Heh – hope that worked, I thought it was an interesting article anyway .........

Just saying something, as James does, does not make it true.

When the 'rough-spoken' (read idefensibly inarticulate) Bush is your role model, wilful ignorance is the order of the day. Add Karl Rove to gallery of role models, and active disinformation becomes a virtue.

but the picture of a smiling Rumsfield shaking hands with Saddam is pretty damning

Agreed, I'm not arguing the US comes out of this looking like an angel. Chirac considered Saddam a personal friend and was indeed the very man who sold Saddam a nuclear reactor (for peaceful purposes of…

Also, it is well known that the US were big supporters of the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, who later…

Apparently, like me, now Time Magazine is spouting Republican talking points.

Apparently, that is, until you read the piece. Even within its pitched-to-the-concentration-span-of-a-mosquito-with-alzheimers Time-Warner formulaic style, there's precious little endorsement of any 'talking point', Republican or otherwise, to be found in your linked article. More a dawning plague-on-both-your-houses sullenness from…

Was there any comparison between the Hussein regime's activities in Abu Ghraib and the US Army's? No, but Kennedy's ridiculous and offensive remark about Abu Ghraib opening under new ownership was typical of the hyperbole and overreaction on…

Anyone with any basic training in marketing knows that "repition sells". If you play an ad repeatedly it get into peoples subconscious and they can't help but think 'Coke is the real thing', 'everyone…

"Everyone hates Congress" – Time Magazine

Apparently, like me, now Time Magazine is spouting Republican talking points. Must be contagious I guess.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1640263,00.html

I forget who it was who said it, but “the constitution is not a suicide pact”. A very sensible sentiment that covers issues like rendition and robust interrogation quite well.

I watched Road to Guantanamo last night. You're talking out a hole in your head James. Bush's (largely successful so…

I…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10450086

As far as the role of Iraq in the London and Glasgow bombings, the guy who was on fire at Glasgow was chanting "Allah, Allah!!"…

Uzbekistan ... isn't that the place where they boil people alive as a form of torture? Can't be.

and a delivery point for processing for some of those rendition flights authorised by Human Right's protectin' GWB

There are of course a few that do involve oil.... but Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and, oh, Saudia Arabia are playing the oil-game with the Texans and have "protection".

Uzbekistan ... isn't that the place where they boil people alive as a form of torture? Can't be.

Indeed, and there goes James' most recent theory "it had nothing to do with US Foreign Policy" out the window

While still believing jihadism is not entirely to do with foreign policy, yep, I reckon. The Iraq angle emerging around this thing is pretty striking.

Whether or not the crowd…

Some people would say things have gotten worse as a result of the occupation.

Indeed, and there goes James' most recent theory "it had nothing to do with US Foreign Policy" out the window

MI5 and MI6 were yesterday investigating the role of al-Qaida cells in Iraq as they…

The US backed Saddam because he was at war with Iran. The Saudi's had been telling the US that they wanted to get the US airbases out of Saudi Arabia, so they needed somewhere new to go. When Saddam tried to annex Kuwait (for drilling diagonally under…

I presume you are talking about Saddam as the others in the list don't fit and are all examples of US power being used for good.

And the Taliban. From wikipedia

What actually marks the beginning of the Taliban is when, in the late 1970s, the CIA and the ISI…

Who is worse, the US that aided Saddam in a minor way and got rid of him or those countries that really did enable his regime and didn't want to see him go?

If supplying of Anthrax, botulism, the supply of Hughes helicopters that were used to deliver such, and…

Go through that list again and highlight the ones that the US got rid of, after helping put them in their positions of power/selling them chemical and conventional weapons/etc.

I presume you are talking about Saddam as the others in the list don't fit and are all examples of US…

He spoke to the media, even against direct orders... He explained that he did so because there was "definitely a cover-up" underway by the Army.

By the way, James, was that what you meant by:

the Army was on top of it anyway

If Americans are required to accept that Libby could not be convicted for his alleged actual crimes (ie in law he's innocent), then they also have to accept that he was properly convicted and sentenced for his other crimes.

What does this sentence mean? If you mean to say…

Honestly Simon, with a load of bollocks, how is it possible for someone to believe such utter crap?

James, if only the rest of us were able to live in the simplistic bubble you inhabit then the world would be a happier place. Sadly we don't. I'm not even going…

At least (republican candidate) never drowned anyone.

Most of it was pretty juvenile stuff which looked like a Palmerston North Boys High School prefect's initiation ceremony, more than anything else.

Oh sure – only with guns and attack dogs. How very droll.

since the world demands that the US fixes the world’s problems then maybe the international community should come up with some alternatives if it dislikes the US so much.t

Tell that to the non-US forces currently serving in Afghanistan.
Or to the 1089 Chinese UN peacekeepers currently deployed in Africa:…

On the other hand the US has got rid of Milosevic, the Taliban, Saddam, keeps North Korea at bay, has recently pressured the Sudan govt to allow an increased UN force in Darfur.

