I work in the social field and my initial reaction to boot camps was they don't work for anyone except the people running them – they…

Yes, that's very true. But if your economy is heavily biased toward one particular form of industry you're in deep trouble if something strikes that industry. NZ's a foot-and-mouth infection away from being in very, very deep shit economically.

Or a declaration of carbon trade war by the G8.

Cue…

It's all very well to play it safe, but you won't tend to get the big rewards…

I don't think it's foolish. Risky maybe.

When did "risky" become "foolish" in the CDO/CLO fiasco? They're very closely linked, and it's often only in hindsight that one sees that what appeared to be "risky" was, actually, "really bloody stupid." At the level of macroeconomic direction involved in running a…

But if your economy is heavily biased toward one particular form of industry you're in deep trouble if something strikes that industry.

Conversely you do quite well if that doesn't happen.

It's very foolish to rely on good luck to protect something as important as the national economy. So far,…

You don't see the software, creative or hi-tech industries having to mount glossy tv campaigns just to get young people to consider working in them, either.

That's mostly because those industries don't have the PR advisers that agriculture does. It's not that they're attractive career choices, it's purely because they're…

But if your economy is heavily biased toward one particular form of industry you're in deep trouble if something strikes that industry.

Conversely you do quite well if that doesn't happen. I wouldn't turn away the next Microsoft springing up here just because of the risk of our economy taking…

Everyone has ways to lose money.

Yes, that's very true. But if your economy is heavily biased toward one particular form of industry you're in deep trouble if something strikes that industry. NZ's a foot-and-mouth infection away from being in very, very deep shit economically.

The current economic crisis is…

I've never heard of a software/pharma company downgrading earnings forecasts because there wasn't enough rain in the quarter, or whatever.

Electronic Arts reported a one billion dollar loss over the last year though. Everyone has ways to lose money.

But that's the problem with primary production. I've never heard of a software/pharma company downgrading earnings forecasts because there wasn't enough rain in the quarter, or whatever.

I'm sure the government have plans for R&D – just not a tax credit based approach. I guess we'll see when the Budget arrives.

Your faith is touching. They're already hinting strongly that nearly everything is going to be on a static, or dropping, budget for the coming year. Education, Health…

The answer's right there: you only need 23 people to select that answer, for whatever random reason, possibly linked to limited literacy skills. ("Oh. Minister of Education? Education is good. So, Minister of Education is good." Baaaa.)
More seriously: a poll that small, of self-selecting respondents, can only produce meaningless…

performance to date of Anne Tolley as Minister of Education?
Very Good (31.0%, 23 Votes)
BASED ON WHAT????

The answer's right there: you only need 23 people to select that answer, for whatever random reason, possibly linked to limited literacy skills. ("Oh. Minister of Education? Education is good. So, Minister of…

to export our expertise in farming, not the raw products (which is really what I was referring to hurriedly above). So long as we own an ongoing share of the result, not just sell our knowledge for a few one-off baubles. Like kiwifruit.

That way will still not earn us…

to export our expertise in farming, not the raw products (which is really what I was referring to hurriedly above). So long as we own an ongoing share of the result, not just sell our knowledge for a few one-off baubles. Like kiwifruit.

That way will still not earn us…

How do you rate the performance to date of Anne Tolley as Minister of Education?

Very Good (31.0%, 23 Votes)
Good (28.0%, 21 Votes)
Average (19.0%, 14 Votes)
Very Poor (14.0%, 10 Votes)
Poor (8.0%, 6 Votes)
Total Voters: 74

I would like to know how on earth the majority…

Like kiwifruit.

So you're thinking more like Zespri?

And there is a tension there between absolute productivity and relative sectoral productivity globally. If we can operate our dairy and meat industries as a global leader, there is benefit in that over being just an average software producer.

However, if we make that choice as a country then we…

That means software, creative, hi-tech and professional services industries, not dairy and meat. There are a few things that help with that – oh, like R&D credits.

A good chunk of productivity comes with experience, learning and then shifting to a higher gear once you have the current level "inate" in…

You say going from 1.1% to 1.57% of GDP is "not very much"

I say it's increased more than 40%.

That seems quite a rise to me?

That means software, creative, hi-tech and professional services industries, not dairy and meat. There are a few things that help with that – oh, like R&D credits.

Let 'nerds' drive us all into future

Out of curiosity, I went and looked for figures on NZ's current R&D spend as a percentage of…

Firstly, I don't know if you noticed but I ain't making this a 'Labour bad/National good' argument. Partisan face-pulling tends to make things less rather than more clear, as well as being a bit of a bore.

Yes, I didn't phrase it terribly well. It was more a general observation…

Ironic for the supposed party of business to be stuffing that up and reinforcing the delusion that our future is just more farming. There's a reason our streams are polluted, and there's only so many of them you can hide the externalities in. Call that ambition?

