Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: The Northland by-election; or The so-called Tizard Effect

Alfie

Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:48:42 +1200

Mike Sabin has a new job as chief executive of a Chinese-owned, 1000-hectare luxury resort in Karikari. Just saying.

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 17:20:11 +1300

HEADS-UP: I’ve just published a blog post by Philip Lyth that raises the possibility that Peters will decline to bring in a new MP.

I raised that possibility!

:-)

Everyone assumes a by-election-winning list MP would resign to allow their party an extra MP, but they could decide not to...

Joe Wylie

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:20:46 +1300

…and I now see that KidsCan was the charity all this violence took place for

A worthy cause.

Russell Brown

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:00:52 +1300

HEADS-UP: I've just published a blog post by Philip Lyth that raises the possibility that Peters will decline to bring in a new MP.

Very interesting.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:52:06 +1300

on the mat…
Stuff giving yet another image of the Oily, I can only infer that my day has started out well.
According to another report on the fight in the Sunday Star Times Slater was also served with bankruptcy proceedings papers just prior to the fight!
I now also…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:33:20 +1300

perhaps 'troll bridges' could be the go?

Come to think of it Winston does, kinda, resemble a big billy goat gruff, Osborne looks like he's had his fill of foldy roll under the bridge and the grass on this side is definitely greener.
Today I am a happier man.
;-)

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:58:18 +1300

I guess Winston didn't win every booth by this interactive in Harold but bloody good thrashing anyhow.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:44:22 +1300

the Winston, chur chur chill factor...
For all those that say Winston can’t actually do anything...
Well if he can stop the TPPA going through that would save the country billions in the long run and ensure more money stayed in the country – that's gotta be useful...

so at…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:36:32 +1300

Several points on the election.
First, of course,we should have a good look at the election spending of National. I can't see how they could put that number of feet on the ground, let alone the limos. The number of hoardings and signs should have broken the budget on their…

BenWilson

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:47:10 +1300

That he got punched out in less than one round by a professional athlete wasn't that surprising. But that he lost 17kg is. He should have gone in The Biggest Loser with those sort of numbers.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:22:30 +1300

Not a knockout punch but a bit more than a bloody nose eh!

I would say after glancing the Harold and saw
Ex Cricketer and blogger bloodbath?
then Stuff giving yet another image of the Oily, I can only infer that my day has started out well.
Gosh, timing is…

BenWilson

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:19:38 +1300

Not a knockout punch but a bit more than a bloody nose eh!

It was left to Jessie Ryder to deliver the weekend's actual knockout punch.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 10:48:54 +1300

Captain sensible
Elfish has left the building...
Looks like The Dunne-witch Horror!
aka Satan's Little Helper...

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 09:59:50 +1300

This is what we’re talking about

Aha!
Adult rated inedible foodstuffs...
is there a related 'bauble-blower'?
:- )

andin

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 09:03:07 +1300

From blimmin' istuff
Key was nowhere to be seen in Kerikeri on Saturday night, preferring to head to Melbourne for Sunday's World Cup cricket final.

"run John run
cause they got a gun
and they aiming it at your head"

Thanks to Lieber & Stoller and The Coasters

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 06:53:25 +1300

Winter is coming John
A Game of Over Throwns!
(conflating the weekend's two big stories...)

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 06:50:26 +1300

Gettysburg-on-the-Hokianga
A new St Petersburg?

Kumara Republic

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 00:01:01 +1300

Yes, there is a new King In The North. Now, can he survive a season?

Gettysburg-on-the-Hokianga, much?

Paul Campbell

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 23:16:55 +1300

Yes, there is a new King In The North. Now, can he survive a season?

Winter is coming John

linger

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 22:48:04 +1300

Pity, I rather liked the idea of associating Happy Meals with adult toys.
But then, Maccas in Japan have been having enough problems already with adulterated foodstuffs.

linger

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 22:34:04 +1300

would an adult toyswas this as part of a splinter group? *winces*

81stcolumn

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 21:18:09 +1300

Not a knockout punch but a bit more than a bloody nose eh!

Russell Brown

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 21:11:39 +1300

A 13,000-vote swing in six months. Sure, tactical voting, but my goodness.

andin

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 21:09:07 +1300

this by-election is actually news …

The proles seem to be a bit distracted at the mo' perhaps they wont notice too much.
Apologies to Mr Orwell...