Umm. Go through that list again and highlight the ones that the US got rid of, after…

There is an argument at least, that US actions, generally but not exclusively outside the US, have had a worse impact on global human rights than Castro could ever dream of.

On the other hand the US has got rid of Milosevic, the Taliban, Saddam, keeps North Korea at bay,…

Honestly Simon, with a load of bollocks, how is it possible for someone to believe such utter crap?

Well, maybe you can explain how it's possible for someone to believe such utter crap as:

ANSWER et al get their knickers all in a bunch about a few meatheads on the…

Honestly Simon, with a load of bollocks, how is it possible for someone to believe such utter crap?

Are Cubans free to speak their minds, form political parties, leave Cuba, abuse the…

That, and claim to be Canadian, eh?

I would have thought all the analysis needed would be "he was sentenced in a competent court after being found guilty in a trial". It's a lot more due process than Bush has given a lot of guys who have copped…

Although President Bush said he commuted I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's 30-month prison sentence for perjury and obstruction of justice because it was "severe" and "excessive," several former prosecutors and sentencing law experts told ABC News that Libby's sentence was not unusually harsh.…

However the President doesn't see it this way...which is not surprising..his blatant and arrogant disregard for the rule of law, both domestic and international, is a hallmark of his tenure.

In this instance, I think you've got the wrong side of the stick Simon. The constitution, which is the highest…

Glad to be galling you. Nasty job, someone has to do it.
The US holds itself out to be special and should be judged as such. But to endlessly excoriate the US while ignoring much worse travesties of numerous other countries is selective, inconsistent and hyprocritical. Sorry, it just is.

…

Commuting Prison Term Is Implicit Critique of Sentencing Standards

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/powell-calls-un-speech-a-blot-on-his/20050908231709990004

I do understand your point of view, but again, we all know about these other situations you talk of, but if we were going to be fair to every major ill caused in the world we would never stop talking here. So we focus on things we know more…

RB,
Rasmussen has those self identifying as Repubs at 32% and the Dems at 36%.

Which isn't the same thing as either voting intentions or approval ratings.

You can't be happy with a group of people who say they are going to be the most ethical Congress in history and…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html

Well, its Independence Day tomorrow, so irony of ironies, I will wish you all, unfavorably disposed to the US as most of you…

Americans are pissed wth both parties at the moment, especially after the way the White House and leaders of both parties in Congress constructed a bill behind closed doors and tried to…

In a free society people are allowed to make accusations (except libel etc.) and people are allowed to rebut them, by attacking the credibility of the accuser if appropriate.

What people are not allowed to do in a free society is lie under oath and deliberately obstruct federal investigations. If…

And the dreaded immigration bill is a controversy invented by conservatives so they didn't have to talk about Iraq any more.

Oh, come on Russell... I know it falls below the radar somewhat, but Bush has been catching shit for being, well, being a wee bit too liberal when it…

The US should be held to a high standard, but that doesn't mean that it is okay to glibbly ignore the many other horrendous acts of other countries, governments or groups around the world.

Kind of turns the argument into a pissing down the wall contest.

I'm of two minds over this. I'm no friend of the Bush administration at all but I agree with the earlier statement that the use of perjury in the US system to pursue alleged perpetrators of associated crimes when no route to a conviction can be found in other…

My…

And I absolutely agree with you, Bush really sucks big time..and Congress too, on both sides. That's actually what quite a few of us having been saying for quite some time.

Did you apply the same burden of proof…

We're not? You mean I've wasted all this f@#$ing time trying to groom you all? Who's going to roast my weiner by the campfire now??

You completely missed the point I'd made (some two hours after David's original post, and weeks into…

Would you rather take a bullet for Bush or from Cheney?

Point though – Al Capone got done for taxes.

The wood and the trees argument related to the fact that discounting Libby's sentence because he wasn't charged with an espionage crime is missing the story. You think that this is a relevant fact. I think its not. You…

Consider it suggested. With maybe some sort of judicial body allowed to make pardons instead.…

Let me just say something about leaks in Washington. There are too many leaks of classified information in Washington. There's leaks at the executive branch; there's leaks in the legislative branch. There's just too many leaks. And if there is a leak out…

Machiavelli's Prince was supposed to be smart.

There are also regular nods in Machiavelli, as I remember it, to all of this cynical action being in the interests of the state (as Machy saw it anyway) rather than the individual.

Where are racists & sexists going to go?
It’s bound to draw on some of the Democratic base regardless of politics.

Do we need to mention the war – the American Civil War – Republicans freed the slaves along with other harsh economic…

And since I'm making wild predictions/speculations: Clinton/Obama in 2008 for Prez/Vice-Prez.

nah, it expands the bigotry base too much. The Democrats want the White House too much to risk it all that much in a country where 52% still buy creation

Scarily, the guy who figured this out thought of it two weeks ago.

