Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: MMP Review #3: The Submission

Venetia King

Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:02:14 +1200

Just saw the MMP review site has the lists of submitters for the Wellington hearings – Graeme's been given a half hour timeslot (almost all the others only have 15 minutes). Hope it's enough :)

I would've quite liked to observe the process but will be on an aircraft at…

Graeme Edgeler

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:49:45 +1200

Thanks!

Tim Robinson

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:31:03 +1200

And of course, if you disagree – please submit also. Your supporting reasoning will help better make the case for a position that may not be well argued at present.

Tim Robinson

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:13:41 +1200

If you're reading this thread, and thinking 'mm. Graeme has some good points, and has expressed them more eloquently than I could, so I don't need to submit.' please please reconsider, and add your voice.

I had not intended to submit until I heard, with one ear, David Farrar on…

Venetia King

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:28:04 +1200

Graeme, I very much appreciate the work you have done here. I'm not sure I would've bothered to submit to the review without the benefit of your research and opinions. Thank you for helping me take my democratic rights and responsibilities more seriously!

Quoting from my "5 minute submission" (took…

Ian Tinkler

Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:50:01 +1200

I meant to include a mention of the two populations (the NZ population which is used to apportion electorate seats (people repressented of all ages) and the voting population that is allocate seats) in my submission. However I missed it out. Really no idea why as I do rant on…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:08:36 +1200

Different uses of the word "represent".

Active "Represent" all NZers, in the sense of working for them all. But they are representative of those who voted for them.

Tim McKenzie

Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:48:06 +1200

This significantly strengthens the imperative to ensure that the voices of as many voters as possible are represented in the House of Representatives.
Members of Parliament represent all New Zealanders, not just those of voting age
Which is it? Do MPs represent all New Zealanders, or only the ones who…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:13:36 +1200

I think she (and the other Green electorate candidates) would like to be electorate MPs, but would prefer that if they don't get elected, Labour rather than National take the seat.

It's a bit of a FPP hangover though. It shouldn't actually matter if National win electorates – if the…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 10 Apr 2012 08:44:25 +1200

Perhaps you’re bemoaning the few candidates who openly discourage electorate votes for themselves such as Gareth Hughes and Paul Goldsmith.

I mostly was. I don't think Metiria Turei really wants to be an electorate MP in Dunedin either, but I acknowledge I could be wrong.

Myles Thomas

Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:12:49 +1200

A note on my "tosh". Perhaps you're bemoaning the few candidates who openly discourage electorate votes for themselves such as Gareth Hughes and Paul Goldsmith. Yet this incongruity is easily fixed by changing the One seat threshold rather than distortions created by disallowing dual candidacy (which you point out elsewhere).

Myles Thomas

Mon, 09 Apr 2012 22:42:08 +1200

I also disagree with your assumption tht voters vote for candidate they prefer at bi-elections or when looking at party lists. I believe that the vast majority of voters care little for the personality of their electorate candidate, or study party lists for names they like or dislike. Sadly I…

Myles Thomas

Mon, 09 Apr 2012 22:24:42 +1200

Re: 42 "Lots of people stand in an electorate knowing that they won’t win, but putting one’s name forward for election when you don’t even want to win seems almost dishonest, and I’m not sure we should be writing our electoral laws to benefit those who wish to run in…

Jake Pollock

Sat, 07 Apr 2012 02:13:34 +1200

This is convincing.

I think you could also connect the open list issue with the threshold issue i.e. voters who don't like the way lists are constructed by a party will be better able to vote for other parties if the threshold is lowered or removed. As it stands that…

Graeme Edgeler

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 23:15:11 +1200

Impressive content aside, some proofreading of language is still needed

I very much imagined that would be the case, but I was very very tired by the time I finished :-)

linger

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 21:54:01 +1200

Impressive content aside, some proofreading of language is still needed, e.g.:
3. “[…] a minimum that its is substantially lowered” –> “a minimum that is substantially lowered”;
5. “This significantly strengthens makes the imperative […]” –> “This significantly strengthens the imperative”;
19. “Iam” –> “I am”;
26. “we’ve had 5%…

Raymond A Francis

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:49:47 +1200

I think you have covered everything that I feel is important very well
Especially like points 55 and 87

Now it will be interesting to see if the Turkeys will vote for Christmas or at least if self interest compared with true democracy will prevail

Steve Curtis

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:47:52 +1200

Currently the Bundestag has its largest parties as the CDU at 27% and the SPD at 23%. All smaller than the NSDAP in all of the elections of 1932-3. I cant see how a threshold would have changed anything in 1933 or as I have shown give a more stable…

Graeme Edgeler

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:03:21 +1200

Hard to see why the reference to the Nazi party was necessary.

Because that's a common example used by those who favour high thresholds.

Steve Curtis

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 12:47:00 +1200

Hard to see why the reference to the Nazi party was necessary.The Weimar Republic introduced proportional representation in Germany , not the Allied occupation.
The National Socialist Freedom Party, on its first attempt in the first election of 1924, won 6.5% and 32 MPs. And while they didnt get over…

Graeme Edgeler

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:16:12 +1200

Not even 7000 words. I have failed :-)

Public Address

Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:16:11 +1200

Discussion from blog post.