... and which, to be cold about it, no party really had the money or inclination to contest at that point in the…

Yes. Just a simple parliamentary vote.

I presume you're referring to the…

They won't. Cunliffe has basically said so.

What it would be is a gross waste of taxpayer money on a political stunt.

And at least, as far as I understand the law, it can be avoided without a dirty little stitch-up to retrospectively change the Electoral Act under urgency, despite the utter lack of genuine public…

ETA: We shall see in a week's time whether it's my assessment or Rich's that is correct.

make it a beagle

But the offense was also committed against the people of Aotearoa, so he owes us ... one term of being a 120% honest MP. And a goat.

Hmmm, it's actually quite light on fraud. I was expecting a horsewhipping, or maybe bastinadoing (could be mixing up with Islam here). But it seems that it's only paying back what was taken fraudulently + 20%, with a…

I was thinking that him being a fundamentalist Christian he'd appreciate a bit of biblical stylin'. But Kant also works for me.

Banks sanctified

If we send him off to the Vatican after he's convicted, can we refuse to let him back in on the grounds of…

Heh, long live Kant? I'm down with deterrence, and removal of the the offender from ability to offend again, and restitution if possible. But not retribution. Tempting though it is. Last thing anyone needs…

That's my feeling. Especially since a fine doesn't really match the nature of the offense. For normal fraud it's pretty straightforward: someone (tried to) obtain money illegally, so…

Yes, I wouldn't find it a compelling argument for clemency, personally. The lack of contrition would seem to me the most aggravating factor for a heavy sentence, which could be mitigated by an open and honest confession. Considering that the kind of people who actually commit this…

Oh, someone pull out the world's smallest violin and go play that tune to the next beneficiary whose "clerical error" (AKA failing to fully and promptly declare income) get their arses prosecuted for…

It was his, and his council's, decision to not guarantee $50,000 a year for 3 years, that prompted the owners to to look elsewhere and ultimately the Event Dept…

I actually think it's just that our police do not see crimes against the integrity of our electoral system as truly criminal. At least, not unless they're so completely egregious that it's impossible to ignore, such as falsely registering hundreds of voters. Something…

Everybody does it apparently, and Banks is no better nor worse!
Banks made a mistake. It wasn't the crime of the century. Police made the correct decision in the first place to let the matter lie.

Spoiler:
Not for the first time,…

Scott Yorke has been pondering the connection.

even Saturday's Herald editorial "Minimising Banks' crime doubly wrong" doesn't buy that line.

The situation was, said Justice Wylie, "engineered" by Mr Banks. The Epsom MP had either known the return was false or…

If he was a political high-flyer on an upwards trajectory – Darren Hughes, say – that might be a reasonable position to take. But he's not. He's a politician whose career was coming to…

I…

__"Mr Prebble also downplayed the seriousness of the offence Mr Banks had been found guilty of, which carries a maximum penalty of two years…

In the NZ context, certainly. Political corruption exists, but is really quite pathetic in the grand scheme of things and being caught does generally put the brakes…

The ACT Party's current law and order policy is here and features the following:

ACT…

I agree.

But contest costs cut both ways, and the parties who might contest it seriously have their own money issues; they also don't have a plethora of wealthy…

Come sentencing day, it will…

I reckon if he won't do this, then Labour should refuse to vote for any by-election cancellation, especially given that Key seems wedded to trying to gift Epsom to ACT…

No it's not. They can't sit on their laurels just because Justice moves Slowly. They are in…

There's no downside in doing that, in Epsom. If they don't vote…

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

That's hardly a new development.You could even claim that Banks is the most "professional" of the three ACT MPs who've been found guilty of an offence in court. Then there was the ridiculous Trevor Loudon, who…

– cut ACT loose and actively campaign to win Epsom
Downside would be that there are quite a lot of ACToid zombies left, and hence a good chance they'd waste a percent or so of votes
Also, I guess National are loath to behead…

I agree – but I think that in their minds they've moved on (Why can't everybody else! don't they understand!) – I do kind of get the impression…

Probably not, but they're still associated via that name and that association is doing what remains of their reputation no good whatsoever.

What really gets me though is that they run the editorial, buried on-line- – but no where…

That is not, however, what the law says. The law says "conviction" not "found guilty", and he's not yet convicted.

