Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: New Zealand's most racist law

Graeme Edgeler

Sat, 11 Feb 2017 23:01:57 +1300

(2017) Was this act eventually amended or repealed?

No. I remain hopeful an MP will pick up the bill I drafted to amend it, but nothing yet.

Angela Hart

Sat, 11 Feb 2017 17:06:38 +1300

Which act- the NZ Health and Disability Amendment Act 2013? http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0022/latest/whole.html
Nah, still in force

Paul Paul

Sat, 11 Feb 2017 16:08:39 +1300

(2017) Was this act eventually amended or repealed?

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 08 Jan 2016 21:50:28 +1300

The outcome would not be that other people would suddenly start to be eligible to be paid to care for family, it would be that the Taituas’ arrangement would be stopped and they’d be left as miserable as everyone else.

During the 'negotiations' with MOH and before 'Atkinson' went to…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 08 Jan 2016 18:16:35 +1300

Could I make a complaint to the HRC of racial discrimination because I was not allowed to be paid as my partner’s carer and this woman was?

You could complain to the HRC but I'm guessing the couple you cite were one of those who slipped through under the radar,…

izogi

Thu, 07 Jan 2016 18:04:36 +1300

the idea of doing this by private member’s bill raises a few questions for me about where the Crown is in all of this and what its responsibility to Maori is in terms of the Treaty

Steven Joyce is now suggesting that [[http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/75680270/Steven-Joyce-backs-concerns-about-historic-Maori-only-crimes-law|this law might be updated without needing to…

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 07 Jan 2016 08:13:34 +1300

Second, Muriel Newman was the deputy leader of ACT during the foreshore and seabed debate, when ACT DID vociferously argue against the legislation on the basis of the protection of private property rights:

Well, that's one way of looking at it, but here's Richard Prebble saying:

"Labour could say the…

peteremcc

Thu, 07 Jan 2016 05:29:21 +1300

First, in 10 seconds I found Garrett commenting critically on an old Kiwiblog article about this precise issue:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/08/still_on_the_books.html#comment-862873

Second, Muriel Newman was the deputy leader of ACT during the foreshore and seabed debate, when ACT DID vociferously argue against the legislation on the basis of the protection of private…

peteremcc

Thu, 07 Jan 2016 05:22:33 +1300

I agree with you on National.

ACT tried to push them to do so in 2008-2011, but didn't have enough influence, as they went to the Maori Party for their 5 votes whenever ACT demanded too much.

Of course, none of the ACT MPs pushing for equality under the law…

Rosemary McDonald

Wed, 06 Jan 2016 10:51:22 +1300

The link that Keith Ng posted back in 2013 to the Regulatory impact statement that accompanied the NZPHDAct(2) appears to have broken.

But..here it is…I hope…

Rosemary McDonald

Wed, 06 Jan 2016 10:15:49 +1300

But it’s worse than a ridiculous law. It’s a racist law.

It has no place in New Zealand. It should never have been the law. And it certainly shouldn’t be law now.

Like the subject of this righteous rant from Keith Ng back in 2013.

Within a month…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 06 Jan 2016 09:20:10 +1300

http://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_story_id/MTI2ODU=/Opinion/New-Maori-Land-legislation-another-means-of-telling-Maori-what-to-do-with-their-land

I don't know the ins and outs of this to comment, really – mostly posted for the excellent photo of a (not very) 'relaxed and comfortable' John Key mid-hongi – is he holding his breath?

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 06 Jan 2016 06:17:50 +1300

Now the MSM follows up on Mr Edgeler's lead....
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/75620521/politicians-back-calls-to-repeal-1960s-law-with-maorionly-crimes
Prime Minister John Key has previously described parts of the law as "a bit racist".
aah well, by Joycean standards that's 'pretty legal' then?

Evan Yates

Tue, 05 Jan 2016 00:27:24 +1300

I don't generally identify as Maori, but I do have a great-great-grandmother on my father's side who was. Due to the very broad and loose definition of "Maori" in the opening section of the act, I am therefore subject to this legislation.
I'm pretty white-bread of appearance due to a…

linger

Mon, 04 Jan 2016 16:43:47 +1300

Yes, which does suggest one way forward (to be clear, I'm generally in favour of fewer restrictions, so this is not a position I entirely support myself; but it's a decision for Maori, not for me, to make). Certain civil offences (with sentences of fines or confiscation) are set and…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:38:17 +1300

So (and I talk of the present day here), should Maori as a whole (or Maori in a position of power) be able to decide to regulate individual Maori by maintaining a criminal offence that applies only to Maori and not to pakeha?

In civil law, individuals can practically decide…

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:50:04 +1300

Graeme’s post is a classic example of berating our ancestors for not having the same world views that we do.

That's probably fair.

I will note that my bigger concern is the criminal offences that remain. I have a concern about the powers, but it's not as big.