And with the current…

Perhaps we should be happy that even the innumerate and illiterate are engaged in work and paying taxes. Perhaps merely maximising productivity is bad.

Paradoxically, nations like France have high productivity rates as well as high unemployment, by way of bolshie workers being replaced with robots.

The States & other New…

In NZ, expansion of production in any sector except the purely intellectural hits a huge barrier called "the ocean" which tends to limit ambition, compared to the possibilities afforded by a continental location.

Hence the need to be encouraging more businesses who don't sell atoms to the rest of the…

If there is any change there tends to be a lag before it shows up in any statitistics

That at least makes intuitive sense to me. You put in a bunch of new plant, and it takes time to install it, to train people to use it, to change over…

Firstly, I don't know if you noticed but I ain't making this a 'Labour bad/National good' argument. Partisan face-pulling tends to make things less rather than more clear, as well as being a bit of a bore.

Secondly: productivity. If there is any change there tends…

Rob, I think the improvement in business investment was from a very low base

Oh, very true. But don't forget I was responding to Matthew's comment that businesses regard capital expenditure as a dirty word. I was simply saying may have been true 15-20 years ago but not so more…

Yeah, but the MPS figures I was referring to usually strip out the computer investment from their business investment stats.

Never asked them why, and perhaps I should have. But it always struck me as an implicit vote of no confidence in the productivity benefits of IT.

Interesting. I wonder…

Which was right around the time that businesses started going through the upgrade process to get their offices running XP. That frequently involved buying new computers...

Yeah, but the MPS figures I was referring to usually strip out the computer investment from their business investment stats.

Never asked them why,…

However, by the time XP came out everyone was using IT and there was now a large market that was ready (and easily convinced) to upgrade. Hence, bubble.

Not many work places will have gone out and bought new machines for all their staff in one year. Most will have…

David Hayward... Mr Hayward...

That's Hay*wood* .

David Hay*ward* is, in fact, the infamous Auckland conceptual artist currently reconfiguring the conciousnesses of the inhabitants of London and surrounding areas.

From when we were discussing educational stats here last year, I think you are right about the skew in our recent school-leaver achievement levels

Actually, I was wrong. Here's my post from our original discussion about Tolley rushing through "standards" testing – including links to the international PISA results.

Only…

Hate to break it to you, but upgrading your computers so that you can maintain electronic communication with the rest of society isn't an investment in the capital means of production.

So much of the cost of modern business life probably isn't productive. Way back in the day, a typical…

pproximately 50 percent of the adult New Zealand population still have low numeracy and (document) literacy scores.

50% below average shock horror!

From when we were discussing educational stats here last year, I think you are right about the skew in our recent…

I can point you to numerous monetary policy statements from the Reserve Bank over the middle of the decade which noted the comparativley high level of business investment – around 20% above trend in '04-05.

Which was right around the time that businesses started going through the upgrade process to…

And it would still circumvent the politically suicidal capital gains tax.

It's a shame that Labour couldn't have sucked it up, accepted its impending doom, and passed a capital gains tax in its dying days. That would've been the greatest legacy Cullen could've left us. Instead we're stuck with an…

And I suspect our biggest economic advantage is:
1. Extremely low levels of corruption.
2. A highly literate and numerate workforce.

Well, Id agree with you on the first: On the second, no. This is from the Tetiary Education Commission a couple of years back:

__ The…

I'm not sure this isn't a bit misunderstood, even by those in the know. People mostly look at productivity as like-for-like, whether an F&P plant here makes more washing machines than one in China. But in fact it's as much about what people are doing as how they are doing it.…

if petrol were as cheap here as it is in the US, and we had the effective subsidy on small truck chassis vehicles that the original SUVs had, and our roads were as wide as US suburban roads and freeways, I think we'd love SUVs just as much

Yes! I…

I'm unaware of any other country where it's de riguer for there to be at least a 1:1 ratio of cup holders to seats in even the largest vehicles.

Heh. If only there were less cupholders, the obesity epidemic would be solved!

Read the article I linked with "enormous, wallowing, dangerous beasts" and you'll get it. I consider it a completely valid point, but YMMV.

I read the article. It doesn't argue that Americans like SUVs because they eat and drink all the time, though; it argues that there is a 'reptilian'…

NZ's low productivity

I'm not sure this isn't a bit misunderstood, even by those in the know. People mostly look at productivity as like-for-like, whether an F&P plant here makes more washing machines than one in China. But in fact it's as much about what people are doing as how they…

I agree with Matthew. I've seen it over and over again. It is the dark obverse of our can-do, jack-of-all-trades, no 8 wire culture – we disrespect specialists, skimp on maintenance, and jury rig cheap solutions that break a lot.

