Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: Kim Dotcom: all the fault of the Immigration Act?

Marc C

Sat, 03 Nov 2012 21:51:37 +1300

What an excellent bit of research and legal analysis this is! Thanks for that. We know by now, that Key picks and chooses whatever arguments may suit his agenda. Was it not similar with the 100 per cent pure defence in the Steven Sakur interview on BBC a couple of…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:23:38 +1300

Mr Key told Parliament Mr Peters was "referring to a chap whose last name I do not know; his first name is Regan. I thought Regan was a second name like Ronald Regan. This two first names/right leaning thing has no end?.
/gets cloak and dagger...

DexterX

Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:04:31 +1300

Cover up almost complete – Scapegoat found and outed.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:15:41 +1300

I discovered the other day that GCSB has its own creche/preschool.

It's a pity they don't have a primary school as well:

Little Johnny: "What does your dad do then?"
Little Jimmy: "He's a spy"
Kids: "boring! All our dads are spies"
Little Johnny: "My dad's an estate agent"
Kids:…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:20:27 +1300

I see a GCSB employee, agent CX (110) has been
put on "gardening leave"

What happened to agents 86 and 99?

The border between chaos and control
still seems parlous and porous....

DexterX

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:47:37 +1300

The Planet Key Magical Secrecy Tour Bus.

John Key – "Hey everybody stay calm, I think I've got it all under control – no leaks here".

DexterX

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:59:18 +1300

Shearer is not a fool – The Labour caucus would be foolish not to support Shearer and help him drive the issue.

When the house resumes Davis Shearer will be able to exercise parliamentary privilege in an effort to out "the truth".

There are too many layers and a group…

Kyle Matthews

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:07:15 +1300

Well, if this turns out to be no more than “someone told me something” I’m not sure it says anything about Shearer’s character. But, boy, it says a metric fuckton about his political judgement.

Indeed. His source is a video taken inside the GCSB. If he doesn't have a copy…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:49:17 +1300

Warning: Truth may be optional....
In 99%+ of Government cock-ups it is not the original stuff-up that causes the most damage, it is the cover-up.
Meanwhile back in the USA the Benghazi Consulate incident
is falling apart...
...the State Department conceded that it had never concluded that the Sept. 11…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:05:53 +1300

That this is turning into an attack on Shearer’s character is a trifle absurd.

Well, if this turns out to be no more than "someone told me something" I'm not sure it says anything about Shearer's character. But, boy, it says a metric fuckton about his political judgement.

Matthew Poole

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:54:16 +1300

Shearer could as part of the Committee ask someone from GCSB, the Minister in charge all mmanner of people a version of the question – “WTF is going on?”, and expect an answer.

Sadly, the only person Shearer is allowed to question in any detail is the Minister. As I've…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:12:39 +1300

That this is turning into an attack on Shearer’s character is a trifle absurd.

Oh when will they learn?.
In 99%+ of Government cock-ups it is not the original stuff-up that causes the most damage, it is the cover-up. The longer jonkey fluffs around saying "I know nothing" the more…

DexterX

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:53:37 +1300

In any situation if you need to come clean do it early.

Shearer as Leader of the Opposition is one of the Committee who "oversee" the operation of the GCSB – so in this role he can be rightfully concerned with the operation of the GCSB.

To be in a…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:51:29 +1300

Fixed CBC link

David Hood

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:40:05 +1300

if there has been an “unauthorised disclosure of information"

Mind you, this is nothing on the current Canadian “unauthorised disclosure of information" case.
cbc story

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:07:40 +1300

Nope. Hasn’t changed in hundreds of years. Lets go for the messenger!!!

Well, of course, this can all be settled when David Shearer produces evidence to back up the pretty damn serious allegations he made on Campbell Live tonight. I’m certain John Campbell would broadcast it in a heartbeat. Right?…

Ross Mason

Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:53:01 +1300

Stuff Tonight

Fletcher said “exhaustive enquries” at the GCSB have revealed no video tape. Still photographs exist but would not be released because they identify staff at the super-secret agency.An investigation was now underway into the ‘‘leak’’ at the agency, he said.

