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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: Begging for trouble</title>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121531#post121531</link>
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						Can I barter it for advice on how to get your WiFi to connect?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:26:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121411#post121411</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121411#post121411</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Um, wouldn't false representation/passing off require that a reasonable person could be misled?</p></blockquote><p>Probably. But I'm afraid that your free 1/2 hr consultation period has expired.</p><p>I will be happy to carry out further investigation into the relevant case law at my standard rate of $300 p/h.</p><p>Where shall I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:30:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121407#post121407</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121407#post121407</guid>
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						<p>Um, wouldn't false representation/passing off require that a reasonable person could be misled? </p><p>For instance, if I made leaflets that looked like electoral office ones and stated that the upcoing referendum had been cancelled, that would reasonably be actionable.</p><p>An obvious parody wouldn't.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:59:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121333#post121333</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121333#post121333</guid>
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						<blockquote>In every case it's down to the courts. If he's registered, they need only prove that the use is infringing on their mark. That could actually be sticky in this case, since the misuse of the mark is not in relation to enrolment of electors or the conduct of an…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:59:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121332#post121332</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121332#post121332</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>set in train a repeal of the 'commissioning rule'.</p><p>Which appears to still be in train, even if I don't quite know what it is.</p><p>I understand that your boss/hirer would then have to explicitly take the copyright in contract if they wanted it?</p></blockquote><p>The important part of the bill…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:54:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lyndon Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121315#post121315</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121315#post121315</guid>
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						<p>Further to the employee question...</p><p>At the same time Tizard announced the <a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0809/S00481.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">satire and parody exemption</a> review which has, I assume, been buried, she set in train a repeal of the 'commissioning rule'.</p><p>Which appears to <a href="http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Legislation/Bills/c/7/f/00DBHOH_BILL8777_1-Copyright-Commissioning-Rule-Amendment-Bill.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">still be in train</a>, even if I don't quite know what it is.</p><p>I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:37:05 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121294#post121294</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121294#post121294</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>So, as the public are the emplyers of Government, we own Orange Guy. Yes?.</p></blockquote><p>Yes the government (or their subsidiary, the electoral office) own Orange Guy.</p><p>No we're not the employers of the government, no we don't own Orange Guy. We're taxpayers and citizens.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:14:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121287#post121287</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121287#post121287</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Yes, tehy would have had an eaiser job of it is he was registered, but i don't think it's actually that hard to access if he isn't.</p></blockquote><p>In every case it's down to the courts. If he's registered, they need only prove that the use is infringing on their mark.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:44:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121270#post121270</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121270#post121270</guid>
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						So, as the public are the emplyers of Government, we own Orange Guy. Yes?.
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:49:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121249#post121249</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121249#post121249</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>I would have thought that, as with intellectual property in the private sector, an employee has no right to anything they create whilst working for their employer.<br />That said, is not the public the employer of government? and in so being, the owner of the property?</p></blockquote><p>Depends on the contract,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:24:36 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121234#post121234</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121234#post121234</guid>
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						<p>I would have thought that, as with intellectual property in the private sector, an employee has no right to anything they create whilst working for their employer.<br />That said, is not the public the employer of government? and in so being, the owner of the property?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:05:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121233#post121233</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121233#post121233</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Rich, yes you're right that there's some protection, but it's very hard to access. You have to go to court simply to determine that there is sufficient existing use. There's also no "defend it or lose it" requirement.</p></blockquote><p>My understanding is that the intial levels of protection or legal recourse…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:05:06 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121203#post121203</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121203#post121203</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>As an aside, my recollection is that protests at Parliament were often allowed to proceed until shortly before nightfall (including one where students occupied the top of the main steps).</p></blockquote><p>If that's the 1996 bus trip, the students made the explicit decision to stay until after nightfall to challenge this…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:28:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121197#post121197</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121197#post121197</guid>
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						<p>Rich, yes you're right that there's some protection, but it's very hard to access. You have to go to court simply to determine that there is sufficient existing use. There's also no "defend it or lose it" requirement.</p><p>Lyndon, it's hard to know how the courts will rule. In the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:14:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lyndon Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121178#post121178</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121178#post121178</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>there is a certain amount of protection available just because the mark has been used enough within a certain context to become more or less instantly recognisable</p></blockquote><p>Plus he's got the logo on his tummy.</p><p>AFAIK there's been more high profile cases round here lately against parody use over trademarks than…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:32:21 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121168#post121168</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121168#post121168</guid>
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						<p>Graeme &ndash; thanks for this. Very interesting.</p><p>Matthew:</p><blockquote><p>However, is the orange man actually trademarked? I looked at the elections website and saw nothing that answered the question. If he's not, then the issue doesn't even arise.</p></blockquote><p>Not quite correct. Even if he/she/it isn't formally registered, there is a certain…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:45:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121132#post121132</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121132#post121132</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Graeme: Would you be of a mind to provide a precis of the progress of the matter through the Courts? I note the settlement was described as 'out-of-court' and that I can find only a few references online to Court proceedings.</p></blockquote><p>The civil action for damages really never got much…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:18:05 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Phil Lyth</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121130#post121130</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121130#post121130</guid>
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						<p>Graeme:  Would you be of a mind to provide a precis of the progress of the matter through the Courts?  I note the settlement was described as 'out-of-court'  and that I can find only a few references online to Court proceedings.</p><p>As an aside,  my recollection is that protests at…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:56:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121121#post121121</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121121#post121121</guid>
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						The EEO may be taking this action because of the "defend it or lose it" provisions of the law surrounding trademarks. However, is the orange man actually trademarked? I looked at the elections website and saw nothing that answered the question. If he's not, then the issue doesn't even arise.…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:59:24 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lyndon Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121067#post121067</link>
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						<p>Thanks for that Graeme. It's fair to say I have an interest in the area of remixing political imagery, and that's not an angle that would have occurred to me.</p><p>Not as such, anyway. I did have the idea government agencies shouldn't ought to be suppressing that kind of thing.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:45:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Williams</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121063#post121063</link>
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						<blockquote>The power of the Speaker to exclude people from Parliament grounds, with the consequence that those who ignore the warning to leave can be arrested and charged, has been exercised lawfully on many occasions, but when that power was used to stifle political speech and peaceful assembly in 1997 it…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:29:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-begging-for-trouble/?p=121062#post121062</link>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:29:31 +1200</pubDate>
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