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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Legal Beagle: A four-year parliamentary term?</title>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280988#post280988</link>
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						<p><q>I don’t think it’s too bad here, but the US 2 year congressional term, combined with the horrendous influence that money has in their electoral system clearly isn’t working for them.</q></p><p>There's so much that's broken in the US system, that it's hard to pinpoint anything in particular. It's a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:44:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280955#post280955</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280955#post280955</guid>
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						<p><q>The suspending/dismantlement/deposing of ECAN received assent in April 2010, well halfway into the electoral cycle.</q><br />There was a good 18 months and a significant distraction or two between that and the election at the end of 2011. But yeah: it's an embarrassment and a disgrace.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:12:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280946#post280946</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280946#post280946</guid>
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						<p><q>Not sure, to be honest. They need to be “given a space”, definitely. But that’s not the same as “given more space”. They get an extremely long space already, by comparison to practically any other kind of work.</q></p><p>I don’t think it’s too bad here, but the US 2 year…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:27:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280938#post280938</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280938#post280938</guid>
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						<p><q>Richard Prosser</q></p><p>Silly Little Girl</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:28:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280870#post280870</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280870#post280870</guid>
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						<p>Had anyone suggested linking the 4 year term with term limits?  So for example,  a prime minister could be limited to a single 4 year term?  </p><p>Could remove a lot of distractions from cabinet ministers &ndash; and shadow ministers &ndash; if they all knew they had a better chance of…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:42:56 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jeremy Andrew</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280861#post280861</link>
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						For reasons against extending the term to four years, add to the list: 33% more Richard Prosser.
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				<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 08:55:39 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280850#post280850</link>
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						<p><q>Well, apparently a change can also be dismissed by a popular vote (i.e. referendum) coinciding with the election.</q></p><p>The referendum is not automatic, though?</p><p><q> I’m finding that more than a little creepy</q></p><p>Me too. There aren't a whole lot of times I can think of when I've gone "If only…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:09:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280848#post280848</link>
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						<p><q>But I think Representative Democracy does need to be given a space where representatives can actually be allowed to represent, rather than looking constantly to the polls and voters to see if what they are doing is 'popular'.</q><br />With ECAN suspended because it didn't deliver the results that central government…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:54:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280846#post280846</link>
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						16 times in over 200 years since the Bill Of Rights, which isn't that many. There hasn't been one since 1992. 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of the state legislatures is a big hurdle.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:40:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280845#post280845</link>
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						<p><q>And for the people to reject the change they have to reject the entire government?</q></p><p>Well, apparently a change can also be dismissed by a popular vote (i.e. referendum) coinciding with the election.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:36:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280842#post280842</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280842#post280842</guid>
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						Wow, that's a really low bar for a constitutional change. So you just have to be elected twice? And for the people to reject the change they have to reject the entire government?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 13:51:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280841#post280841</link>
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						<p><q>This was not done by referendum, so far as I can tell.</q></p><p>No referendum, but as it was a change to the constitution (or the closest thing Sweden has to a constitution &ndash; fundamental law) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Sweden" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">it required</a>: </p><p><q>To amend or to make a revision of a fundamental law, the Parliament…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 13:31:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280839#post280839</link>
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						<p><q>Sweden reverted back to 4-year terms in 1994 after having had 3-year terms since 1970.</q></p><p>This was not done by referendum, so far as I can tell. Nor, however, was the drop to 3 years. I can't find much information on the whys of that one, but it coincided with…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 12:51:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280838#post280838</link>
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						<p><q>I can’t think of many countries that have changed their term length in modern history.</q></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Sweden#Terms_of_office" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Sweden</a> reverted back to 4-year terms in 1994 after having had 3-year terms since 1970.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 12:26:42 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280837#post280837</link>
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						<p><q>I think there’s no better illustration of the perversity of short election cycles than looking at the US House of Representatives. There are many many things wrong with that body, but I think a large number of them stem directly from the permanent campaign psyche.</q></p><p>But is the problem the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 12:18:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280836#post280836</link>
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						<p><q>The US it’s so hard to make a constitutional amendment that it would never happen.</q></p><p>And yet the constitution has been amended many times.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 12:15:08 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280835#post280835</link>
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						<p>I can't think of many countries that have changed their term length in modern history.</p><p>The UK has moved to fixed terms which is effectively an increase (because governments usually called elections tactically 6-18 months before they were due). Labour and others wanted to move to a four-year fixed term,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:58:18 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280834#post280834</link>
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						<p><q>That’s the one valid argument for a longer term as far as I can see</q></p><p>Not sure, to be honest. They need to be "given a space", definitely. But that's not the same as "given more space". They get an extremely long space already, by comparison to practically any other…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:41:15 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280831#post280831</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280831#post280831</guid>
