than one flag with a “1”. Or if you vote using ticks, like in a first past the post election.

If you put a single tick next to just one of the options and…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:46:44 +1300 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352083#post352083 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352083#post352083 There are cynical bastards in our household who reckon the outcome is pre-determined.

Those Who Rule Us probably have the new flag at the mass manufacturing stage already.

This exercise is pantomime.

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:44:26 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352082#post352082 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352082#post352082 Well, we received four sets of ballot papers in the mailbox today: One for me, one for my wife, and two for the couple who shifted out of this house more than a year ago and have never bothered to update their address for anyone who sends them mail

Imagine…

]]> Sat, 21 Nov 2015 06:17:11 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352080#post352080 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352080#post352080 anyone who sends them mail. We’ve… ]]> Fri, 20 Nov 2015 22:18:56 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352078#post352078 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352078#post352078 Fri, 20 Nov 2015 21:07:24 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352077#post352077 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-voting-in-the-flag-referendum/?p=352077#post352077 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Fri, 20 Nov 2015 21:07:24 +1300