As a former engineer, I can only…

People do want them. Dopey US consumers

That's one country of 300mln, and a lot of them want a normal, efficient car these days. The export market to the other 600mln people in the developed world is pretty limited, and to India and China it's non-existent.

I'm also not quite sure why the eating and drinking thing is at all relevant to your point

Read the article I linked with "enormous, wallowing, dangerous beasts" and you'll get it. I consider it a completely valid point, but YMMV. I have no idea if it applies here, assisted…

Dopey US consumers – with insecurity complexes and an inability to go more than 30 seconds without eating/drinking –

I stand corrected: you didn't call them dumb and insecure. You called them *dopey* and insecure. I'm also not quite sure why the eating and drinking thing is at all relevant…

When it comes to saving money, capitalism typically finds a way.

It does. And that way is often reducing what you pay people to work. Machines require upfront investment, and continued maintenance, and cost more and more as they get older, so lobbying for decreased labour regulation and shopping around…

Maybe, maybe not.

Basically, I don't see the point of calling 300 million people dumb and insecure as the key thrust of your argument. It's unnecessarily reductive.

When it comes to saving money, capitalism typically finds a way.

Yes, it surely does. But there's a serious aversion within NZ business to the concept of "You've got to spend money to make money." This even extends to getting professional advice, where businesses will avoid it as long as…

That's because they're a huge market, not because they're inherently any dumber or more insecure than we are.

Maybe, maybe not. I do note that our top-selling vehicles are all cars, not SUVs/trucks. It was huge news in the US that when Civics, Camrys and Corollas outsold the F-series pickup last…

I'd be amazed to find out that there was no automation solution that could've allowed them to keep production here, even if it meant laying off some employees.

I don't know anything about making dishwashers, but I think if it could have been done cheaper by a machine, F&P would have…

Similarly, we have very little high-tech production here.…

But if the American consumer had never desired such a ridiculous vehicle they'd never have been imported here.

That's because they're a huge market, not because they're inherently any dumber or more insecure than we are.

I don't think New Zealanders would win any 'smart consumer' prizes on this score either, frankly.

No, probably not. But if the American consumer had never desired such a ridiculous vehicle they'd never have been imported here. We don't get focus-grouped with a view to creating entirely new classes of…

Dopey US consumers – with insecurity complexes and an inability to go more than 30 seconds without eating/drinking – that have been pandered to by genius marketing and design groups desire those enormous, wallowing, dangerous beasts.

I don't think New Zealanders would win any 'smart consumer' prizes on this score…

That's nonsense. It was true 15-20 years ago but has not been the case for some time.

There has in fact been a surge in capital investment since about 2002. (Its dropped off recently, for obvious reasons) We've had a tight labour…

But that requires an investment in capital means of production, which in this country is almost a dirty phrase – it's up there with "tax increases" and "sickness beneficiaries"

That's nonsense. It was true 15-20 years ago but has not been the case for some time.

There has in fact…

Working longer is not the path to increased productivity, though. Any politician who tries to argue otherwise should be ignored out-of-hand as having not the slightest fucking idea what they're discussing.

Once again, encouraging people to keep up with the Joneses and buying the latest Range Rover or lifestyle…

Working longer is not the path to increased productivity, though. Any politician who tries to argue otherwise should be ignored out-of-hand as having not the slightest fucking idea what they're discussing.

Thanks Matthew, I was beginning to wonder why I wasn't yet impressed with any thing, any one, any place,…

The US makes plenty of useful stuff, so why waste resources making shite cars nobody wants?

That's the problem. People do want them. Dopey US consumers – with insecurity complexes and an inability to go more than 30 seconds without eating/drinking – that have been pandered to by genius marketing…

Like I said, I have been unable to find empirical real-world evidence of cutting upper marginal income tax rates magically delivering productivity (which is what we need for growth in this country). The "rational" argument is along the lines of "people will work more cause they get to keep more…

Me, I'm trying to come to terms to the fact that it's being rescued by FIAT. That's like being told how to keep on the straight and narrow by Satan.

Parallels with the post-British Leyland motor industry in the UK.

And Pontiac has just been killed off by GM. GM…

I fail to understand why they are rescuing Chrysler *again*.

Me, I'm trying to come to terms to the fact that it's being rescued by FIAT. That's like being told how to keep on the straight and narrow by Satan.

I think you'll find that *all* car factories in the former USSR were entirely owned by the state.

I fail to understand why they are rescuing Chrysler *again*. They have never really made cars people want to…

How on earth did Bob spot that?? Does this mean JK is Judith's lovechild?

Nah. Neil Sedaka's.

And a supplementary question from Bob-the-baby: "Why is the Prime Minister sitting on that lady's [Judith Durham] knee?"

How on earth did Bob spot that?? Does this mean JK is Judith's lovechild? Alert Woman's Day immediately.

The taller gears do produce more speed from each revolution, so it's…

My osteopath says the lower gears are good – more revolutions is better!

