Russ. We already have our tickets, I was kind of inquiring for James Liddell. Cheers.

Righto, that should be fine too.

If Ministerial/Parliamentary Services aren't the place to go (and thanks to people who took a serious question seriously) who is?

If Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister's office, then I wonder what other avenues there might be – other than straight to the police. Given their reluctance to press…

Offering positions in exchange for positions is an abuse of governance power in this case, which is quite different than where an operational employment relationship already existed.…

I suggest Goff approached John Key in a "respectful" manner about the allegation

sigh...

Having been employed by both Parliamentary Services and Ministerial Services, I can say that both are good employers who view sexual harassment (including by MPs) as a very serious matter.

Well, that's something we can agree…

Are there any tickets left for Thursday? Russ, anyone?

I think we can get you in there Steve. Sofie too?

That's just bloody bizarre. For electorate MPs, obviously they are there because the local punters voted them in, but list MPs are MPs purely by way of a Party construct. If the Party changes the construct, it's completely illogical that the MP can remain.

What simon g said above, but…

For example, if ACToids took over the Labour Party caucus (as if that could ever happen!), then the new regime could demote all list MPs with unsound views. Very messy.

The party has enough power already, picking the list positions. Don't…

Given how easily Parliamentary staff can be sacked, without recourse, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if sexual harassment by MPs is treated as something of a game that nobody really talks about. SSC campaigns notwithstanding.

Having been employed by both Parliamentary Services and Ministerial Services, I can say…

Oh, wait, we're talking about politics.…

The "waka jumping" legislation that prevented members from staying in Parliament after leaving their Party (Electoral Integrity Act 2001) has expired – hence why Gordon Copeland stayed in Parliament after defecting from the UF list over the Section 59 repeal. Worth is entitled to stay if he wishes, but…

surely ejection from the Party would remove him from the list and thus from Parliament?

Nope. Even if ejected from the Nats, we're stuck with him for 2 1/2 years more unless he decides to go.

I'm still trying to figure out why the matter wasn't put in the hands of Ministerial Services at the time.

Because this wouldn't be the domain of Ministerial Service (nor the Cabinet Office). Min Serv is responsible for providing support for Ministers – everything from travel to the employment of…

Well, the process I actually care about is whether sexual harassment around Parliament actually gets taken seriously when its politically inconvenient to do so

Given how easily Parliamentary staff can be sacked, without recourse, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if sexual harassment by MPs is treated as something…

The lack of a workplace would be the big one.

Perhaps... I just feel deeply icky about the idea of the Prime Minister's Office "investigating" allegations of that nature. If nothing else, I don't see how it could be done without giving the kind of people who think __State of…

Yes? How is that NOT a workplace issue?

The lack of a workplace would be the big one.

And while I'm sure there are plenty of people who are going to differ, I don't give Goff any kind of pass here ..

Clearly not ...

Key's about-face this afternoon on his willingness to meet with the Indian woman is just another step in a shambolic response. It is easily his worst few days as Prime Minister, and probably his worst since he entered politics.

Yeah, that's really what care about here — the process story.…

Hmmm. First, I think if Goff's intent had been to play a political game, he'd have done so in Budget week. Secondly, when did this become a workplace issue?

Russell: I'll admit I've just gotten back from Wellington, where I've been attending a funeral and getting roughly no sleep, but…

If the change was permanent then yeah, things would have changed.

But the way things have worked out historically for NZ (government-wise) it's just like shifting sands.

Some of those changes are permanent. National will not, for example, be reducing the minimum wage, repealing civil unions, or doing away with…

As I've said elsewhere, someone at the State Services Commission actually needs to sit Messers Goff and Key down and explain why workplace sexual harassment is serious shit, and not ammo in a political game.

Hmmm. First, I think if Goff's intent had been to play a political game, he'd…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjnkmNyArNg

I now wait to see who wins the bidding war between Campbell and Sainsbury to hump his leg at seven.

Campbell, by miles. In both good and not so good ways.

Pascinistas

Hope that catches on – liking.

"Songs in the Life of Key" for soothing tunes he could put on his iPod. – Any other suggestions?

Just quickly before Neil Young starts on National Radio at 11 – I think Buffalao Springfield's classic For What it's Worth should be on there…

Mr Worth must be gutted his case has been transferred to Wellington (odd that – usually it remains near the alleged scene or the victim... surprised a few journo's haven't picked up on the implications of that one... )

Since one assumes that the investigation is looking at things through…

I Know that Graham Reid has already used the title but I think with all the nasty stress he's been under it's time to suggest some "Songs in the Life of Key" for soothing tunes he could put on…

I love this piece so much, Mr Slack. In fact, it reminds me of something someone else * wrote a couple of years back.…

Sure things change – but not for long as is being evidenced now. Labour does it their way for a bit then National comes along and does it their way for a…

Things do change in and due to politics. Those changes affect people's lives significantly. YMMV…

In that respect, you're more Pollyanna than me, I fear.