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						<p><q>Governments are elected to govern</q><br />It’s not always that simple (and the “winning” group should be wary of simplifying it that far by making claims about the size of their “mandate”, which is something of a fiction in the MMP environment anyway). <br />Sometimes they’re elected because people have stopped trusting…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:20:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280830#post280830</link>
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						<q>I agree with you Ben that any number is arbitrary. Of course it is – I don’t buy into magic number theory. But I think Representative Democracy does need to be given a space where representatives can actually be allowed to represent, rather than looking constantly to the polls and…</q>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:04:14 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James Caygill</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280827#post280827</link>
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						<p><q>Presumably you mean that is your judgment based on your experience. Or are you saying your breakdown is some kind of policy or procedurally accepted system?</q></p><p>A little from column a and a little from column b.  It's hard to tell where that line is. Certainly it's not a procedurally…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 09:34:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280826#post280826</link>
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						<p><q>You don’t have to buy it Ben – I’m simply telling you that that IS my experience in Government.</q></p><p>Presumably you mean that is your judgment based on your experience. Or are you saying your breakdown is some kind of policy or procedurally accepted system?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 01:29:36 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James Caygill</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280820#post280820</link>
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						You don't have to buy it Ben &ndash; I'm simply telling you that that IS my experience in Government.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:44:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280819#post280819</link>
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						<p><q>All of which is simply the tu quoque fallacy. It doesn’t constitute a reason against doing something now. </q></p><p>Sure, but the purpose of the reasoning is not directed at whether it should be done, it's at whether the other side can score points from it not being done. For that…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:41:06 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280818#post280818</link>
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						<p><q>All of which is simply the tu quoque fallacy. <br />It doesn’t constitute a reason against doing something now. </q></p><p>It doesn’t constitute a reason not to act… but it does point out the hypocrisy of the recently voted out suddenly saying “this is a desperate issue that you simply must attend…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:38:07 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280817#post280817</link>
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						<p>All of which is simply the <em>tu quoque</em> fallacy. <br />It doesn’t constitute a reason against doing something now.  <br />(As I’m sure you know; but I figured it should be made explicit.)</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:22:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280813#post280813</link>
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						<p><q> <em>“why didn’t Labour fix [insert pet peeve], they had nine years to do it?”</em></p><p>Was [insert pet peeve] actually that broken?</q></p><p>Complaints of this nature are usually in response to Labour telling the Government they should be doing something now.</p><p>E.g. in 2011 Labour was complaining about how, when ANZAC…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:08:22 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280812#post280812</link>
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						<p><q>“why didn’t Labour fix [insert pet peeve], they had nine years to do it?”</q></p><p>Was [insert pet peeve] actually that broken?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 17:41:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280806#post280806</link>
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						<p>It is however true that a UK government (Thatcher, weirdly) did something, albeit temporary, about property inflation (limiting tax relief on mortgage interest, and did it with a delay, such that the property market was effectively undermined).</p><p>Maybe if they'd had an election in the next year, they wouldn't have…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:59:52 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280799#post280799</link>
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						<p><q>As I have often found myself saying to people who say “why didn’t Labour fix [insert pet peeve], they had nine years to do it?”. It’s more sensible to think of it as three three year terms.</q></p><p>How many of them are actually disgruntled ex-Labour supporters, as opposed to trolls…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:49:18 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280798#post280798</link>
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						I don't buy any of that. "Pet peeve" could be fixed in any of those 9 years. Pet peeve could be an election promise, or it could be an election year "bribe", or it could be done as part of the governing budget (by which you presumably mean the one…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:13:52 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280797#post280797</link>
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						<p><q>Let's look at what that means in terms of budgets (which is what we're focussed on at the moment):<br />2000 &ndash; Implement election promises<br />2001 &ndash; Governing Budget<br />2002 &ndash; Election Year<br />2003 &ndash; Implement election promises<br />2004 &ndash; Governing Budget<br />2005 &ndash; Election Year<br />2006 &ndash; Implement election promises…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:55:29 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James Caygill</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280794#post280794</link>
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						<p><q>Even if this is true – and I’ll concede it may well be – it only affects the first term of a government. And it is rare that they don’t get another three or even six years.</q></p><p>No it doesn't. As I have often found myself saying to people who…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 08:55:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280791#post280791</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280791#post280791</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>it seems obvious to me that they are in a position on this issue where they must excuse themselves from voting on it .... so yes a referendum is the only way to make a change here</q></p><p>this deafeats the position you suggest &ndash; say the Nats campaign with a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 23:44:38 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280786#post280786</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280786#post280786</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I missed the start of this discussion &ndash; but was trying to explain it to a Chinese friend on a car trip today .... </p><p>Think about the US system &ndash; often they put a value on electing deadlocked governance structures &ndash; a Republican president and Democratic legislature because then they…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:35:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Keir Leslie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280737#post280737</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280737#post280737</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						An actual serious example: the UK Poll Tax under Thatcher and Major. Not exactly a great argument for a five year term when you get to it either.