“The department has made exhaustive enquiries…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:00:01 +1300

Jolly good :)

mark taslov

Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:49:28 +1300

I got it ;)

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:59:58 +1300

“What you do want, when do you want it, how do you want it, OK it’s yours”.

Yes, that's what I said.......
Painting a view I am relaxed and comfortable with and totally reject that anyone wants to argue, plus I am not in a position to comment on that…

DexterX

Thu, 11 Oct 2012 07:17:27 +1300

Key in the all of this affair (KDC and TPPA) seems out of his depth, such a patsy. It would be surprising if his approach to negotiations (with the US in particular) was, “What you do want, when do you want it, how do you want it, OK it’s yours”.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:26:38 +1300

I think John Campbell is running with the Dotcom story really well. As they widen their interest they tell us, Painting a view I am relaxed and comfortable with and totally reject that anyone wants to argue, plus I am not in a position to comment on that and at…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 10 Oct 2012 21:11:05 +1300

This media trail is the biggest smokescreen since George Burns.

mark taslov

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:24:17 +1300

they spy on whomever they want

Indeed, and not forgetting the SIS. This media trail is the biggest smokescreen since George Burns.

Steve Withers

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:03:15 +1300

It seems fairly clear they spy on whomever they want and make implausible excuses if caught...and then work hard to not get caught. This is the pattern of virtually every such incident in a Western nation over the past several decades. The secrecy around the work they do is used…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:00:50 +1300

Well you could say that about all select committees, I’m not sure it applies more to this one.

Only about committees where the PM is the Minister who's being held to account for their departments'/ministries' performance. Which is very, very few portfolios, and the only portfolio that is traditionally in…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:37:18 +1300

Well you could say that about all select committees, I’m not sure it applies more to this one.

True, although there are other ways of holding other departments to account, so it matters less.

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:11:59 +1300

Which, by extension, would make it logical for the Chair of the Intelligence & Security Committee to be the Leader of the Opposition. They thus have zero to fear from incurring the wrath of the PM by asking awkward questions.

Well you could say that about all select committees, I'm not…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 14:04:09 +1300

but he’s not in charge, honest

The law certainly disagrees, even if the PM tries to argue otherwise.

The GCSB Act says at s8(3): The performance of the Bureau’s functions is subject to the control of the Minister.
The NZSIS Act says at s4(1): __Subject to the control of the…

Sacha

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 13:17:07 +1300

Things such as possible "impropriety" on the part of the intelligence agencies can only be investigated if the Minister concurs.

but he's not in charge, honest

Matthew Poole

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 13:04:33 +1300

Oh, and it gets better when one examines the functions of the Inspector General and discovers that the IG is not allowed to just look into anything at any time but, rather, can only look into certain matters at will. Things such as possible "impropriety" on the part of the…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:43:41 +1300

less likely that a chair is going to stand up and say “man the minister [who is also the PM and holds my political future in his hand] screwed this up bad” than in some other countries.

Which, by extension, would make it logical for the Chair of the Intelligence…

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:15:47 +1300

I would mind considerably less if one of them wasn’t statutorily required to be the person whose agencies are meant to be kept in check by this Committee. And did I mention that he’s also the Chair? The fox guarding the hen house is a rather apt metaphor.

Well yes.…

Sacha

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 10:49:35 +1300

But Banks? Can't even take oversight of his own campaign for mayor, let alone oversight of a secret government agency.

He's always been an enthusiastic patsy.

Matthew Poole

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 10:28:48 +1300

I don’t mind the majority of the committee being from the house majority.

