Public Address | Cafe | Island Life: Books are our friends

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:59:11 +1200

Chesterton on fairy tales (and Yeats) – a good one-page quickie:
http://www.online-literature.com/chesterton/all-things-considered/31/

Apart from the essays most of Chesterton – including The Man Who Was Thursday – is, IMHO, a load of smug bumph.

Andrew Stevenson

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:08:39 +1200

Grace and economy of prose style in fiction?

For grace I'd pick Guy Gavriel Kay (not economy though) the man can write, Connie Willis too. David Drake might not be to most people's taste, but he does care about the craft of writing.

Does G.K. Chesterton's essays count as fiction?…

Emma Hart

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:39:54 +1200

I think I'm out on a limb here because I don't read much fiction anyway, and I tend to evaluate everything on grace and economy of prose style, like you'd evaluate a columnist. And JKR doesn't have any of that for me.

I can still remember going back to reading…

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:27:08 +1200

I like JKR's writing style, I have to admit, and I expected to loathe it.

I think I'm out on a limb here because I don't read much fiction anyway, and I tend to evaluate everything on grace and economy of prose style, like you'd evaluate a columnist. And JKR…

Lyndon Hood

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:43:09 +1200

A relative of some teaching experience and an interest in kids books has passed on a certain frustratio with the Potter phenomenon – mostly I think that there are things in the same genre out there (I'm thinking of Diana Wynne Jones).

I supposes it might be a bit like…

Ben Austin

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:01:17 +1200

On the theme of public school hi-jinks I can't recommend Tom Brown's School Days highly enough, it taught me all I know about being a just, wise and responsible 19th century MP and the virtue of the pre Industrial English countryside

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:42:49 +1200

American Psycho might not be a great one to read if you're trying to pull, either.

Depends on *who* you're trying to pull.

__"Oh hi I see you're reading American Psycho. Have you got to the bit with the rat – that's my fave? You wanna hook up or something…

Joe Wylie

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:40:13 +1200

. . . before that I read Wild Wales by George Borrow, an 19th Century Travel Log. Make of that as you will.

If you like accounts of picking fights with Catholics Borrow's the bloke. He even manages to slip in a bit of narrative between his endless gloating accounts…

Jackie Clark

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:45:32 +1200

I meant to say, also in the Listener is the review of Armistead Maupin's new book by Peter Wells. I like a bit of Armistead Maupin, I must say.

Jackie Clark

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:43:49 +1200

There's actually a good article on all this Harry Potter stuff – apologies, David – in the newest Listener. The content isn't available online, but I thought that a few people here may be Listener subscribers, like me.

Emma Hart

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:20:01 +1200

Harry Potter books remind me of Dahl.

I was having that very conversation with (or 'at') my partner last night. The scenes with his aunt and uncle at the beginning of every book are very reminiscent of Dahl.

I like JKR's writing style, I have to admit, and I expected…

James Green

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:53:04 +1200

Harry Potter books remind me of Dahl. Not so much in the prose style, but in the some disadvantaged child finds something special, but by virtue of their upbringing remains inherently 'good' (Matilda, BFG, Danny, Charlie, the boy in The Witches etc.).

Also, I'm not sure what it says about…

InternationalObserver

Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:47:05 +1200

Hmmmmm ... not so sure about the vid you linked to. I'm sure there are plenty of White Trash who could benefit from being told to read a book, wear deodourant, and brush their teeth – not just The Niggaz.

The Other Andrew Smith

Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:56:02 +1200

I am surprised by the number of people who are reading JK Rowling and Neil Gaiman. I found Neverwhere the novel added little to my appreciation of the tv series; Stardust I returned to the library after a chapter. His characterization tends to be two dimensional. I think he should…

Che Tibby

Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:24:00 +1200

you might also want to mention that many adults have 12-13y/o reading ages.

that's why i think jkr has been so successful. she's been able to tap both markets. that makes it good writing imho. simple, but good.

far better than i will ever be... :(

Jackie Clark

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:13:07 +1200

But Heather, in the case of JKR, that's pretty much how children of the age she's writing for, think. Without entering into a huge explanantion of how childrens' brains develop, she has been very clever in understanding her nonadult audience, and that is who, after all, the books are aimed…

Heather Gaye

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:22:55 +1200

Really? I know millions of readers can't be wrong, but I find JKR's prose style — those clumsy, hackneyed sentences — unbearable.

Same. The plot itself is quite impressive; particularly the way she throws in seemingly offhand notes in earlier books that have significance later on. But stylistically, it's a…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:12:27 +1200

It's all about personal preference, Russell. Boring old world if we all liked the same thing etc etc. What astounds me is that so many adults DO like the HP books, considering that they were written for children. I certainly don't think her style would translate well to adult fiction,…

Russell Brown

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:07:20 +1200

And Che, I LOVE Harry Potter.
that'll be because it is good writing, and is loved by millions.