With Judge Reggie Walton's ruling that Scooter Libby must begin serving his prison sentence before the appeal of his convictions has run its course, the…

And since I'm making wild predictions/speculations: Clinton/Obama in 2008 for Prez/Vice-Prez.

I think it was Chris Rock who said there would never be a black vice-pres, cause there'd be too many people out there looking to make themselves a jailhouse hero by turning him into the first black president -…

That said, it is US law and the Bush's complete disregard for that and the processes in the pursuit of that (and international) law on almost every level is a horrifying trademark of his regime to date. This is merely indicative of an ongoing pattern.

And (bwaha), Alastair…

The commutation, rather than being some canny half-measure some are calling it, is actually worse than a pardon. The President's saying "Fine, fine, I agree a jury of his peers found him guilty of multiple counts of perjury and obstruction of justice, but I don't think…

Didn't some soldiers executed in WW1 get a posthumous pardon

Yes. But largely because they were considered innocent.

And to be fair to Bush – this sentence was quite harsh ... and he didn't pardon.

No that's true, he didn't pardon. He reprieved, which is also one of the powers given to him in the constitution in the same sentence.

I can understand pardons in some certain limited…

Nothing. I've long felt [since the Dems took over the Senate (almost) & Congress] that Bushco would be left in the position of doing as they bloody well pleased because they know they've got no chance of getting back…

Didn't some soldiers executed in WW1 get a posthumous pardon – or was that…

Bravo.

There seem to be a lot of Americans who speak of The President (whoever it may be at the time) in the same awed, reverent tones as many of us speak of God/Jesus/Allah/The Pope...... and seem to think that elevation…

And how many has he had executed?

President Bush? One or Two. There have been three federal executions (and no military ones) since 1978 (when the federal death penalty was reinstated) – the first was under Clinton, and Bush has had at least one.

And to be fair to Bush…

"Yes but that was long ago brushed under the carpet and Libby was not convicted of that"

Good lord... some people really cannot see the wood for the trees... youalmost appear to be quoting George Bush on that talking point. Lets have the full BS explanation in full.…

http://www.scoopit.co.nz/story.php?title=Public-Address-Discussion-Lewis-Libby-Pardoned-OMG

Does anyone know one of the 27% who still support him and is willing to admit it openly?

where's James B when you need him

Does anyone remember Bush saying he would hold an investigation into who leaked Plame's name and then take action? Is a clip of this going…

I find the second response in this thread simply astonishing. How can anyone continue to cry Clinton in the face of this abomination!

Quite easily ... the point is that the executive power to pardon is so obviously open to partisan (ab)use. This holds regardless of whether…

I just read the news article on stuff relating to this. I couldn't have been less surprised by the news that Bush got Libby off. The odds on that happening were pretty short.

As Jon Stewart said in his commentary to the Libby sentence a few weeks ago, "some people…

COMING now to the other qualities mentioned above, I say that every prince ought to desire to be considered clement and not cruel. Nevertheless he ought to take care not to misuse this clemency.

Nevertheless he ought to be slow to believe and to act, nor should he himself…

William Pitt says enough already impeach Cheney. & Bush I say *

This is completely intolerable. Does anyone remember Bush saying he would hold an investigation into who leaked Plame's name and then take action? Is a clip of this going to be shown on the news tonight as…

I'm just surprised that it took him longer than 30 seconds to do it.

Does anyone know one of the 27% who still support him and is willing to admit it openly?

Yes. My husband and I are related to several of them. Lovely people – just not particularly politically astute, very religious, and really, really frightened by the terr'rists. Oh, and they all…

Dubbya is THE PRINCE in every respect of that great cynic Machiavelli

Hadly. Machiavelli's Prince was supposed to be smart.

- Secondly, second-term presidents have very little accountability and can do anything they like as they will never need to be reelected.

Yes, but they typically have a party machine that wants to win the midterms and the next Presidential. Those guys are not without influence.

I think Simon Grigg…

While driving back from the speech later that day, Bush mentions Karla Faye Tucker, a double murderer who was executed in Texas last year. In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, Bianca Jagger and a number…

Maybe you should run a competition to find one.

All the Americans I know disown him when the introduce themselves, often before giving their own name (it may just be the my…

– Firstly, I think the US system of grand juries, where someone can be hauled up in front of a prosecutor, forced to testify and jailed if they either refuse or lie, is an affront to human rights. It's a 17th century artefact that most other democracies abolished…

And how many has he had executed?

that lovely old Orange Juice song "The Day We Went Down To Texas" just came to mind.

Oh and Saddam.......

I like that.

Do they have no shame?

I wouldn't be surprised if GWB secretly pays paris hilton to stay in the news

The result was: GWB…

What's the point in being President if you can't get your mates off? More accurately, the president has the power to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#Pardons_and_clemency_in_the_United_States|"grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the…