Indeed... I probably should have said " big evidential cock-ups involving white 'victims' who score some well connected support a few years later".. but it didn't seem to scan so…

That his office didn't request any further evidence from the first complainant and backed Dr Worth solely on his word is quite ridiculous, and shows an appalling political myopia and bad judgement

About as bad as Goff and the rest of his party accepting the word of Winston Peters, David…

Oh really? A married woman with two kids, who had to ask her husband to decipher the text messages because she didn't know what all the x's were at the end. NOT GIRLFRIEND! You are insulting her again. Sorry but that is just rude.

I'm still trying to figure out…

I would say that's the last of the 90's cock-ups to be sorted out.

In that respect, you're more Pollyanna than me, I fear.

Honestly, as Che Tibby said – what is it about men of a certain generation?

I respectfully suggest a Bain thread might be appropriate...FTR, I totally disagree with the jury's verdict.

I hope a thread is avoidable... hasn't it been done to death? If you'll pardon the expression?

And don't forget, Not Guilty is not the same as 'he didn't do it'.

I suspect the…

I have vague recollections of having a conversation along these lines once before on here...but with regard to your comments, the point is that with Labour the needle swings one way and with National the needle swings the other way (with the needle being a useless metaphor…

But really love the pseudo-Lhaws' column!

(I was sent a copy of "Dancing With Beelzebub": it is one of only 3 books I've refused to review.)

That his office didn't request any further evidence from the first complainant and backed Dr Worth solely on his word is quite ridiculous, and shows an appalling political myopia and bad judgement

I think this is spot on – it strikes me as a man who is still struggling with…

According to my other 'arf, making a nuisance of yourself towards women is leaving the seat up, which — however reprehensible it…

Some relief for Key as central talking point

Media diversions in place – please follow alternate route along Easy Street.

David Bain's father has been smeared by his killer so he can walk free.

But next we will hear that "it was all a joke" or "she liked it" or "she was asking for it."

Victim blaming eh. So many ways to do it.

Thanks James. That's very useful context.

No worries, Russell. And thank you, very belatedly, for covering the whole sordid affair last year. It would have been highly inappropriate for me to comment on your post at that time.

So given they are tools of taggers and illegal downloaders I suspect Judith Collins will be having them crushed shortly.

I don't think I can remember the last time I used a writeable disc, let alone for something illegal. OTOH, Sharpies would work perfectly well for naming flash drives, so…

So given they are tools of taggers and illegal downloaders I suspect Judith Collins will be having them crushed shortly.

Naughty messages to one's girlfriend is embarrassing for leaders, but hardly a crime.

I'm struggling to process the distance from reality needed to use the word "girlfriend" here.

Word.

double word.

Triple word.

If this was scrabble, we'd be rolling in points.

Sharpies are definitely the ones you want to shoplift. I.e., high quality points and reasonably expensive.

Sharpies are better quality, but vivids seem to be more indelible.

"my pens have expo or stephen written on them – are they special ?"

Naughty messages to one's girlfriend is embarrassing for leaders, but hardly a crime.

I'm struggling to process the distance from reality needed to use the word "girlfriend" here.

Word.

double word.

I got the feeling they were popular with taggers, and had become a part of the street art culture.

Sharpies are definitely the ones you want to shoplift. I.e., high quality points and reasonably expensive.

Why not reinstate Worth? There's been no trial, no conviction. Naughty messages to one's girlfriend is embarrassing for leaders, but hardly a crime.

Are you kidding me???

I've only every seen 'Sharpie' in US-origin things. I didn't even recognise the brand name.

I got the feeling they were popular with taggers, and had become a part of the street art culture. When I saw posters for a local band called "The Sharpie Crows", I thought that it…

Naughty messages to one's girlfriend is embarrassing for leaders, but hardly a crime.

I'm struggling to process the distance from reality needed to use the word "girlfriend" here.

Word.

Another thing, perhaps a little off topic: It's quite clear, even from an…

Naughty messages to one's girlfriend is embarrassing for leaders, but hardly a crime.

I'm struggling to process the distance from reality needed to use the word "girlfriend" here.

Why not reinstate Worth? There's been no trial, no conviction. Naughty messages to one's girlfriend is embarrassing for leaders, but hardly a crime.

But you need the competence and direction behind you to be that kind of leader. And look at what’s there...

Felts mate, felt!

Thankyou... I was about to post that's what I recalled being asked for when all I had was textas.... wtf was a 'felt' thought little aussie immigrant me.

It was a felt tipped pen, I was to learn...

I don't want someone I can "relate to" running the place; I want someone who is competent.

It's Gore v Bush all over again...

Fuck that. Vivid 4 life.

We always called them squeakers.

I remain convinced he is principally in this job for the prestige.

David, this seems like a fair assessment to me.
Have a nice weekend!

Isn't that a fact, says John Wyse, what I was telling the citizen about Bloom and the Sinn Fein?

— That's so, says Martin. Or so they allege.

— Who made those allegations? says Alf.

— I, says Joe. I'm the alligator.