Rosemary McDonald

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:36:18 +1300

Tinakori

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:06:26 +1300

Graeme's post is a classic example of berating our ancestors for not having the same world views that we do. One of my uncles was a Maori Warden in Gisborne in the late 50s and 60s. He and his colleagues would go into the pubs on paydays and try and…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 11:18:41 +1300

Gone fishing...
familiar enough with the terrain to know there are often unexpected fishhooks
Indeed, the whole of the North Island is the result of an unexpected fishhook and the terrain as it is because people didn't follow protocols...

...this is a job for Tātaramoa!!
;- )

B Jones

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 10:10:38 +1300

I think this is a positive initiative, overall, it's just that I'm familiar enough with the terrain to know there are often unexpected fishhooks, and that efforts to do good can often be held up by plans to do better.

B Jones

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 10:07:15 +1300

Fair enough, Graeme. But the idea of doing this by private member's bill raises a few questions for me about where the Crown is in all of this and what its responsibility to Maori is in terms of the Treaty (not passing that law back in 1962 in the first…

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 09:59:39 +1300

peaking of decades, it’s been customary since the mid 80s to consult with Maori when you make policy changes that affect them. I’m assuming Graeme and Trevor M have a process in mind for doing that?

Radio New Zealand has just published a story, currently headlined [[http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/293400/maori-party-backs-call-to-change-'racist'-law|Maori Party backs call…

simon g

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 09:55:49 +1300

To those who eat chalk on toast, and write on the board with cheese:

Graeme is talking about repealing a law. In other words, doing something.

The assorted politicians cited (Brash etc) were only interested in campaigning on laws. In other words, not actually doing anything, but getting votes by…

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 09:43:55 +1300

Speaking of decades, it’s been customary since the mid 80s to consult with Maori when you make policy changes that affect them. I’m assuming Graeme and Trevor M have a process in mind for doing that?

I don't make policy changes.

The extent of consultation I'll be doing is this…

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 09:27:09 +1300

Radio New Zealand led the 7am news with this issue.

when there's no news, random bloggers make news!

B Jones

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 08:07:56 +1300

Yes, it's definitely racist to return a tiny fraction of what the state appropriated from Maori after promising it wouldn't, and also to fund health and education services in such a way as to reduce inequalities, which is why governments of every flavour have been doing it for decades.. FFS.…

John Farrell

Sun, 03 Jan 2016 07:38:02 +1300

Radio New Zealand led the 7am news with this issue.

Rosemary McDonald

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 22:10:26 +1300

A bit of background reading....

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/261146/crown-berated-over-maori-wardens

https://www.tpk.govt.nz/docs/MCDA-options-for-change.pdf

http://www.parliament.nz/resource/mi-nz/49SCMA_ADV_00DBSCH_INQ_9297_1_A138975/779d52684bd2edb4d8b1cb68472f7775934c9f11

http://maorilawreview.co.nz/2014/01/urgent-inquiry-into-reform-of-the-maori-community-development-act-1962/

http://ahi-ka-roa.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/maori-community-development-act.html

royalcourtier

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 21:22:37 +1300

These old laws are not applied now. I would have thought that the most racist laws would be those that give benefits and privileges to Maori (or Pacific Islanders) alone: in elections (separate electorates), universities (quotas and other preferential treatment), health (additional funding for Maori, over and above the normal…

B Jones

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 16:16:48 +1300

But, given their positions, and their philosophical consistency, I can guarantee you 100% that both of them would be in favour of repealing this section of law.

You'd have thought in their many years of campaigning for one law for all, they'd have spotted it and mentioned it, if only…

dave c

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 14:23:53 +1300

Here is the most recent Order Paper. One wonders when the next members ballot will be..

http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00HOHOrderPaper_20151209/b8250f6f963d3fdf16eedae9906d2125ab5f2739

peteremcc

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 13:54:40 +1300

Either you don't follow politics much, or you've let your own political bias colour your thoughts on this/them.

Brash and Newman explicitly campaigned on removing any laws that only apply to Maori.

Now, you may want to keep some of the laws that only apply to Maori, that they want…

Graeme Edgeler

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:51:53 +1300

What sorts of resources are regular MPs given in order to draft Bills prior to them going into the ballot?

They can seek assistance from the Office of the Clerk for drafting. Parties also have funding for policy staff who can assist, and discretionary budgets that could be used for…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:43:53 +1300

How easily could it be repealed without encountering a chorus of "PC gone mad!" from the Brash-oids and Muriel-oids?

Tze Ming Mok

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:38:51 +1300

Woooooaaaaaah. Campaigning for repeal is the obvious way to go, especially as this law seems so racist that no-one would actually enforce it these days, meaning that these provisions are unlikely to ever be brought before the HRRT in a discrimination challenge.

izogi

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:06:54 +1300

If an MP wants to actually pass a good law from the back benches (or from the opposition), they’re well advised to make it a simple one (or be really really careful!).

What sorts of resources are regular MPs given in order to draft Bills prior to them going into…

Graeme Edgeler

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 11:37:31 +1300

Much of the rest of the Maori Community Development Act seems antiquated as well. Not only does it not use macrons, the word it actually uses for the offence provisions is “Maoris”. It’s not quite on the same level, however. There’s been a review of the whole act going on…

Public Address

Sat, 02 Jan 2016 11:37:31 +1300

Discussion from blog post.