Joe Wylie

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 21:09:02 +1300

Yes, there is a new King In The North. Now, can he survive a season?

Of course he can, he's like one of those Happy Meals that never decay. Eventually of course some child will prod it, causing it to crumble to nutrient-free dust, but anyone hoping for that to…

simon g

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 20:55:36 +1300

Memo to NZ Herald: We love the cricket, but this by-election is actually news ...

BenWilson

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 20:52:02 +1300

Yes, there is a new King In The North. Now, can he survive a season?

A C Young

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 20:36:32 +1300

Looks like you have your change =)

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:17:02 +1300

So Northland ,did ya get out and vote? I advanced voted at the only place in a 50 mile radius. I hope for change.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 14:17:27 +1300

He’s been pretty consistently taking this line re Key and his truthiness

And about time. Nothing has changed with this corporate money trading gangster. It seems that only now has the blinkers come off so really Hooton's slow off the mark and he's finally being joined by other journalists who,…

Paul Williams

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 12:37:36 +1300

Good piece by Matthew Hooton on that very point.

He's been pretty consistently taking this line re Key and his truthiness.

Alfie

Sat, 28 Mar 2015 10:48:30 +1300

That's an excellent piece from Hooton.

In related news, Winston states that he'll vote against TPPA.
Peters says his party will stop the National government from passing the TPPA agreement.

"Trust me I know what we're going to do here. We'll stop them passing this law.

"It's about foreign corporates…

BenWilson

Fri, 27 Mar 2015 11:01:42 +1300

Good piece by Matthew Hooton on that very point.

Paul Campbell

Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:02:45 +1300

Today's Tremain

Steve Barnes

Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:31:59 +1300

Just a thought but is the 60 odd million dollars that National has released to bribe the people of Northland to be counted as an election expense?
If so then surely that exceeds the spending limit.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:53:24 +1300

Meanwhile our friends the French have have implanted artificial (and false) memories in sleeping mice – see how they run!
To test this theory, Professor Benchenane's group watched place neurons replay in sleeping mice. When a specific neuron, linked to a specific point in space, fired, the team would use…

Angela Hart

Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:46:58 +1300

The timing is stunning. The media focus has shifted. An extremely effective strategic spin machine is doing its job superbly.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 11 Mar 2015 08:03:40 +1300

Playing the 'f'ear' way...
Without wishing to sound alarmist, but this Infant formula 'eco-terrorism' threat is awfully useful to Mr Key and his 'spread-the-fear' publicity drive so close to this Northland 'buy' election – I don't suppose they brought forward the release of information about it for reasons other than…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 10 Mar 2015 14:17:36 +1300

Pontoon anyone?
Bridges For Everyone
aka throwing a 'spanner' (or two) in the works?

Bruce Ward

Tue, 10 Mar 2015 14:08:00 +1300

Bridges For Everyone

You mean Simon has a few bridges for sale?

linger

Tue, 10 Mar 2015 14:07:44 +1300

Despite their imagery for the last election demonstrating
that National don't need no steenking bridges?

James Francis

Tue, 10 Mar 2015 13:57:45 +1300

It's not a bribe. This is the long game. It's wee Simon positioning himself for a tilt at the leadership and the 2017 election. It's establishing a platform that can rolled out across the country. You can see the T shirts, you can see the billboards, you can see the…

andin

Mon, 09 Mar 2015 13:21:12 +1300

Ever wonder why the PM acts like a 5 year old? Perhaps it’s because there are 5 year olds in the press gallery.
Funny how those who think they're all grown up, arent!

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 09 Mar 2015 12:30:57 +1300

Fancy a few new bridges in your area? Elect a crim as an MP, and after their downfall, the government will hand out the bribes at the resulting by-election.

linger

Sun, 08 Mar 2015 19:25:47 +1300

or routed?
Gower taking a salary as a journalist, now that’s a rort.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 08 Mar 2015 16:27:35 +1300

Labour’s position in Northland is a “rort”
Labour's position is ah, fraught...?

simon g

Sun, 08 Mar 2015 14:34:42 +1300

Ever wonder why the PM acts like a 5 year old? Perhaps it's because there are 5 year olds in the press gallery.

Patrick Gower says Labour's position in Northland is a "rort". Now, it could be debatably described with various words – "tactically muddled", for instance.