Whole thing is descending into a Monty Python-scripted episode of Dad's Army...

It should be made into a fillum.

I swear that marker pens always used to be called Vivids, and didn't start to be called Sharpies until Sharpie started their television campaign.

Fuck that. Vivid 4 life.

In my mind, they're 'whiteboard markers' if you're going to use them on a whiteboard, and 'permanent markers' if you're going…

On Newstalk ZB John was reputed to have said that the person making the allegations was the alligator

HA.
Whole thing is descending into a Monty Python-scripted episode of Dad's Army...

We've gone from Nanny State to Fanny State

Heh

And inexperience isn't treated as much of a downside at all.

There's an obvious reason for this particular bit in regards to Ministerial appointments, and that is that National spent nine long years in opposition, during which many of their previous Ministers retired or were de-elected.

More generally, no Prime…

They actually call one a texta, and textas is plural.... for exactly the same reason someone in NZ might say "Vivid" or "Sharpie" instead of "marker". It is a brand name.

I swear that marker pens always used to be called Vivids, and didn't start to be called Sharpies until…

By sending them some textses?

Wasn't this Bob Clarkson's problem?

I'm happier with John Key steering the ship than I was with Helen Clark.

Sure he's at the helm, but is he steering or adjusting the wheel in accordance with where the ship is currently lurching ? No compass indeed...

According to…

But nothing really changes at the end of the day.

Yes it does. Labour changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders in its time in government by repeatedly raising the minimum wage, re-universalising the public health system (well, almost), introducing working for families, and ensuring that the…

It seems Worth was threatening legal action if the earlier complaint were made public. Typical behaviour for entitled easties, but may have made Mr Eagleson more inclined to half-heartedly pursue his investigations. That and the concerns about the rich vein of blue-blooded party funding drying up, of course.

Because rich…

Will be interesting to see if the minority voices here are loud enough to affect the election process in the fullness of time.

I'm not really passionate about politics or…

He doesn't have a direction, because he's already at his destination. And he desperately wants to be liked. The public (less desperately, but mostly) want to like him.

I agree. I heard Key speak in person the other day.I was waiting for the famous charm and the relationship development with…

Great antennae, no compass.

If I may be allowed to crow....just a little (read the poem not the bit above)

Perhaps it is just Key's misfortune to follow someone as awesome as Helen Clark, and the public has to high an expectation after her reign.

Or not.

Ha. It just shows how bad Key's management of this issue has been. I'm unsure whether it's the fault of Key himself or…

We call em "markers", they call em "texters". Lord knows why.

They actually call one a texta, and textas is plural.... for exactly the same reason someone in NZ might say "Vivid" or "Sharpie" instead of "marker". It is a brand name.

You have to be mildly amazed at the way National has got the "attack the messenger" spin working though. Not just through the National Internet PR Department but actually out into the MSM as well.

And yet none of the usual suspects at Kiwiblog will answer the most basic question:…

said All Black might have to rescind his textses if you didn't get them the first time

I thought this was an instinctive technique applied by rugby players in the scrum, to prevent torsional discomfort (and to allow continued propagation of the species)... or is the phrase retract his testes…

I'm going with 'or not' Tom. You don't have to compare to Clark. Compare Key to…

Labour have got a long way to go with controlling political messaging when something like…

Or not.

So let us celebrate our PM being down with the kids and helping us punch above our weight on the global making up usages around technology stage, rather than getting too snooty about that one.

Nah, I'm going to be a grammar snob and expect our Prime Minister to have…

He doesn't have a direction, because he's…

Of course he could have just taken on some Australian whiteboarding terminology from his advisors. We call em "markers", they call em "texters". Lord knows why.

By sending them some textses?

Precious!
But as I noted over on the Resignation of Caption Worth thread, I believe he (the Prime Mincer) is adopting the modern parlance of referring to telephonic terrorising as Text Torts

yrs
Gloss O' Lalia
but call me Rescindy

directionless, aimless leadership sells us short.

Totally agree. These pollies genuinely seem to think that staying out of the way is enough, and that an unfettered business sector will deliver nirvana – despite the abundant contrary evidence all around us on the world stage. It's tired 90s laissez faire as…

I remain convinced he is principally in this job for the prestige

Rather like those rich fellas who buy football clubs

abramovich

directionless, aimless leadership sells us short.

Absolutely, at least if he was far-right we'd get SOMETHING done :>

I wish we had some local TV satire,

I think the wonderful Ian Dalzell who coined this phrase:

I finally figured out what Pry Mincer Key is saying

should take up political cartooning.

What I ought to add is that I see a threat nonetheless, and it is this: directionless, aimless leadership sells us short. Especially in the present circumstances. How do you develop, or grow or innovate in such a context? Only by good luck.

(which is not to put marketing people down – spinning reality is their job – but…

You have put into words much of what I have been thinking, in my muddled & often incoherent fashion, since the slippery little bugger appeared on the hustings.

I salute you.

I must find out where they are going

By sending them some textses ?