Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: Alcohol Game Theory

Steve Barnes

Sun, 02 Sep 2012 15:12:20 +1200

I cant help thinking you have made this unnecessarily complex. it is as simple as. Do we have a split age of 20 off / 18 on or 20 across the board, if not, then the existing law applies.
This breaks down to a yes vote equates to 20 across…

Chris Waugh

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:18:24 +1200

I was actually in favour of the split age.

The former split age (we must've been at university at fairly similar times) didn't make any sense to me – 20, but 18 at certain sports clubs, with a meal or if you purchase a meal ticket (from memory $3 at…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:43:14 +1200

put up with 16, 17 and 18 year olds organising where they are getting wasted at this weekend while they are supposed to be doing the class work they’ve been set :(

But it's the weekend man! I can't believe you haven't figured out that you ram during the week.…

Yamis

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:37:11 +1200

From a selfish point of view I'm a bit disappointed because it means I have to continue to put up with 16, 17 and 18 year olds organising where they are getting wasted at this weekend while they are supposed to be doing the class work they've been set :(…

Psycho Milt

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:59:01 +1200

Looks like you called it – split age drops out immediately due to the majority favouring keeping it 18 or raising it to 20.

Can't say I'm disappointed – split age was a stupid compromise, making the purchasing age a lot more complicated for the sole purpose of allowing MPs…

Chris Waugh

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:32:14 +1200

And the drinking age stays at 18.

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:11:28 +1200

Possibly as you picked Graeme – the split option drops out early, and then the final vote keeps it at 18.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:48:29 +1200

'We've given the young people of this country a chance to have a lower age,'' NZ First leader Winston Peters said.

We've given the old people of this country the chance to stop voting for bigoted morons

Time for an upper voting age.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:38:50 +1200

aren't they just sinking to faith-based, rather than evidence-based legislating

Maybe they consider that the human right to non-discrimination by age is more important than other considerations. That's why we have a democracy rather than rule by "experts".

Paul Rowe

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:42:42 +1200

Because it’s a bad system for a vote like this. It was only a good system for the MMP referendum because it was a non-binding first referendum.

Yes, I was making a criticism rather than an observation!

Because it’s a bad system for a vote like this. It was only…

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:19:41 +1200

If MPs are ignoring the recommendation (one based upon evidence) and giving themselves a ‘gripping hand’ (so to speak) aren’t they just sinking to faith-based, rather than evidence-based legislating?

We do not require members of Parliament to adopt evidence-based policy, nor voters to cast evidence-based votes :-)

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:18:14 +1200

1. The MMP referenda offers a good system of two votes: Do you prefer a change to the age at which alcohol can be purchased? If no, status quo, if yes, there is a vote between the split age and the 20 age limit. I wonder if this system was…

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:12:59 +1200

Couldn't this also be done with three votes. Those in favour of 18 Yes, other No. Those in favour of split Yes, other No. Those in favour of 20 Yes, other No. I guess they'd also need to clearly stipulate that an MP could only vote Yes in one of…

Paul Rowe

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:10:37 +1200

I have three observations:

BenWilson

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:30:09 +1200

Curious conundrum. Another possibility is a preferential system, ranking the three options and doing an instant runoff. But Graeme's is simpler (and would probably have the same outcome), and I think his argument that the Condorcet criterion should hold makes sense on something that is basically picking a number along…

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:59:10 +1200

Brent Jackson

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:35:18 +1200

the exact process by which the first vote will take place hasn’t been publicly stated – there are, after all, only two doors for MPs to walk through when voting.

Couldn't this also be done with three votes. Those in favour of 18 Yes, other No. Those in favour of…

Lyndon Hood

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:16:50 +1200

Reminds me of the process Simon Power tossed out for the MMP referendum, before someone who knew what they were doing got ahold of it.

David Cormack

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:16:21 +1200

Man you write complicated stuff in a very clear and cogent way. Thank you!

Phil Lyth

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:15:01 +1200

This geek was curious to know what would happen if, on the first vote, two options were lowest-equal. For example 38 – 38 – 43 with two abstentions.

I understand that while not referred to in the video of Brownlee, there is agreement as to how to proceed if that…

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:33:53 +1200

So what would I propose they do?

I'd would hold three votes:
*one between 18 and 20,
*one between 18 and split age
*one between 20 and split age

If any option wins both votes it is part of (which seems likely, although isn't assured), then it is the favoured…

Public Address

Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:33:53 +1200

Discussion from blog post.