Really? I know millions of readers can't be wrong, but I find JKR's prose style — those clumsy, hackneyed sentences — unbearable.

I took a turn at reading one of the Harry…

David Hamilton

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:38:44 +1200

Oh god, I left an extra "s" in there and I can't edit it. I'm so very sorry...

David Hamilton

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:36:18 +1200

rogerd: I agree, Anansi Boys seemed like Neil Gaiman's entry into the rotating stand at an airport bookshop genre. It was still Gaiman, but with all the teeth pulled. On the other end of the spectrum I heartily recommend his Sandman graphics novels.

Che Tibby

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:34:33 +1200

And Che, I LOVE Harry Potter.

that'll be because it is good writing, and is loved by millions.

i'll also admit that my comments were, you know, to make me sound like an asshole.

got the conversation rolling but... :)

kmont

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:32:56 +1200

Good thinking Sam F.

Am with you on going J-style, I have a couple of those bookcovers from Japan that I bought back, some with manga style drawings on them. Keep em guessing.

Also nearly bought a cloth bookcover complete with strap that looks like a little bag. I restrained…

kmont

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:27:33 +1200

This is a bit of a thread crossover thing, but reading this from the Guardian comments:

"they were sharing a train carriage, she said 'that books rubbish', he immediately stood up and threw it out the window and she was duly impressed."

I am thinking that "chucking a book" at…

Sam F

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:23:21 +1200

I think the best strategy for pulling with books is to doll yourself up in the traditional way, then wrap a blank cover around whatever you're reading (in Japanese style, where people habitually buy these covers to conceal their literary choice on the subway). Fellow passengers' curiosity will take you…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:17:35 +1200

I'm acknowledging the unreliable assumptions people can make, and confessing to be as guilty as the next person of making them

I was wondering after I'd written that to you whether I might have been jumping the gun a little, David. I do apologise for doing so. And I have…

rodgerd

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:06:55 +1200

Possibly the worst "classic" to read in public if you don't want to be accosted by dodgy strangers is that famous one by Nabokov,

American Psycho might not be a great one to read if you're trying to pull, either.

rodgerd

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:05:35 +1200

Buy Snow Crash, go to a decent second-hand bookshop (Browsers if you're up this way) and just buy it. You'll be reading it more than once anyway.

Pity the last third is loses the plot and the 'facts' about linguistics are complete crap.

I made the mistake of the starting…

Andrew Stevenson

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:59:51 +1200

The only reason I forced myself to finish the Da Vinci Code (it was a near thing) was to see if he could fit in an evil twin, which was the only hackneyed plot device he needed for the complete set.

B Jones

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:27:49 +1200

Possibly the worst "classic" to read in public if you don't want to be accosted by dodgy strangers is that famous one by Nabokov, rhymes with fajita. If I write the name, I suspect it will get this page triggering worksafe filters across the country. The number of people who…

Jeremy Andrew

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:23:10 +1200

Bugger – edit – Robyn, my apologies.

Jeremy Andrew

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:22:38 +1200

And Robin, read Neal Stephenson, the story might be made up, but the facts are true. You'll learn at least as much about nanotech from Diamond Age as you would from any non-fiction available on the topic.

Jeremy Andrew

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:20:35 +1200

I got 30 pages into American Gods and bought another book. Neverwhere was ok though

See, I'd put that the other way around, I found Neverwhere an inferior ripoff of Roofworld and at least one other novel I can't quite recall right now, but quite enjoyed American Gods (and Anansi…

Robyn Gallagher

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:10:30 +1200

Well, I've read all of Dan Browns books and I enjoyed them. They are thrilling page-turners which I enjoyed as much as any blockbuster action thriller movie I've seen.

Also, I don't read a lot of fiction. I'm happy to watch a movie that is a work of fiction, but…

Che Tibby

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:59:40 +1200

trying to get stardust and snow crash out of the wellington central library is a mission...

they are always out.

I once got caught out reading the Guardian Weekly on the bus and had to put up with the most boring conversation ever from a fellow tree hugger

heh... that…

Lyndon Hood

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:46:59 +1200

Stardust would be a good Gaiman book to flirt over I'd have said.

Don Christie

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:45:26 +1200

i'll admit to being on public transport, seeing someone with a copy of harry potter, and thinking, "must be a remedial reader".

Heh, that was probably me. The bus is the perfect place for reading childrens' books. I once got caught out reading the Guardian Weekly on the bus and…

Tony Kennedy

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:44:56 +1200

i'll admit to being on public transport, seeing someone with a copy of harry potter, and thinking, "must be a remedial reader.