But there can't…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:53:06 +1300

Winston Peters and other (except National's) Candidates meeting

2 pm Sunday
Swamp Palace
Oruru (10 minute drive for some ;)

Winston Peters

Wednesday evening Taipa Tavern
Taipa (15 min drive for some ;)

Winston Peters

back of the Bus
"Follow Me"

john_metz

Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:22:17 +1300

Its called MMP !

BenWilson

Thu, 05 Mar 2015 22:59:20 +1300

3 News poll puts Peters ahead.

What day is it today? ;)

The Quickening. There can be only one....

Kumara Republic

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:12:34 +1300

(In UK politics, where there are more MPs and five year terms, by-elections have more importance in that a government with a small majority will tend to have it eroded by subsequent by-elections which tend to go against the party in power. This happened to the 74-79 Labour government).

Also…

william blake

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:33:09 +1300

We spent a week in te tai tokerau in January, it was heaven on earth. We lived on avocados, watermelon and sweet corn. Little brown dog allowed in the campsite, perfect surf.

Swerve left at Kiataia through Coopers beach, Kerikeri, Paihia. Dirty water and cruise ships, flash houses and exotic…

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:01:58 +1300

One thing to note as well. Of 6 people the other night who have the right to vote this By Election, 5 knew and were happy Winston was here and were going to vote. One who "just didn't vote" mentioned that "nothing ever changes for him, no matter who's in"…

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 18:01:04 +1300

after all, people are not slow to voice their opinions across a range of platforms (social media, text voting etc)

It's called "lazy". Social media ,text opinions are at hand. Cell phs are every where. Actually getting off your arse to go on a protest on the other hand.... actually…

simon g

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 17:35:59 +1300

I do get your point on the fact we can’t choose candidates’ places on that list. I’ve been present for an election in Peru where people could write in the name of a preferred candidate to bump that candidate up the list; and seen other places where you get to…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:45:53 +1300

useful for the party apparatus to judge the candidate’s mettle before potentially standing them in a more-winnable seat

Interestingly, with National’s last three train-crashes (Mike Sabin, Aaron Gilmore and Claudette Hauiti) this process did not take place.

This would be worse if you had a ban on dual-candidacy. You’d get…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:33:15 +1300

I don’t think they need to stand 130 candidates or even that the greens need to stand any. I think the Greens in 2002 and 2005 only ran candidates to ensure there was momentum to get the vote out ..they don’t try and “win"them so to speak..

Of course they…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:20:50 +1300

I do get your point on the fact we can't choose candidates' places on that list. I've been present for an election in Peru where people could write in the name of a preferred candidate to bump that candidate up the list; and seen other places where you get to…

sean mahoney

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:25:28 +1300

ok but I don't think they are more "worthy" they are different (to me anyway). However assume that the voters of Northland were aware of Sabins "issues" or felt there was personal issues with him and had rejected him at the 2014 election but hed been high on the list,…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:18:36 +1300

I think you need to parse my words again:
...would have been considered “worthy” by your logic

As in; you believe that someone who wins an electorate seat (even where that seat, like Helensville or Mangere, would be won by the proverbial trained monkey with the appropriate coloured rosette) is…

sean mahoney

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:08:07 +1300

..which is fine , but I find the use of the words "worthy" of my logic (not my commas) sarcastic ....I am content with my logic (or I would change it...logically) and content that others don't agree with it..cant that be challenged openly ?

simon g

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:04:19 +1300

Sean, I think your logic is being fairly challenged, on your own terms. You state:

"People should either be list candidates or electorate candidates".

Which means, candidates should avoid fighting for seats they may not win. The consequences of that can be easily foreseen, none of them good for democracy.

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:01:39 +1300

Highlights a couple of the unplanned consequences of the current system,

I disagree. Entirely planned consequences, which were a clear policy choice subsequently confirmed by the recent Electoral Commission review of MMP.

