Clark stated that she has concerns, as do many others. I think that you would be pushing it to say that she was putting pressure on the police to change anything, she was "urging" the police not to let it drop. That,…

Whilst you might have said something similar about how the law works the absolute outrage expressed in those writings was palpable. Maybe…

Instead of the pollies chiming in about police procedures how about dealing with the real problem..poor parenting…

What would you say if the police now came out and said "We got it wrong. It's just one of those times when you blind yourself to evidence that doesn't fit your case. We are going back to have a fresh look so that all invoved can find closure"?
I,…

I'd agree with that, but it is not so much the outcome for the individual that I am getting at, but a publicly expressed dissatisfaction with the process producing a verdict and an outcome just as it…

I don't think so. Public consensus seems to be that OJ did do it. My initial, gut reaction, was that in the Kahui case defence made Macsyne King look pretty suspicious. And I think a lot of people think that.

"In both instances,…

As IS stated before there is no statute of limitations on murder so the police could have just not prosecuted until they had a solid case, however long it took.

Well from the police point of view, there are two things to consider:

1. If there is, as far as…

My guess would be that the police "know" they got the right guy, the definitive 'we will not be charging anyone else' seems to back up that guess. They just didn't have the evidence to convict.

They also hurt their case by being a bit too cute with evidence that…

Q: What happens if somebody has been charged with causing the death?

Where an individual has been charged with causing someone's death, e.g. by murder or manslaughter, the Coroner may either:
postpone opening an inquiry;
open and adjourn an inquiry; or
adjourn an inquiry,

pending the outcomes of any criminal…

is it possible to get the bit preceding

Neil, sorry, I meant to reply the first time you asked.

The clip of her Breakfast interview is here.

I certainly would urge them (police) not to...

the "certainly" suggests she's already made some other points which might shed a bit of light on what she's saying.

Craig, is everything OK? You seem very angry today, across this and other posts. Anything you need to share with the group?

I receive my psychoanalysis from qualified professionals who are in the same room, and I'm perfectly happy with that status quo. What I'm not happy with is the…

Fundamentally, the case failed because the police did not present sufficient evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. But instead of pointing the finger where it belongs – at hasty police who would not wait to assemble a decent case

That's a possible answer.

It is of course…

I dont think we have a coroners court as such in this country, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

We have a coronial service. I think where they have hearings they use a courtroom, I don't think it's a proper court though.

Knowing when your words should be chosen with the greatest of care, or even when silence is the wisest course of all.

Seriously, I really think both of them did choose their words with care, hence my "string the bastards up" comment above.

Craig, don't fucking patronise me.

Oh, you first. I do get that Blade Runner is fiction, and both Clark and Key aren't perfect, soulless replicants. But she's the PRIME MINISTER and Key WANTS TO BE. How about a little sodding leadership, rather than following public opinion (and not particularly well-informed…

Our justice system depends on the police doing their jobs properly. When they don't, people walk free.

No, the police can do their jobs properly and still the defendant walks free. Unless "properly" means "without any human error", in which case, we wouldn't need trials.

Seems that the march of time and ignorance has corrupted yet another useful bit of our language

Bea, thanks for joining. I tend to favour descriptive to prescriptive. My understanding of the usage is this one:

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990813

I blame those parents of hers, myself...

Sorry Craig, but that Traceh is just a wrong un. There's nowt to blame Deirdre for. (Besides, these last few episodes have been camp classics on the Deirdre front. The way she sucks on those cigarettes and starts gasping for breath during her…

I am seriously not worked up enough about the PM or Key making these comments to get in a fight about it. It's not as if the PM has called…

BTW, did you feel the same sense of outrage when Tony Blair called for the freeing of Deirdre Rashid?

I was waiting for Jeremy Beedle to pop up from behind the Speaker's Chair, and reveal it was all a sick practical joke.

You (and Idiot/Savant) are right of course, but…

That, in my view, is acceptable behavior for anyone, including the Prime Minister.

"Anyone" isn't the head of government — and has the power to set the Cabinet agenda, appoint and dismiss Ministers, and has vast influence over the government's legislative and Budget agenda. The Prime Minister does. The separation…

2. The police did not hae enough evidence to convict because the case revealed sombody else may have done it. So a new case emerges from the old and the police investigate that.

As I pointed out, the face of a prior prosecution is reasonable doubt on a plate in…

Where a serious criminal offence has been disclosed during the course of an inquest, the coroner…

You (and Idiot/Savant) are right of course, but if politicians can't speak as people on occasion (as David suggests), then what can they do? They are members of our community after all.

BTW, did you feel the same sense of…

I refer to, of course, Tracy Barlow's shocking conviction for murdering that abusive scumbag, Charlie Stubbs! I blame those parents of hers, myself...

I weep for you.
;-)

They can no longer charge their prime suspect. They therefore have no option but to let it drop. That's what "acquittal" means.

If the police didn't want to be in that situation, then they should have waited to assemble a better case.

Totally true. So the case to convict Kahui…

They can no longer charge their prime suspect. They therefore have no option but to let it drop. That's what "acquittal" means.