What influence does the bus number have on the choice of reading material, The 18:10 number 9 last night had readers in my immediate vicinity enjoying “Lords of…

Lyndon Hood

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:44:40 +1200

pulp with classic covers

I recall recently seeing for sale some blank books in old pulp fiction covers. Also some penguin classics with blank (draw-your-own) covers. Although if you combined those you would get the opposite of your suggestion. Though it might make good conversation if somebody did ask...

One…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:38:53 +1200

What happened to those devices they allegedly created in Japan that you entered some personal data into, and then wirelessly detected when compatible people were in proximity?

I got 30 pages into American Gods and bought another book. Neverwhere was ok though.

David Hamilton

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:13:43 +1200

I'm sensing an entrepreneurial opportunity here – pulp with classic covers. For those who want to get on the bandwagon of book cover appeal without having to actually absorb any serious literature. Perhaps a Murakami which is secretly a series of sudoku puzzles. Of course it would only work for…

Che Tibby

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:30:08 +1200

Yeah, but you completely failed to get Philip K Dick's Do androids dream of electric sheep?, so I wouldn't be too smug.

it's not that i didn't get it... it's that i didn't like it...

dick has a habit of conjuring up a couple of truly great ideas, and banging…

Tom Beard

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:08:23 +1200

I'm currently reading Foucault's Pendulum on public transport, and aside from the somewhat dry encyclopaedic passages (which may or may not be completely fabricated), it's like the quality original of which the code is a cheap knock-off.

Exactly. Most of what's (supposedly) interesting about Da Code is in Eco anyway,…

James Green

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:27:29 +1200

i'll admit to being on public transport, seeing someone with a copy of harry potter, and thinking, "must be a remedial reader".

I once re-read a copy of a Harry Potter on an evening bus between Auckland and Feilding. It was a remarkably good way to keep occupied.

However, last…

Emma Hart

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:20:08 +1200

Apparently DB teaches english & creative writing as well.

You're kidding me. The guy who wrote

On his hands and knees, the curator froze, turning his head slowly.

teaches creative writing?

Much profanity in front of my children there just was.

Heather Gaye

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:12:59 +1200

Why is Dan Brown considered so bad?

OH MY GOD I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY ABOUT HOW MUCH I DISLIKE DAN BROWN. I read two books to see what the fuss was about. As a maths-lover a lot of the actual content regarding codes and ambigrams was pretty interesting,…

Leigh Kennaway

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:08:44 +1200

The best of the many funny comments on The Guardian's site was
Surely someone who can read 'The Da Vinci Code' without blushing must be an equally shameless lover? What's not to like?

David Cauchi

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:55:04 +1200

Che Tibby wrote:

'i'll admit to being on public transport, seeing someone with a copy of harry potter, and thinking, "must be a remedial reader".'

Yeah, but you completely failed to get Philip K Dick's Do androids dream of electric sheep?, so I wouldn't be too smug.

B Jones

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:53:10 +1200

I was very impressed to find The God Delusion, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales and Neil Gaiman's American Gods within a five person radius on the Tube a while back.

Che Tibby

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:29:48 +1200

i'll admit to being on public transport, seeing someone with a copy of harry potter, and thinking, "must be a remedial reader".

David Slack

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:24:25 +1200

Jackie, I'm acknowledging the unreliable assumptions people can make, and confessing to be as guilty as the next person of making them.

I'd never impugn your judgement – I was just listening to a Lemon Jelly track on the iPod the other day and thinking kindly of the helpful person…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:17:12 +1200

Now Mr Slack, I would have to take issue with your statement "A glance at the cover of the book a person is reading is all we need." A lot of people, me included, read all sorts of things. I read chick lit from time to time. What does that…

reece palmer

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:08:19 +1200

umbrage get thee behind me...

David Slack

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:01:04 +1200

ps. what's in the vid? Some work places frown upon video watching (but not forum commenting).

Sorry. Overlooked that. Possibly NSFW for repeated use of the word "motherfuckin". Also some visual attention to booty. Having said that, its intention is noble. Can't guarantee your employer will see it that way,…

Hadyn Green

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:58:20 +1200

Why is Dan Brown considered so bad?

It is worse than most pulp. Awful characterisation, things happening for no reason, idiotic mono/dialogue, romance springs from nowhere. It's like the worst Hollywood movie (hence it became one of the worst Hollywood movies).

Hadyn Green

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:54:50 +1200

I was reading The Code on the bus one day and the woman sitting in front of me turned around and said (with some enthusiasm) "it's great isn't it?!"

I didn't have the heart to tell her I was reading it solely for the pop-culture references and that no, it…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:53:13 +1200

Why is Dan Brown considered so bad?

It's no different to any other thriller you might read – it's not up there with Banks or Rankin but it's a reasonable way to kill a few hours.

Though the definitive book on the grail thing has to be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Scabies_And_The_Holy_Grail|Rat Scabies and…

Public Address

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:53:13 +1200

Discussion from blog post.