1. Your starting point Graeme re the lack of constitutional due process with the "suspension" of s92A should not surprise anyone. I think we would all be hard pressed to recall a more illegitimate…

It's traditional to be able to avoid this with an "oh-no-it-isn't" notice but I don't see provision for that.

No, there isn't. That would be the "notice and notice" model which was suggested during consultation, but the Government decided to stay with the "notice and takedown" model. This model is…

The police charge me with assault. I go to court and plead not guilty. Because I pleaded not guilty, the judge says, thank you, you are acquitted. This is not "proving your innocence".

Correct. You don't have to prove your innocence when you go to court. You are innocent until…

The law as written regards you as guilty when accused by a copyright…

That looks like guilt by accusation, without such a penalty (depending admittedly on how important the stuff on your site is).

It's traditional to be able to avoid this with an…

OK, then, what about section 92C?

I was at a talk in Wellington the other night – with members of the library community, for the most part – and at one point they all rose in unison to voice their disgust at 92C. It was taken as read that everybody…

A court, in determining whether ... an Internet service provider knows or has reason to believe that material infringes copyright…

The law as written regards you as guilty when accused by a copyright holder and you have to then prove your innocence to the ISP. This is directly counter to natural justice, as enshrined in…

Graeme, I'd be interested in your opinion on this:

However, the Act implies Parliament’s acquiescence to a “guilt by accusation” method of copyright enforcement through an avenue that avoids the stringent evidentiary requirements of the courts.

It seems rather out of step with the other statements made in the article;…

However, the Act implies Parliament’s acquiescence to a “guilt by accusation” method of copyright enforcement through an avenue that avoids the stringent evidentiary requirements of the courts.

That's from NZLawyer.

That's usually attributed to Bismarck, in a form something like "people who love the law and sausages couldn't sleep at night if they saw how they were made."

Actually there's a lot of quotes in the West Wing which come from history.

Martin Sheen's line about the poor men throwing…

It will be interesting to see what happens if she comes in off the list to replace Cullen (surely that wouldn't…

– think that (actual) ISPs and recording rights holders are the only players, even though there are many providers of network access who are not ISPs, and many kinds of…

While I understand the concern of internet users who think that their rights to free music and free films are threatened

It is interesting that Judith Tizard understands the concerns of copyright infringers but no-one else.

Unfortunately those were not the people that were expressing their concern. It was businesses,…

The Tizard thing is kind of an essay in the thinking that got us into this position.

Sure, and I've not got a lot of sympathy for the way she waded into people who were quite capable of kicking back. OTOH, can you blame her for continuing to defend the…

The Tizard thing is kind of an essay in the thinking that got us into this position.

Yeah, sadly.

"Two things you never want to see being made: laws, and sausages."

That's usually attributed to Bismarck, in a form something like "people who love the law and sausages couldn't sleep at night if they saw how they were made."

Oddly enough I was looking for a verified source the…

I understood people were buying video games instead. Although I don't get what that has to do with people booking recording space.

Tizard: One of the big recording studios told me that whereas a couple of years ago they were fully booked and when they were giving time away it was at 4am, now they are only about 60 per cent booked.

You don't think that might be due to most musicians…

Protests against section 92a that saw some websites temporarily removed and bloggers black out their photos were "childish", she says.

"It is not going to get us any further forward. While I understand the concern of internet users…

hearing it from two lawyers inclines me to believe that it is legally true)

Ha! Put 4 lawyers in a room and ask for an opinion, you'll get more than 4 responses (one will be along the lines of "How many can you afford?").

Chris Finlayson has told people that if a code of conduct can't be agreed, he will write a more detailed and prescriptive law himself.

Not doubting you, Russ, but do you have a cite for that?

(West Wing, season 1 I think)

Chris Finlayson has told people that if a code of conduct can't be agreed, he will write a more detailed and prescriptive law himself.
...
but it doesn't really answer your question about the status of the present law.

It kinda does.

I'd certainly assume that this means they'd just…

Anyway, delay it for a month and then what? What are the Government's plans if rights holders and Internet companies can't reach an agreement?

Go into urgency and repeal it through 3 readings, or just sit on it, and maybe amend it or repeal it some time in the future,…

"innocence by denial"

surely innocence by denial can only follow on from guilt by accusation? surely the best standard remains innocent until proven guilty...

but I agree with the point of Graeme's post. It seems like the Nats have just swept in and started doing whatever the hell they feel…

I've noted my concern over the strained interpretation in comments

Not just us, but RIANZ and APRA who believe it is ridiculous to have to go to court and refuse even to submit evidence of a quality that would stand up in court.

What this draft gives us is “innocence…

I suspect it's nothing more than sloppy language from a political n00b to use the word "suspended".

I considered that, but it seemed unlikely. He knows what repeal means, and knows it's the word to use if that's intended. Or amend, or change.

Anyway, delay it for a month and…

But it does not require – or even permit – guilt by mere accusation.

This may be legally true, (and hearing it from two lawyers inclines me to believe that it is legally true), but in practice I don't believe that it was necessarily going to be the case. If,…