I dont think anyone reasonable would argue that if someone is so comatose or out of it, that they are uncomunicative.... then consent cant be assumed. I think we all agree that absence of refusal does not indicate consent.

But some here seem to be arguing that even if consent…

I don't put a sign at my gate saying I'm out for the day and the front door is open. Both men and women need to protect themselves.

Up to a point, Bea. But like the rather toxic thread on Kiwiblog, I've got to wonder why personal responsibility seems to…

The sooner Ropati stops fronting up to the media and reminding us all what a dubious sort he clearly is, the better for everyone I think, particularly him.

Indeed – I know it's not a precise comparison, but I know people whose sympathy for Clint Rickards took a hit, every…

Given that we've pretty much established that Ropati drove his car around whilst very drunk that evening, with no thought for the welfare of anyone else on the road, I find his brother's talk of a private prosecution against the complainant for her admitted cocaine use somewhat beyond disgusting.

The…

I find his brother's talk of a private prosecution against the complainant for her admitted cocaine use somewhat beyond disgusting.

I don't think its unfair comment to say there are more than a few sportsmen who've been happy beneficiaries of 'what (and who) goes down on tour, stays on tour'…

Whatever way you look at it, though, did anyone else look at his wife with their wee baby on her hip, and feel uneasy?

did you see the pic in the Sunday Star Times.......the angle was different.....could have been a page three stunner.

I'm torn between it being terrible on…

Given that we've pretty much established that Ropati drove his car around whilst very drunk that evening, with no thought for the welfare of anyone else on the road,…

A law change – sounds good to me. What about if a person is drunk, then the onus is on the other person to show he or she had reasonable grounds to believe the first person had consented

Well, does that mean if a drunk driver crashes into me, I…

And the time they get caught out is seldom the first offence

Or the last offence. A friend of mine was hit on in a very aggressive fashion by Ropati a couple of months ago. When the case came to light in the media, we were astounded to find out…

The thing about juries is that it's harder to find 12 idiots than one.

Yes. But the selection process for being a judge is slightly more rigorous than the selection process for being a juror, which basically consists of answering mail sent to you and turning up.

They went back in after verdicts were given and interviewed jurors individually and asked them to construct a story of what happened in relation to the crime.

They found that often not only had the…

In my experience, there's always at least one total moron on any jury, who have no idea what the word "evidence" means, and obfuscate the issue with "what if" questions.

In this case, there was one bold & well-spoken guy who'd made up his mind right from the start. His argument…

I fear that would lead to defenses along the lines of "she can't have been raped, she's too stoic."

Stephen, I think we live in a Oprah-ised culture where there's something horribly wrong with you if you're not a performing trauma-monkey. Then, of course, you're damned all the same if…

1. Gary Gotlieb was essentially and primarily blowing his own promotional trumpet -as usual unashamedly

2. Prior to the Trial beginning Gotlieb would have made an application pursuant to section 347 of the Crimes Act to have the…

The number of jurors saying "guilty" dwindled basically due to the relentless pressure of a couple of fast-talkers, and the increasing desire to go home & forget the whole thing. Four of them contacted my friend after the trial and thanked her for holding out.

In my experience, there's always at…

I fear that would lead to defenses along the lines of "she can't have been raped, she's too stoic."

Yeah, I thought of that the moment I posted. Just, my friend was in a sexual assault trial last week (13-year-old girl) and some of the bullshit ideas the defence put…

you have a prelim to assert that the woman is behaving consistently with having been raped – get her a counsellor or a psychologist, talk with her friends; as well as establishing the extent of her trauma, it's a good opportunity to provide & inform a support network.

I fear that…

Actually, it is the onus, it's just easier in murder or burglary. If you can't establish that someone is dead, or that's someone's missing some stuff from their home, you're not going to get a murder or burglary conviction.

You will have rape cases where rape is accepted as having…

But some here seem to be arguing that even if consent…

But what really makes…

Basically, it's never been the onus of a murder victim to prove that they're actually dead, or a burglary victim to prove that their locks got busted; so a rape trial is not the place to have to prove that a woman was actually raped.

Actually, it is the onus,…

So if you are going to claim consent, then you should be able to say on what grounds you believed consent was given, and those grounds ought to be able to stand up to a reasonable person test.

I don't know if that'd be particularly effective. I've been thinking about…

I'm just a bit surprised it took so long for the jury to reach the verdicts it did.

Well, I find it rather encouraging. Suggests to me that in a sex crime case, the jurors didn't pull a Corbett, decide the complainant was a skanky whore who deserved everything she…

if you are going to claim consent, then you should be able to say on what grounds you believed consent was given

Something the woman…

So if you are going to claim consent, then you should be…

Any test where people have to…

But it has to be pointed out that there are substantial numbers of people of both sexes in NZ who consider getting utterly munted then having a shag…

Sean Plunket rounded on the police sergeant and softballed Gotlieb. He actually asked Gotlieb whether he thought there should be a law change as a result of the case.

OK, the old man's case was not as filthy as this one, but the principle…

so wasted apparently that she couldn't be assumed capable of finding her way home

then she also could not have been capable of giving consent.

There were problems with the complainant (juries do tend to distrust the evidence of drunk and drugged people), conflicting evidence from witnesses, conflicting medical opinions on the genital injuries, etc.

Damned straight. One time, the old man defended an alleged rapist. I remember it because Trev would tell anyone with…

Yeah – maybe the defendant just figured that kicking her out of his car with bruised genitalia at a public park , so…

The interview with His lawyer, Gary Gottleib and the police this evening on Close Up was pretty interesting.

Gottleib's a good defence lawyer. I agreed to write a letter of support for a client of his once, and was promptly provided with a letter to sign that, let's say, somewhat…

Gottleib asked the officer when the relative police unit was set up and the cop answered a week or so before the incident: the obvious implication being sought from Gottleib being that…

His family members who screamed abuse at the police can fuck off

I agree. Of course the innocent should be found innocent and justice should run its course, but I have faith that you don't end up in the dock answering obscene charges unless you're of questionable character.

What does…

But I've no doubt there was a case to answer, and that the police had to bring it . His family members who screamed abuse at the police can fuck off.

You bet, and you bet. I'm amazed a judge would put up with that without giving the arsehole involved…

The dubious qualities of the mad butcher aside ... what I've heard in the press suggests this prosecution was a complete farce.

I completely disagree. I thought there would be a not-guilty verdict — although I'm a little surprised there wasn't a conviction on the assault captured on the indoor…