Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: Enhancing democracy

Moz

Sun, 09 Nov 2008 12:19:35 +1300

I think we might see a lot more of it now that the parties who work with MMP instead of against it are in opposition (deperately scraping for the silver lining).

I like the idea of party (leader) bills, that makes more sense than changing the member's bills.

Peter Ashby

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 03:19:20 +1300

An interesting idea. It does point up that much of the way government and the parliament are run has not adapted to MMP yet. Rather than look at how FPP legislatures like Westminster do it, does anyone know how countries with proportional mulitparty government do it? Germany for instance.

The…

tussock

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:26:18 +1300

I'd hate to see the member's bills become a party piece, I think the reason the Greens got so many passed this term is that they where largely conscience vote stuff outside their core policies (even if the LabNats party-vote them and go on to simultaneously claim credit and blame…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:48:58 +1300

I'm thinking of Jim Anderton here, who has presumably not had the opportunity to put a bill in that ballot for some time now (is he still around?)

Jim Anderton got to advance his personal 'war on drugs' crusade and ban party pills on government time. One more reason why…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:36:38 +1300

Actually it's "proportionate to your number of non-cabinet MPs", so the governing parties would have fewer chances.

Fewer chances to advance members bills, debated on every second Wednesday (but the same as at present, of course – they cannot have members bills now, either). Much much greater chance (i.e. any…

Moz

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:21:08 +1300

Actually it's "proportionate to your number of non-cabinet MPs", so the governing parties would have fewer chances. It also makes small parties ministerships slightly more costly but on balance I think it's a good idea. I'm thinking of Jim Anderton here, who has presumably not had the opportunity to put…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:59:28 +1300

In some ways it's too easy to legislate in NZ, and this would make it easier. It also interferes with the idea that a government gets elected, governs for three years, and is judged on its record.

Incidentally, in the UK there are a lot less members bills and they…

Idiot Savant

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:06:29 +1300

I believe a majority of eligible MPs (i.e. non-Ministers) have a bill in most ballots. Certainly not all the Labour and National members all the time

Not even close. National obviously submits more bills than labour (because Labour can get bills through as the government, and its easier to lobby…

Raymond A Francis

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:03:31 +1300

Graeme, you do come up with some interesting ideas
And this or something that had a similar effect would enhance our Parliament
IS 's idea of more members days seems a reasonable way to achieve this

Idiot Savant

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:01:00 +1300

I've long had the thought that changes in procedure like this could be advanced as part of a confidence and supply deal.

Or cooked up between the minor parties as a united demand, on the basis that whichever major party is in opposition will leap at he opportunity.

Minority government…

Idiot Savant

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:59:01 +1300

The chances of your bills coming out would be proportionate to the number of MPs you had.

Precisely. Which is entirely fair.

Superfically, this would advantage the larger parties – but only because they consistently underutilise their ballot opportunities at present. In practice, all it does is allow parties to…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:55:46 +1300

The chances of your bills coming out would be proportionate to the number of MPs you had.

Distinctly possible. Seems pretty fair to me.

If there were 10 bills in the ballot, you have a 1 in ten chance. If someone drops in 40 more bills, you suddenly have a…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:49:06 +1300

But dammit, I want more as well.

I've long had the thought that changes in procedure like this could be advanced as part of a confidence and supply deal.

At this election for example, the Maori Party on the cross-benches with either party governing, or the Greens if National wins,…

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:43:55 +1300

Spamming the ballot? Wouldn't do too much harm.

Wouldn't it be possible, if there were bills in the ballot that you didn't want to appear, to spam the ballot with duplicates which would drastically reduce the chances of them seeing the light of day?

If there were 10 bills in…

Idiot Savant

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:30:43 +1300

There's something to be said for minimal, easy change as being more likely to succeed. And it would demonstrate that letting Parliament (as opposed to just the government) have more say won't be the end of the world. But dammit, I want more as well.

One consequence of allowing spamming…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:32:08 +1300

I think if we want Parliament to be able to act more like a legislature rather than just a rubberstamp for the executive, then we need to go further, and have members days happening every week, not just every two.

I agree. The major problem with that is getting sufficient…

Idiot Savant

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:50:04 +1300

Spamming the ballot? Wouldn't do too much harm. But I think if we want Parliament to be able to act more like a legislature rather than just a rubberstamp for the executive, then we need to go further, and have members days happening every week, not just every two. The…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:49:36 +1300

How would you propose that all those duplicated bills be disposed of?

One of two ways – it doesn't really matter which:

1. Remove them before the second or subsequent bill is drawn from the ballot.

2. Have the ballot anyway, and if one gets picked, then simply ignore it…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:39:43 +1300

How would you propose that all those duplicated bills be disposed of? And would a member then be subject to some kind of stand-down if their bill wasn't the one drawn but was one of the duplicates?

Public Address

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:39:43 +1300

Discussion from blog post.