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				<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 14:28:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280735#post280735</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280735#post280735</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						And happy Snake Year, everybody.
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				<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 13:28:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280734#post280734</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280734#post280734</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Interesting. Until yesterday I thought parliament should have 5 year terms for all the usual reasons of giving a new government time to settle in and properly develop and implement policy and programmes. But I think this thread has at least started to persuade me that shorter terms are better.…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 13:02:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Harris</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280733#post280733</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280733#post280733</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Another point that Graeme could have made is that New Zealand seems to have the weakest local government in the OECD, with no federal states either. If you look at the OECD dataset called "government at a glance" you will find NZ at the extreme end of a bar graph…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 12:17:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280732#post280732</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280732#post280732</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>If there was a referendum then give us three options being a two year, three year and four year term and then take the average outcome of that – which would more likely fall in the two to three year option.<br />That's not how the reserved section is drafted. Some…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 11:40:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280717#post280717</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280717#post280717</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>I certainly appreciate the theory. It is a good argument in favour of a longer term.</q></p><p>Longer than what, though? How long is a piece of string? There's no upper or lower bound set by such reasoning. Why not 10 years? </p><p>As a counter, a longer term also increases the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 00:05:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Keir Leslie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280715#post280715</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280715#post280715</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I realise this doesn't actually answer your question, Graeme, but too it's funny to not put here: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/31/coalition-u-turns-full-list" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">every coalition U-turn.</a>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 23:31:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280711#post280711</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280711#post280711</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>What about the justification I put forward in favour Graeme? I think they’re valid, do you?</p><p>A longer term means more time for a Cabinet to get policy working through the wider Executive Branch, and be able to assess whether policy is working as intended within the term.</q></p><p>I certainly…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 21:23:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280710#post280710</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280710#post280710</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>A four year cycle might give the (elected) Government and the Executive enough time to learn how to work together by year 3.</p><p>That is certainly my experience….</q></p><p>Even if this is true &ndash; and I'll concede it may well be &ndash; it only affects the first term of a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 21:16:16 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James Caygill</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280706#post280706</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280706#post280706</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>So the first Budget is just tweaks on what went before, maybe with some coalition deals glued on top. The second Budget is the real deal. The third Budget is just some patches; no time to learn from the effects of the previous one.</p><p>A four year cycle might give…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 19:52:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James Caygill</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280705#post280705</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280705#post280705</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Fair enough &ndash; re: people should vote for it not parliament (although that's a value judgement, not the law).</p><p>What about the justification I put forward in favour Graeme? I think they're valid, do you?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 19:50:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280704#post280704</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280704#post280704</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Interesting that most of this discussion has focussed on civil rights etc, laws that can be voted through as fast as they can be written. But this: </p><p><q>the main impact is on the Executive.</q></p><p>The government Budget is set only once a year. It's got huge momentum: months to set…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 19:49:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>fury12</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280699#post280699</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280699#post280699</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I've been reading the 'Historical Background of Chartism'. </p><p>'The electoral system in the early nineteenth century was radically different from the parliamentary democracy we have today. The system was not representative of the population in terms of wealth or region, and elections were open to corruption. Before 1832, just ten…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 17:15:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280697#post280697</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280697#post280697</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>A lot of people complain about local government, village in particular, being dominated by petty, domineering, uneducated, uncultured bullies. You'll also find that abuses of the one child policy, forced abortions and sterilisations, infanticide, etc, tend to happen in smaller towns rather than the major cities.</p><p><q>with little attempting to…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:27:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Tim Michie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280696#post280696</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280696#post280696</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						For the question is what is the difference in political parties and politicians behaviour and results were it a four year term instead of three and what prevents them from doing so now under the current system.  