If the police didn't want to be in that situation, then they should have waited to assemble a better case.

Totally true. So the case to convict Kahui…

"It does provide for the waiving of double jeopardy where there is what is called a tainted acquittal. Then the High Court could order a retrial.

Just what we always needed a method by which lawyers could charge fees, again & again & again.......
Double jeopardy has been around a while I…

And the tide continues to turn. National leader John Key said he agreed with Helen Clark

Bipartisan idiocy — not much to crow about, Steve. Meanwhile, why haven't we heard from our leaders on a criminal case the public are really concerned about?

I refer to, of course, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_Barlow#Prosecution_and_conviction|Tracy Barlow's…

I think that you would be pushing it to say that she was putting pressure on the police to change anything, she was "urging" the police not to let it drop.

They can no longer charge their prime suspect. They therefore have no option but to let it drop. That's…

Could someone enlighten me as to whether our legal system has anything akin to Double Jeopardy?

Google says there have been previous attempts to shuffle exemptions into the double jeopardy rule but I don't know what happened to them. Currently – The Press:

the Government [have] had legislation before Parliament to…

Tax Cuts are pork?

No. Pork is public money spent on projects that appeal to some politicians support base [as defined in a nicely informative Island Life article last week]. Private income is not public money.

This has to be seen in context. Clark stated that she has concerns, as do many others. I think that you would be pushing it to say that she was putting pressure on…

They could charge him again, if significant new evidence came to light. Which is what they'd need really – someone who knows to break their silence.

No they can't. s26 BORA forbids double jeopardy, and the government's Criminal Procedures Bill, which would have allowed retrials on the basis of "new…

National leader John Key said he agreed with Miss Clark and it was unacceptable that no one was held accountable.

"I find it repugnant that two young New Zealanders are dead and no one is being held accountable for that and I am pleased police have said they will. .…

But seriously. Clark had to say something and "urge" the police not to let the case hang there was really the only thing she could say.

I'm sorry, I just don't get the reasoning behind your premise. Why the hell did she have to say anything? (Or for that batter,…

The latter. By moving quickly, they've shot themselves in the foot. Double jeopardy means they can't charge Kahui again, while if they prosecute anyone else, the earlier trial is reasonable doubt on a plate.

They could charge him again, if significant new evidence came to light. Which is what they'd…

Clark had to say something

Indeed she did. And that thing was "in this country we have a seperation of powers and an independent police force. It would thus be improper to comment on a criminal case". Unfortunately, she decided to say something else.

A group of people who conspire…

I really hope Clark gets a big enough bounce in the next round of preferred PM polls

;-)
But seriously. Clark had to say something and "urge" the police not to let the case hang there was really the only…

what the hell does Clark expect them to do? Keep charging members of the family on increasingly flimsy pretexts until something sticks, or their credibility is terminally FUBAR, whatever comes first??

The latter. By moving quickly, they've shot themselves in the foot. Double jeopardy means they can't charge Kahui again,…

Congratulations, then, to Marie Dybergh for having the fortitude to stick up for the separation of powers as she did today on Morning Report.

Agreed – she was completely correct. But, it's somewhat ironic that this is the same lawyer reminding us of the right to silence when only a…

Tax Cuts are pork?

Only if they go to poor people. If they go to the rich, then its sound, sensible, responsible policy, of the sort the Herald thinks should result in everyone getting a gong.

...the private members bill to limit the right to silence...

I think the proposed bill is merely that MP (Geoff Braybrooke? I know it's one of the Hawkes Bay ones) thinking out aloud. Such a bill hasn't got a snowball in hell's chance of becoming law.
I suspect he's just…

I agree wholeheartedly, but can appreciate the PM's need (or perceived need) to vocalise the community's feelings in this matter.

FFS, Paul, don't you suspect that politicians and media outlets "vocalis[ing] the community's feelings" that someone, anyone needed to be charged with something NOW might have played a significant part…

Perversion of the course of justice takes the form of one of three acts:

• Fabrication or disposal of evidence
• Intimidating a witness or juror
• Threatening a witness or juror

Can anyone say why members of the family have not been prosecuted for perverting the course of justice

I believe perverting the course of justice involves actively doing something – destroying evidence, hiding the murder weapon etc. I don't know if "refusing to answer any questions" or saying "I don't…

There's a strong and understandable public urge for resolution in this case, but that doesn't mean the Prime Minister should start directing prosecutions.

I agree wholeheartedly, but can appreciate the PM's need (or perceived need) to vocalise the community's feelings in this matter.

Can anyone say why members of the…

It's not that too much has been taken in tax it's that it has been held centrally when so much responsibility has been decentralised to District & Regional Councils.

Tax Cuts are pork?

Only when they're offered by George Bush, John Howard, David Cameron or John Key to their "rich prick" hollow buddies. Get on message, Lyndon! :)

A more fruitful avenue to pursue ... Fix that problem, and you might save the lives of some other children.

Well said David.

The only person who comes…