NoS!

As you were, Juha. That's Riddleyspeak for numbers, not "network operating system" or whatever.

"...in tu the hart uv the stoan hart uv the dans. Evere thing blippin & bleapin & movin in the shiftin uv thay Nos. Sum tyms bytin sum tyms bit."

Any politcal journo in NZ worth their salt could've driven a bus through Turia's argument. At some point in the not too distant past she would have some european ancestory herself... I'd put money on it. Thus rendering her argument completely hypocritcal.

Her father is/was American. I have no idea…

Also, I'm not suggesting some centralised control of the entire economy but... building schools and hositals when existing facilities are full is a pretty good way of ensuring waiting lists and over-crowded schools.

I think even in PC's minimalist state, you'd want to be able to plan police resourcing too.…

So is gender, race, age, and lots of other things we choose not to discriminate on.

Tussock, actually gender and race are not terribly good predictors of income or labour market participation (race is relevant to qualifications, gender isn't).

Also, I'm not suggesting some centralised control of the entire economy…

Qualifications are a significant predictor of income and labour market participation.

So is gender, race, age, and lots of other things we choose not to discriminate on. So what? Ultimately, who cares if some of the immigrants that come here are poor? Are only locals allowed to be poor? Surely…

You make three objections, but I think you'll find they're all answered in the post above. Your first objection is this:

I think the statement that immigration policy is inherently racist is quite simply wrong. Race needn't even be a factor – I've certainly not suggested race/ethnicity/religon as…

I'm just following your numbers argument to the conclusion. I actually think you're right – the flow should be…

And the argument about qualifications is, I submit, just…

"I don't know why we need an immigration policy *at all* [said Ben]. It can…

One appeal of any rigid ideological framework – political, religious, whatever – is that it's one way to avoid (or actively strike back at) the messy, complex and perhaps even intractable bullshit of being alive.

Nicely put.

Well, I didn't want to go there... but on one…

The squeals of anguish now that folks like my own good self are being targeted are a wonder to behold. Trouble is, no one seems to see the irony. Is it because white folk are less…

I'm planning a trip to Montpelier later this year where there is a major problem with ethnic…

I'd like to…

I think if we had an open door policy, Auckland would outstrip Sydney in under 10 years. NZ would outstrip Oz in every way except quantity of sand within 20

So, in 10 years Aucklanders would be drinking recycled waste-water?

And the rest of us in 20?

I know people…

I'd favour losing most of the system of language tests, shortage job lists and so on and have a simple system: new immigrants get a work permit when they find a skilled job

.

On the one hand, I think the language tests might be a little over the top but…

Mate, the NZ High Comms round the world need to be abandoned then, together with the rest of the nation state embassies.

Having said that there are unfortunate, pragmatic reasons why countries like NZ need an…

I don't want to harp on and on but I think it would be unwise to have no limit on numbers and to not preference skilled over…

I don't know how you'd know if someone was into genocide, unless they had actually done…

Surprised I've got no bites on my no-immigration-policy-policy. I wasn't kidding on that one. Can anyone who doesn't like to think of themselves as a racist give me a clear description of the kind of people we don't want in this country?

So you wouldn't check to see if someone…

There's plenty of brown-necks out there, Tze Ming, who aren't going to pay the slightest attention to a parenthetical half-backtrack excluding 'Asians' from the general anathema

I do find the "we're all agin the white devils!" thinking that a few East and South Asian posters on PA espouse at once…

I do think diversity is strength but I don't seems to have details.

Blatant criminality? I'm sure…

Why do you think it's unreasonable to allow people to do work that…

In Australia, the forecast demand for labour over the next twenty years is predominantly for people with qualifications around trade-level and above (the forecast growth in jobs in Australia are jobs that require a vocational qualification). NZ's not really…

Depends why you don't reasonably expect it.

Building a sewerage system and schools and hospitals requires labour. The cheap labour…

Funny you should say that. I had a Kiwi in my car recently. Complete disaster, as he was navigating.

My point though was regional/ state service providers plan for changing demand in services – schools, hospitals, sewage etc (any capital development) based on demographic information. Simply saying, we don't mind who/where/when, come one and all is way to risky.

We'd have too many ... X.

You mean mutants with superpowers?