I don't see any.If they wanted to propose changes taking longer then three…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:15:55 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280692#post280692</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280692#post280692</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Yet we can look at the assumptions they make, and draw entirely proper conclusions based on our different values. Of course the analogies will be imperfect, but that doesn’t mean they will be entirely unhelpful.</q></p><p>I'm not saying it's not a debate worth having, or that the debate doesn't help.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:44:41 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Keir Leslie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280689#post280689</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280689#post280689</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I think the idea that politicians don't like campaigning is a bit of a generalisation. Some really love it, some hate it. These days we're getting close to a permanent campaign, in many ways. I am unsure what difference a campaign that lasts four years as opposed to one that…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:12:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280686#post280686</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280686#post280686</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>who will swear blind that the Chinese government is the wisest and best form of government ever invented,</q></p><p>Well, the transition to every administration serving two 5-year terms then retiring (albeit a very active retirement in the case of Jiang Zemin) has been a huge improvement over the old rule…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:58:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280683#post280683</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280683#post280683</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<q>I know several Chinese people, for instance, who will swear blind that the Chinese government is the wisest and best form of government ever invented, and they can pile up endless evidence to that effect. Since they don’t give a flying fuck about human rights, they don’t find those counterarguments…</q>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:41:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280682#post280682</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280682#post280682</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<q>’d be interested to know your view Graeme if Parliament altered the Constitution Act with a 75% majority, which they are legally entitled to do , and inserted a four year term, but put that change in term off for a number of years in the future, thus removing any…</q>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:37:06 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280681#post280681</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280681#post280681</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Per <a href="http://www.elections.org.nz/files/6_the_term_of_parliament.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this report</a> the term has been increased once by parliament (in 1934, to four years, and repealed by the next parliament). It's also been extended three times on a one-off basis. There have been two referenda since these became required to change the term, and in both cases the…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:34:52 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280679#post280679</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280679#post280679</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>No it doesn’t. There has been one two-term government in the history of New Zealand.</q></p><p>True, indeed. That's even worse. Amend my statement to "losing here generally means 9 years of the other crowd, using both median and mode as your measure of central tendency. If you prefer means, it's…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:12:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James Caygill</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280678#post280678</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280678#post280678</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I’ll have a go Graeme, since I’m a supporter of four years.</p><p>I think first off it’s important to distinguish between the Executive and Parliament. Yes, we’re talking about Parliamentary elections but I think the main impact is on the Executive. </p><p>A longer term means more time for a Cabinet…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:10:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280673#post280673</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280673#post280673</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>When some of the more controversial pieces of legislation passed in New Zealand in recent times; Search &amp; Surveillance, Electoral Finance etc, have been of the knee-jerk variety. Then a four year term will make no difference.</q></p><p>Search and Surveillance was not knee-jerk. It was the result of a many year-long…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:35:55 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280672#post280672</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280672#post280672</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>If there was a referendum then give us three options being a two year, three year and four year term and then take the average outcome of that – which would more likely fall in the two to three year option.</q></p><p>That's not how the reserved section is drafted. Some…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:34:33 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280671#post280671</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280671#post280671</guid>
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						<p><q>What is your/the measure of better government?</q></p><p>Whatever someone who want to claim that some other country is better governed than we are, or that some country has improved its government by increasing its term..</p><p>I'm not the one claiming a four-year term will lead to better government. If someone…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:31:34 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280670#post280670</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280670#post280670</guid>
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						<p><q> losing power here generally means 6 years of the other crowd</q></p><p>No it doesn't. There has  been one two-term government in the history of New Zealand.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:29:14 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Chuck Bird</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280669#post280669</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280669#post280669</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Excellent article Graeme.  I could even be persuaded to go for five years if the change was done democratically and there was proper public consultation, a referendum and some sort of trade off like a binding referendum on conscience issues that were not in the major party's manifesto.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:17:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280667#post280667</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280667#post280667</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I have a question for wonks: How many times has a change in the length of term has been offered to a populace, and they have opted for a longer one? And vice versa? Also, similar question, how many times has it been changed by legislature without recourse to referendum,…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:04:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280665#post280665</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280665#post280665</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I don't think it's about the salary. I'd say it's that politicians don't actually like campaigning, with a few exceptions. It's hard work, and it's not the kind of work they like. They want to me making decisions, flexing their considerable muscles, and longer terms give them more of that.…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:54:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280664#post280664</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280664#post280664</guid>