Agree with the approach or not (and there are arguments both ways) this is not an accident.

sean mahoney

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:59:10 +1300

I don't think they need to stand 130 candidates or even that the greens need to stand any. I think the Greens in 2002 and 2005 only ran candidates to ensure there was momentum to get the vote out ..they don't try and "win"them so to speak..

sean mahoney

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:54:04 +1300

No but it highlights a serious issue which is closed lists and electorates and people being on each throws up some oddities. Auckland central in the last(possibly 2 ) elections has had 3 candidates all of whom are MPs after the election, its actually a potential democratic deficit in that…

sean mahoney

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:51:58 +1300

" worthy " of my logic...Oh I get it..my logic isn't as good as yours..i bow to your undoubted wisdom on all things ...so lets see where Little chooses to stand next time. I imagine the elbow might come out as the tv images of him losing the electorate seat…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:20:29 +1300

At present many candidates ( including Andrew Little ) were rejected at the polls but still in Parliament.

No, that is not how voting is supposed to work. You vote FOR someone based on how well they will represent you in Parliament, not against someone you don't want.
Andrew Little…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:15:42 +1300

many candidates ( including Andrew Little ) were rejected at the polls but still in Parliament.

Thing is, there can only be one electorate MP. Jacinda and Nikki, for example, are both clearly very popular but only one of them could win. And look at Pull-ya Benefit and Carmel in…

simon g

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:11:51 +1300

I can never understand the logic that says if you receive 11,698 votes (Hekia Parata) you shouldn't be in Parliament, but if you receive 0 votes (Steven Joyce), then you should.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:06:47 +1300

many candidates ( including Andrew Little ) were rejected at the polls but still in Parliament. There may be a good reason they are rejected yet this gets wiped out

They weren't rejected at the polls. If the voters (as a whole) wanted to reject Andrew Little, they could have…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:05:59 +1300

he'd be resigning as the electorate MP, and then there'd have to be another by-election.

Thank you Graeme.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 13:59:09 +1300

he’d be resigning as the electorate MP
Could the MP not make it clear in their resignation letter what they are resigning as?

Also, consider:
S.55 (1) The seat of any member of Parliament shall become vacant...
and
S.134 (1) If the Speaker is satisfied that the seat of a…

simon g

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 13:53:04 +1300

I can't see much point in getting worked up about 1 MP affecting proportionality based on the general election result, when 120 MPs could do that any time they wanted.

(I'm not implying that party-hopping should be banned, it's a lesser evil than total party control removing members' independence, but…

sean mahoney

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 13:52:58 +1300

Highlights a couple of the unplanned consequences of the current system, People should either be list candidates or electorate candidates. At present many candidates ( including Andrew Little ) were rejected at the polls but still in Parliament. There may be a good reason they are rejected yet this gets…

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 13:47:41 +1300

Which I think means that he could resign, in order to install the next list MP, before the official return but after the polls have closed and by doing so he would not stand the risk of losing his place on the list if he were to lose, as it…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 13:30:54 +1300

A list MP winning a by-election hasn’t yet happened, and there are some differences of opinion over the exact process. I’m of the view that the resignation would have to happen before the writ for the by-election was officially returned, but I understand that the Chief Electoral Officer disagrees.

Its…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 12:58:52 +1300

Read the article again.

Steve Barnes

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 12:53:29 +1300

So if I understand correctly, you are saying Winston would have to resign his list seat before the by-election?.
If he has to do this and doesn't gain the seat, could he then re-instate himself to a list position?.

Heather W.

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 10:44:48 +1300

Thanks for the full explanation Graeme. And for providing links for enrollment.

Several people I've talked to recently hadn't realised they needed to update details after moving or even adding a RAPID number – no, it's not done automatically.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 10:41:50 +1300

Interesting.

I suspect one conclusion, if you're the sort of person who thinks democracy is a waste of public money, is that we shouldn't have by-elections and should instead just allow the departing members party to nominate a new candidate, maintaining proportionality. I would not agree with that though, although…

Andrew Geddis

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 09:52:27 +1300

Just wondering if a voter was on the Maori role for the 2014 election are they able to enrol on the general role for the by-election?

No. They can't.

Once a person is on the Maori/General roll, they may only change rolls during the "electoral option period" following each census.…

Kim_Wright

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 09:10:37 +1300

Just wondering if a voter was on the Maori role for the 2014 election are they able to enrol on the general role for the by-election?

Jeanette King

Sun, 01 Mar 2015 18:43:30 +1300

Thanks for this Graeme. It answers the question that I'd just been thinking about. As you say, it highlights interesting aspects about our MMP system. Mauriora!

Public Address

Sun, 01 Mar 2015 18:43:30 +1300

Discussion from blog post.