Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: Police: "Ambrose not guilty"

Chris Waugh

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:03:23 +1300

Brilliant idea! After all, the police wouldn't be hauling you before the court if you hadn't done something wrong. And of course, if you keep your nose clean, you've got nothing to fear. Only Bad People ever get in any trouble with the police.

philg

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:46:27 +1300

Why don't we do away with legal process and just accept the police judgement that the recording incident was illegal and proceed on that basis. It would save a lot of money dearest John and Bill. xx

peterpeasant

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:03:00 +1300

Police opinion is irrelevant.
Charge or not charge is police job.
Opinion is irrelevant.

Police behaviour in this non case is highly suspect.

NO! I am not a conspiracy theorist but police people appear to be talking rather a lot about this non police event.

DexterX

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:58:56 +1300

Key gets confused – his version of turning the other cheek is mooning everyone – he was actually thinking buttock as in butt cheek.

Alistair McBride

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:00:43 +1300

The general understanding of turn the other cheek is about forgiveness. It actually is instruction to a slave who having been struck (backhanded) on the cheek (the left) by his master turns his other (the right) inviting the master to treat him as an equal – the blow that follows…

Russell Brown

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:29:13 +1300

Graeme – I’m guessing that S.216B of the Crimes Act requires intent, and recklessness isn’t enough.

That seems to be what the relevant commentators have said from the outset.

Also, “more likely” is not “beyond reasonable doubt?”.

It very much is not.

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:20:07 +1300

Graeme – I'm guessing that S.216B of the Crimes Act requires intent, and recklessness isn't enough. Also, "more likely" is not "beyond reasonable doubt?".

If that's the case, then Bradley Ambrose didn't intentionally record a conversation, and hence no crime was committed.

I'm thinking that if the complainant was anyone…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:25:18 +1300

It stinks to high heaven that Key got safely out of the country, accompanied by only two (probably extremely tame) members of the press before the deal was announced. I don't like the appearance of political interference and police complicity that this has going.

Sacha

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:19:25 +1300

Police giving mixed messages (3 mins, listening options).

Sacha

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:11:39 +1300

any public statements about guilt by any part of the state (e.g. police) prior to conviction are a violation of the presumption of innocence.

well put

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:01:28 +1300

… or are you saying that regardless, they shouldn’t say anything because charges weren’t laid?

I assumed the latter. Seems a sensible line in the sand.

There is some authority for the proposition that any public statements about guilt by any part of the state (e.g. police) prior to conviction…

Biobbs

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 07:44:28 +1300

Nek minnit:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6641462/Key-turns-other-cheek-over-tape

How magnanimous of him.

Russell Brown

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:23:59 +1300

I/S: Sure, there wasn’t enough to convict, and he was therefore rightly not charged – but why does that taint the Police’s view that it was “more likely deliberate”?

Keith, according to the police statement, Ambrose wasn't spared prosecution for lack of evidence — the police statement declares his conduct…

Keith Ng

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:53:31 +1300

I/S: Sure, there wasn't enough to convict, and he was therefore rightly not charged – but why does that taint the Police's view that it was "more likely deliberate"?

Are you saying that you don't believe the Police's view was formed in good faith, or are you saying that regardless,…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:56:41 +1300

It would not have worked in anybodies favour for this to have gone to trial, the police knew they had no real case and as jonkey was the instigator of this fiasco then a not guilty verdict would have looked bad for him and the police don't want to upset…

DexterX

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:22:45 +1300

Innocent Ambrose being Not Guilty wasn't the issue – the law – the Courts and the Police possess a degree of malleability – how malleable depends on influence.

Sacha

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:19:44 +1300

wondered as much myself. not a healthy trend.

Will de Cleene

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:00:42 +1300

Or try to suck up to the Nats ahead of cuts and restructuring within the police.

Idiot Savant

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:34:27 +1300

And yet they smear him as a criminal in order to save face after their over-reaction.

How typical.

Public Address

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:34:26 +1300

Discussion from blog post.