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						<p><q>better governed, on average.</q></p><p>What is your/the measure of better government?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:47:36 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kevin Welsh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280663#post280663</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280663#post280663</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I don't really care about the expenses incurred for MP's as that is small potatoes when compared to the corporate welfare dished out each year at taxpayers expense.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:47:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280662#post280662</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280662#post280662</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I've worked out why Shearer and the other timeservers want it though. It'll mean that each Labour leader will get four years salary rather three before they lose an election and have to resign.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:39:41 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280661#post280661</link>
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						<p><q>Does someone have the evidence to show that UK, France, South Africa, Italy and Germany are better governed than NZ?</q></p><p>Consider the mess the world is largely from lack of regulation of financial markets and the considerable clout of corporations and govt over private citizens &ndash;  has a longer parliamentary…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:37:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kevin Welsh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280659#post280659</link>
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						<p>When some of the more controversial pieces of legislation passed in New Zealand in recent times; Search &amp; Surveillance, Electoral Finance etc, have been of the knee-jerk variety. Then a four year term will make no difference.</p><p>Of more concern to me is the abuse of Parliamentary process in the rushing…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:28:57 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280658#post280658</link>
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						I really don't see how this discussion can end up evidence-based. What does "better governed" actually mean? This is hardly a checklist kind of thing, there is no boilerplate for the best governmental system, and even less of one to decide if any particular place has been well governed, or…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:22:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280649#post280649</link>
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						Britain had three year maximum parliaments from 1641 to 1716 and then a seven year maximum until 1911 (although the 1910 parliament was prolonged until 1918 because of WW1). In the mid-19th century, the Chartists advocated for annual general elections.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:51:53 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280648#post280648</link>
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						<p><q>But surely it's not the point, surely the point is will WE be better governed comparable to how we are now? </q></p><p>It is. But finding evidence to show that one way or the other will be difficult. I think it should be the case that if countries are, on average,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:29:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>izogi</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280647#post280647</link>
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						Does anyone happen to know why New Zealand presently has a three year term?  Is it something that was inherited from Great Britain in the beginning, or was there a conscious decision to set it to three years from some other reason?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:22:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Barnard</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280643#post280643</link>
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						<p>Couldn't answer for Germany, but in terms of the UK I think I can safely answer, no they're not better governed. Probably goes for the others as well.</p><p>But surely it's not the point, surely the point is will WE be better governed comparable to how we are now? </p><p>That…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:04:35 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280640#post280640</link>
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						<p>I'd agree. The only thing that could be said for parliament forcing four year terms on an unwilling populace is that it would increase levels of discontent with established politicians.</p><p>Interestingly, the United States has no constitutional provision to defer elections, and held presidential elections in 1944 during WW2 and…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:52:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280638#post280638</link>
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						I suspect part of the appeal for some members of the voting public (and particularly non-voting public) for longer terms is wanting to have politicians in your face less often asking for your vote, rather than any strong feeling that it will make things better.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:43:14 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Tim Michie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280633#post280633</link>
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						Political parties choose to offer policy proposals at their own schedule.  Nothing prevents a potential government from initiating a legislating process longer than the three year term.  I'd argue it would benefit the voters to know the parties direction beyond the present term.  Just as it has taken time for…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:23:29 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Brent Jackson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280632#post280632</link>
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						Well put.  I concur.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:19:30 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280631#post280631</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280631#post280631</guid>
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						<p>Will someone take up the cudgel?</p><p>Does someone have the evidence to show that UK, France, South Africa, Italy and Germany are better governed than NZ?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:12:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280630#post280630</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-a-four-year-parliamentary-term/?p=280630#post280630</guid>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:12:23 +1300</pubDate>
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