Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: Strange bedfellows

Lewis Holden

Sat, 25 Aug 2012 11:21:44 +1200

In a way, I wonder if Jordan and Winston have painted themselves into a corner on the issue of the proposed changes being put to a referendum.

It was clear to me campaigning for MMP that the public doesn't like the horse-trading encouraged by the one-seat rule, or the patent…

Graeme Edgeler

Wed, 22 Aug 2012 18:13:51 +1200

Wait, is Winston saying the changes to the system are undemocratic because people haven’t had a chance to vote on them (an undemocratic process of change) or undemocratic because they reduce the democratic nature of our future electoral system (an relatively undemocratic outcome)?

I believe both. Winston opposes change without…

tussock

Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:06:59 +1200

Wait, is Winston saying the changes to the system are undemocratic because people haven't had a chance to vote on them (an undemocratic process of change) or undemocratic because they reduce the democratic nature of our future electoral system (an relatively undemocratic outcome)?

Because you can have either one without…

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:32:45 +1200

I would be happy with parliament enacting this, with two concerns:

1. That the electoral commission considered the reality of politics in amongst its reasoning for making certain choices.
2. That parliament might not accept their recommendations.

If those weren't true, I'd be completely fine with parliament making the change…

FletcherB

Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:09:56 +1200

We have had plenty of referendums, they don't do anything. The politicians ignore the results.

Like the introduction of MMP ? Never happened huh?

Some referendums are binding...

Other referendums have been so poorly worded that you cant pay attention to the results. You could have an evenly split population…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:01:39 +1200

We have had plenty of referendums, they don't do anything. The politicians ignore the results.

There are non-binding referendums and binding referendums. I am proposing a binding referendum.

Angus Robertson

Tue, 21 Aug 2012 09:27:51 +1200

We have had plenty of referendums, they don't do anything. The politicians ignore the results.

Moz

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:23:08 +1200

I'm in favour of adding the referendum to whatever general election comes up after parliament et al come up with the referendum question. Letting parliament decide is too likely to result in a supermajority in favour of disadvantaging recalcitrant small parties.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:53:51 +1200

I guess one argument is that having a referendum over a few minor tweaks would be a waste of energy on a subject few people care about.

An alternative might be to have a wider ranging constitutional review, maybe considering areas such as making BORA and the Treaty basic (overriding)…

simon g

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:34:06 +1200

No. Until Graeme's post, I thought I was in a minority of one.

I bring no qualifications to the discussion, except a rough and ready sense of fairness. Which tells me ...

1) A National-Labour agreement, opposed by minor parties, would be wrong. It might get 75% in Parliament, so…

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:55:53 +1200

So I guess the question for everyone here is: are you fine with Parliament making changes to the thresholds, etc. without them going to a public vote?

Public Address

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:55:53 +1200

Discussion from blog post.