I would mind considerably less if one of them wasn't statutorily required to be the person whose agencies are meant to be kept in check by this Committee. And did I mention that he's also the Chair?…

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 09:38:03 +1300

So we’ve got a Committee that is one-fifth the Minister in charge of the portfolio, one-fifth the Leader of the Opposition, two-fifths the Minister’s hand-picked nominees (currently Dunne and Banks), and the remaining fifth a nominee of the Leader of the Opposition (currently Norman). I count three fifths of the…

mark taslov

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 03:56:17 +1300

http://youtu.be/_NfoBse_3C4

FletcherB

Mon, 08 Oct 2012 00:29:01 +1300

Mark, cheers... exactly what I was wanting to know...

mark taslov

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:08:51 +1300

If you have, however, arrived to NZ before 29 November 2010, you would not have been granted a resident visa on arrival. This is because prior to that date Australian citizens were exempt from holding visas or permits for NZ, but were still allowed to remain here indefinitely. If you…

Matthew Poole

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 20:29:43 +1300

Its true of much of our Committee structure. It’s good for some things, and avoids some things we might want it to avoid, but it doesn’t do hard-hitting inquiries in public or private.
What I find so discomfiting about this situation is that, unlike pretty much every other executive branch,…

DexterX

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 18:56:33 +1300

So Dot Com should initiate a judicial review on quite a range of matters?

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 16:22:24 +1300

One comment he made was that the constitutionally-established oversight roles that the legislature and judiciary have wrt the executive’s agencies are taken seriously, and used seriously. The problem we’re having here, I realised, is that the head of the executive is also the person who has control of the spy…

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 16:18:58 +1300

but Hager the indefatigable…

Rhymes with lager :-)

DexterX

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 11:06:01 +1300

Looking at the Intelligence and Security Committee Act 1996, I note that the Committee is explicitly forbidden to enquire “into any matter that is operationally sensitive, including any matter that relates to intelligence collection and production methods or sources of information”,

Consider the fruther revelations that will come with ongoing…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:14:15 +1300

That should probably be changed.
Especially if that person admits that
they aren't even paying attention....

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:12:13 +1300

Hagar’s Book
Not Hagar the Horrible.
but Hager the indefatigable...

Sacha

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:03:44 +1300

the man who only considers it necessary for ministers of the Crown to act legally, not ethically.

Unless they're Richard Worth, in which case some different 'standard' applies..

Matthew Poole

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 09:13:24 +1300

the culture at the GCSB is that individuals act in accordance with directions, are task focused and work largely in isolation of each other.

Compartmentalisation is a characteristic of spooky organisations, so nothing surprising there, and ELINT is the kind of field where one person can be extraordinarily productive. Being,…

DexterX

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 22:45:04 +1300

had [Kim Dotcom] come to New Zealand at the time, without changes to the other laws, in particular GCSB's law, then his activities would not have been protected.

Key’s choice of language, or the language chosen for him, is interesting – "his activities would not have been protected" – the…

DexterX

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 21:26:22 +1300

Hi Gregg.

micky savage

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 17:29:11 +1300

Oops I am a year out ...

There goes that conspiracy theory ...

micky savage

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:56:08 +1300

Can I check my understanding Graeme?

Until November 29, 2010 or the date that he arrived in New Zealand and obtained a resident's permit whichever date is earlier the GCSB had power over Dotcom. After the earlier of those dates it did not?

And dare I be a conspiracy nut…

FletcherB

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 15:46:50 +1300

Not relevant to KDC, but may I ask.....

Australians living permanently in NZ...

What is their legal residency status?

They have no visa, no permit, no paperwork at all from any govt department.... just an arrival stamp in their passport.... they can stay for a few days and call it…

nzlemming

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 15:35:32 +1300

But that still leaves the GCSB operating for over a year without taking cognizance of a law change that affected their operating authority. That's incredibly poor management within the Bureau, and crap supervision from above. At Matthew Poole has been saying, here and there, this is the real issue for…

Ian MacKay

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:08:06 +1300

Vindicated Rich of Observationz. Interesting stuff from you and Graeme to layman's eyes. (I would never make it as a lawyer!)

Graeme Edgeler

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:25:45 +1300

I thought so at the time Key was claiming this source of confusion

Nice work. Now I've even less of an excuse for not looking into it more deeply.

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 11:09:19 +1300

I thought so at the time Key was claiming this source of confusion:
http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-kim-dotcom-questions-and-answers/?p=271044#post271044

Public Address

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 11:09:18 +1300

Discussion from blog post.