[changes gears]

I assume the class doesn't consider it a matter of racism to, for example, exclude people who you don't reasonably expect to make a positive contribution to that economy thingy.

It would be interesting to hear what massive social implications people are really afraid of. Spell it out. We'd have too many ... X. Fill in the X, everyone who wants to…

Of course letting in one or another person in as individuals is (usually) not problematic. However nation-states and the human population of the world are not collections of individuals but rather a plethora of social groupings with potentially massive social implications in…

Um, being a National Party voter/member/ex-office holder immediately disqualifies you from any game of 'Hori-er Than Thou' – the big gay toaster oven was repossessed years ago. (And that was 110-proof facetious, in case anyone was wondering.)…

Good thing I'm leaving the country... bad puns to follow, possibly.

If you leave a fake forwarding address when you depart, the bad puns won't know where to find you.

And hang on, isn't Craig the only Maori on the thread so far?

Sadly, the Nielsen NetRatings demographics show Public Address readers to be less likely to be Maori than the average NZ internet user.

28% of y'all are in executive or senior government jobs though. And most of you…

It'd be only fair if those people who put into place were made to go through that same process themselves, so as to understand how it actually works.…

I'm not sure why you're so annoyed at the facetious response.

I'm not annoyed! Just monitoring progress after Craig's heartfelt appeal... Surely monitoring facetiousness is facetious in itself?

And hang on, isn't Craig the only Maori on the thread so far?

I think you're cutting her a lot of slack…

You're probably right – but I don't think any serious observer – left, right, whaever – can claim the status quo is working. At the very least, the New Zealand Immigration Service could do with political and public sector…

Nice comment, I'd also add a reality check for Tze Ming Mok. The most depressing thing about Turia's 'nasty, racist blurt' (as I/S so eloquently puts it) is that it's hardly the most extreme anti-immigrant rhetoric I've heard in my own whanau – let alone from *ahem* prominent Maori…

I'm backing cold fusion will happen first. We could get coherence and workability, but consensus is a pipedream.

Perhaps, but let's face it Tariana and the Maori Party has much better odds of being around after the next election than Winston and his queer little personality cult. Much as I hate to pay Helen Clark a compliment, she quite efficiently castrated Peters and replaced his balls with…

Doesn't that imply that we should take Turia and her attempt at fomenting ethnic strife seriously?

Lampooning Winston seems to have worked…

And to test my reply to Craig, we'll see how many comments follow that are just jokes about 'brown' substances, compared with "serious political and public policy debate"...

To be honest, it's hard to take this sort of thing seriously enough to debate it as public policy. We managed umpteen…

Of course, we're used to Winston, and Tariana's seems to somehow not match the facts even worse than his.

I think that at some point Winston fatigue set in for most people. And Turia's stuff is kinda worse, because she actually implies skin colour as a criterion for entry. Brrrr…

Errm, can we pass on that please?

Does anyone know where I can get lessons in the language?

Dig up any old footage of Sir Ed Hillary or Colin Meads.

Can we please have a free, frank, fact-based and (most of all) SERIOUS political and public policy debate about immigration – if nothing else, the novelty value would be considerable.

Good luck dude. Even here, you'll have a better chance with waffles.

In…

I predict that demographic changes will see more New Zealanders reconnecting with their curmudgeon heritage. Does anyone know where I can get lessons in the language?

Ageing journalists are generally regarded as having the best grasp of it. I personally owe everything to Tom Frewen.

Does anyone know where I can get lessons in the language?

I regularly attend the citizenship ceremonies at the Ak Town Hall, and we get a lot of 'British' people in particular, who are black Zimbabweans, Hong Kong Chinese, mixed-race South African etc – but who…

Source: WordNet (r) 1.7

curmudgeon
n : a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of stubborn ideas…

Only 1/16th? [curmudgeon]

it's not about the quantum, its whether you genuinely feel like a curmudgeon, and others agree you are one.

Doesn't really work as well...

I recently discovered that I am in fact one-sixteenth curmudgeon.

Only 1/16th?

The squeals of anguish now that folks like my own good self are being targeted are a wonder to behold. Trouble…

It's good to see that she's not racist because ""No, we aren't playing the race card, because we are not talking about Asian immigration."

Wonder if non-White Westerners…