From the verdict:
"Mr Banks is a…

I was going to say "that's what it said on Radio NZ" but it occurs to me now that the person who said it was a very excited Graham McCready.

A firm reason for Labour not to play this game at all is by that point in the electoral cycle if they don't have…

No, the judge asked for a report on Banks' suitability for home detention. They're not the same thing. It's a standard pre-sentence report which is necessary for the judge to make an informed decision. If it came down to prison…

I was speaking based on a hypothetical sentencing now, not on a real sentencing after Parliament has been dissolved. At the time I asked the initial question it hadn't made the news that sentencing wasn't…

As Graeme has observed on Twitter, they wouldn't still be sitting to enable a vote. Which would be needed to *not* have a byelection. Oops.

Apparently not. As per previous comment, the judge said it would be at least home detention.

The judge said it would be at least home detention.

A by-election would not be redundant. The reason being that a by-election is unlikely to replace a criminal* MP by another of the same party. At a general election, that might subside into the general mush.

That would be a firm reason for Labour to refuse to support a…

No, there will not. A general election is due in just over three months. Sentencing is not due, apparently, until 1 August, by which time the House will have risen ahead of the election. Even if he were sentenced now, it is unlikely that [[http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0087/latest/DLM309461.html|more…

Banks isn't, according to those that know, likely to get more than a fine.

The main consequence of his fraud has always been that he'll lose his seat and there will be a by-election, where Seymour would need to try and get elected in place of…

Found guilty, rather. Talk about begging the question!

Is a DWOC even overly likely? It would, to my eyes, come across as a slightly…

Easy mistake to make.

Why hasn’t Leunig been given a Nobel Prize for communication?
His brilliant cartoon The sound of democracy resonates around the actions of Banks et al…

I’ve just finished reading his delightful and thought provoking [[http://www.penguin.co.nz/products/9780670074686/essential-leunig-cartoons-winding-path| __The Essential Leunig, cartoons from…

Confirmed that no 347 application was argued. If Banks loses the judicial review on the basis that you shouldn't really be able to judicially review a committal decision in these circumstances, that may be the next step.

Yes, and Stuff is reporting (as predicted), that the decision should be out next week. No-one mentioning an application under s 347 of the Crimes Act, as yet.

Even so... I'd like to think the vast majority of potential jurors, whether politically right or left leaning... would attempt to evaluate a case on it's…

And that might be the most interesting piece of evidence. Presumably the GCSB will have the call logs.

I certainly haven't seen the evidence, so my belief could easily be misinformed.

It is interesting to note that the information you point to not only backs up the claim that Dotcom didn't hand the cheques to Banks personally, but…

The Auckland High Court jury district isn't central Auckland. It goes as far north as Orewa, and stops just short of Bombay going south. Farthest west is Muriwai, and East just beyond Onetangi on Waiheke Island.

You need 11/12 of the jury for a conviction, so there's a reasonable chance of getting two hard-core righties and a retrial,…

That's not my understanding. I believe the evidence is that they are different accounts, possibly of different entities.

It occurs to me (no legal training) that judges are more likely to follow the written word of a law even if it defies "common sense" and also, are more…

A corrupt practice is an offence against specifically named sections of the Electoral Act, or similar legislation. This equivalent offence to this one in the Electoral Act is a corrupt practice (as are things like destroying ballot papers,…

I don't really do wine. Do you do bacon?

PPS Note to self: Must re-read Awatere-Huata before making any more wagers. The role of the Speaker and the effect of parliamentary privilege may be crucial.

It is definitely possible – I…

It’s the conviction that matters, not the the actual sentence. Any conviction for any…

The sentence is irrelevant. The law says merely that one must be convicted of a crime carrying a maximum sentence of two years or more imprisonment, not that such sentence must be passed.

This is the key point in how I've looked at the possible outcome through my limited legal knowledge. Entering the conviction appears, based on Graeme's quite persuasive reasoning, to be the end of the matter for Banks…

Every time I've mentioned this recently, I have been careful to phrase this around an MP being convicted, not an MP being found guilty.

(2) There remains an interpretative question, perhaps for the Speaker, about whether “is…

I imagine not very much (to date). Banks will be paying Court fees that will cover a bit, and it's not as if they've hired extra judges or staff to work on it. Now that…

The Courts are not without options, e.g. if there was a point of law on which a conviction might turn, a Court might decline to formally…