And your Osteopath wouldn't want you to have to be going back to them all the time would they? ;-)
I can't see why an Osteopath would say that. The faster you move your legs the more…

we'll end up with numerous local cycle ways of varying quality (depending on how much the councils opt in).

And that will be it pretty much.

Could I just ask that the Megabeggardropapopamiss build it's local cycle way at spots that only go down hill. I plan on buying a…

Q How much longer can John Key keep saying anything he feels like to please his audience, before people begin to notice that his leadership is flakey?

A. No problem.wont happen. Don't you know they're all a bunch of sheep in NZ?

A cheap holiday in other people's misery, as someone once said.

The same someone who said the Queen ain't no human being, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJmouowPH5k

He's not the kind of man to accept your limits.

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

I meant limits on wrongness, just to be clear... damn irony on the Internet.

And my legs say the higher gear is better, as long as you're not getting actual severe pain, at which point change…

It was taxpayers' money and "its expenditure should be overseen by elected office holders able to be held to account at the ballot box – not by faceless, unelected, unaccountable aid bureaucrats."

The current aid focus on poverty alleviation was "too lazy and incoherent" to make the best…

Question. When cycling uphill is it better ...?

My osteopath says the lower gears are good – more revolutions is better!

He's not the kind of man to accept your limits.

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.
George, Darroch that is, or any other cycling aficionado.
Question. When cycling uphill is it better to be in the highest gear that allows you to stand on the pedals or the lowest possible gear without your…

"experts can say what they like, but we think they work."

That was pretty much Murray McCully's line to the NZIIA where he announced NZAID's closure. He was pretty disparaging about "unaccountable faceless bureaucrats and development experts".

He also didn't take questions from his audience of overseas and local diplomats,…

He's not the kind of man to accept your limits.

Try this site for a laugh.

Garth George could not be further from the truth.

He's not the kind of man to accept your limits.

Not only curmudgeonly, but utterly wrong.

the old fart escaping from it

His choice of new digs supports your supposition. Rotorua. Heh.

I don't believe the USSR had this level of Socialism in its heyday.

The new structure for Chrysler sounds remarkably like co-op syndicalism.

And that will be it pretty much.

But I am assured that the Wellington Regional Council are…

People want to see action, dammit, not pointy head ivory tower academics telling us we don't know what we're doing.

Sir, yes sir!

response, to paraphrase again, was: "experts can say what they like, but we think they work."

Since when have politicians ever worried what social researchers prove when promoting and implementing policy?

People want to see action, dammit, not pointy head ivory tower academics telling us we don't know what we're…

When Chrysler emerges from bankruptcy, the United Auto Workers union will own 55 per cent of the automaker and the US government will own 8 per cent.

ref
I don't believe the USSR had this level of Socialism in its heyday.

For I consider the bicycle to be the most inefficient, uncomfortable and unwieldy machine ever to have been invented.

Bicycle Efficiency
As for comfort and wieldyness I think the bicycle has evolved a little since the penny farthing.

I remember him on the radio saying that he was moving out of Auckland as he considered it the arsehole of the country. I couldn't help thinking if that was true then he was possibly the old fart escaping from it.

Roffles. Well done sir.

Unfortunately, that's Garth George, not satire.

Good old Garth George. I remember him on the radio saying that he was moving out of Auckland as he considered it the arsehole of the country. I couldn't help thinking if that was true then he was possibly the old fart escaping from…

Bloody do-gooder politically correct cyclists! If the government knew what was good for them, they'd build a road from Cape Reinga to Invercargill so that all mainstream New Zealanders could drive along it, which is what mainstream New Zealanders do. We don't faff about on bikes!!!!

Unfortunately, [[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10560013|that's Garth George, not…

Hate to be serious up in here

Please do. I most certainly think this warrants serious discussion.

Here you have a party and its boosters who have consistently maintained for at least the last five years of campaigning that tax cuts bring growth. My counter-argument has been that none of…

Q: Could it be that the mighty gun actually fires blanks?

I don't qualify for a "tax cut" because the "government" has decided that I am making "enough" money "already". But if I did qualify for a tax cut, I would "spend" it on a duvet made of magic kittens,…

See 29 seconds into this video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJ1PLniW-M

4/ Let's no mention the candyman, do it three times and he might turn up.

4) Be careful about speaking of the devil, it (sic) might actually turn up.

I'm heartened by the hivemind-uniform sense of revulsion that name has generated amongst PASers.

2) Faith-based dogma. Ironically, the army is investigating binge-drinking culture within its own ranks.

3) John Campbell already has that covered. And he…

I'd say a bunch, but all of them Norwegian.

That sir, made me guffaw.

How many politicians besides John Banks have used the words "I leave that to Whaleoil?"

I'd say a bunch, but all of them Norwegian.