Public Address | Cafe | Island Life: A simple 'your lordship' will do

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 15 May 2008 12:42:49 +1200

I suspect the PM would quite happily let it go. The Labour Ministers have been tagged with it because they were aware of it while it was being investigated and didn't intervene (apparently under legal advice).

The fact that she was appointed (twice?) by lying about her qualifications on National's…

Shep Cheyenne

Thu, 15 May 2008 12:18:14 +1200

It's gotta be a bit of a push & a total waste of time to go after Ms Thompson the ex-Immigration head for fiddling her quals a decade ago for a job she left years before now.

Nothing like the PM to damn an employee hired under the Nat govt.

Named,…

Martha Craig

Mon, 12 May 2008 21:28:11 +1200

I went to a Steiner school as a child, and it took me YEARS to be able to use the terms "Mr" or "Mrs" after that. In fact, I still can't.

When I book planes for the family I use my husband's academic title. It hasn't got us a decent…

Julie Fairey

Mon, 12 May 2008 10:19:36 +1200

A (male) friend of mine who did some supply teaching in London was constantly referred to by his intermediate-age students as "Miss". They had never had a male teacher before and thought Miss was the title you gave all teachers, regardless of gender.

Kerry Annett

Sun, 11 May 2008 00:40:23 +1200

I've been called by my first name at work since I moved to an inner city Wellington School in the mid 80s. In those days it was considered frightfully radical.

When I left to live and teach in London 4 years later I couldn't contemplate being addressed by my students…

Amy Gale

Sat, 10 May 2008 01:32:04 +1200

FletcherB's story about Brigadier Lowe triggers a memory from Primer 1, wherein Mr Wright the Visiting Traffic Officer asked us littlies how one could tell if someone was married.

"Because they're called 'Mr' or 'Mrs'?" I ventured.

Nope, that wasn't it, because people could call themselves whatever they liked. Apparently,…

Shep Cheyenne

Fri, 09 May 2008 19:46:12 +1200

Andrew _ I thought it was part of the right of passage that the next phone call, after Mum, was to the Koru Club to change the title.

Emma – Glad to hear she hasn't changed.

Emma Hart

Fri, 09 May 2008 19:12:37 +1200

Emma – I don't know her 1st name but Mrs Hundleby was at Riccarton Primary.

That's her. She taught my kids in 2000 and 2001. She's choice.

Shep Cheyenne

Fri, 09 May 2008 19:07:13 +1200

So I'm a Dr in Italy – cool.

Of Course their is the Dr & my fave the Master:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hNDwpB9zQI&feature=related

Shep Cheyenne

Fri, 09 May 2008 18:47:31 +1200

Emma – I don't know her 1st name but Mrs Hundleby was at Riccarton Primary.

Deborah

Fri, 09 May 2008 16:36:42 +1200

The Wiki (of course) on the use of the title "Dr".

Deborah

Fri, 09 May 2008 16:32:56 +1200

Whose protocol? "Doctor" was established as a title given to people of higher learning long before it was ever applied to physicians.

And you never know when someone might be having an existential crisis in the middle of a trans-Pacific flight! :-)

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 09 May 2008 16:15:35 +1200

Protocol dictates that it is bad manners for a PhD to refer to themselves as Dr, particularly on planes or in phone books because it may be confusing in a medical emergancy.

Emma Hart

Fri, 09 May 2008 15:51:10 +1200

As a kiddy I had the wonderful Mrs Hundleby

Shep, not June Hundleby?

Shep Cheyenne

Fri, 09 May 2008 15:40:57 +1200

As a kiddy I had the wonderful Mrs Hundleby (not sure of spelling).
Sometimes kiddies get confused and so I had called her, Mrs Bumblebee, Mrs Butterfly, & to my great embarrassment, Mum.

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 09 May 2008 15:31:03 +1200

The lawyer who brought the witness might use 'Dr' lots. Helps build up that impression of authority with the jury.

"Dr Whatshisname, in your expert opinion, is the accused the only person that could have...", "Dr Whatshisname, in your extensive research in this field, is there any other explanation for..."…

Shep Cheyenne

Fri, 09 May 2008 15:20:54 +1200

I don't think Dr would be used for expert witnesses but rather stating that they have a PhD, its field and their experiance in that field.

Deborah

Fri, 09 May 2008 14:43:33 +1200

but it strikes me as a rather pretentious affectation using an academic title outside an academic context

I agree, mostly. There can be non-academic contexts where it might be important, as a means of establishing expertise (expert witness in court, maybe?).

I find it terribly useful when people ask me…

Isabel Hitchings

Fri, 09 May 2008 14:30:38 +1200

My kid's teachers all go by their first names but his school is a bit alternativish and encourages that kind of egalitarianism. There still seems to be a hang of a lot of respect for them though.

We gave the kids hyphenated last names. I like the way it ties…

Shep Cheyenne

Fri, 09 May 2008 12:52:48 +1200

A little rant on inflated egos.

Mike Moore now titles himself (well who else would be worthy enough) as:

"I'm a foundation member of a group of "international worthies" established, like so many such groups, to advance the cause of peace, reconciliation and development."

Who

"... spoke once to a…

Emma Hart

Fri, 09 May 2008 12:44:26 +1200

Anyone interested in a campaign to bring back `Master ' and 'Mistress'?

We did get 'master' printed on the label of a medicine bottle for my small son once. Given my partner and son have the same first initial and surname, I guess it could have saved confusion.

Steve Reeves

Fri, 09 May 2008 12:44:03 +1200

Something I noticed on moving to New Zealand (many, many years ago..) was that vets and dentists here use the "Dr" title! How pretentious is that, we all thought!

Eric Olthwaite

Fri, 09 May 2008 12:40:49 +1200

Anyone interested in a campaign to bring back `Master ' and 'Mistress'?

That's for the youth is it not? I remember the building anticipation of my early teens when I would transform from a "Master" to a "Mister" on my thirteenth birthday.

Graeme Edgeler

Fri, 09 May 2008 12:19:00 +1200

Did anyone pick up on "Miss Alice" aka Rob Moodie PhD got in a huff when the Judges wouldn't use the title Dr and the reasoning behind it?

I was gonna mention that (well, not that, but rather the legal profession approach to titles).

In Court, men introduce themselves without…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 09 May 2008 12:12:14 +1200

Ah, but to lighten things up a bit P.D. James and Ruth Rendell (aka Lady James of Holland Park & Lady Rendell of Balbergh) used to do the occasional charity event for charity under the rubric of 'The Bloody Baronesses". An irresistible evening out, one might think. :)

Leopold

Fri, 09 May 2008 12:05:11 +1200

Anyone interested in a campaign to bring back `Master ' and 'Mistress'?

– Outside the Igor and Herr Dr Frankenstein, and the whips and leather gear niches of society, that is –

None?: Oh well, pity...

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 09 May 2008 11:45:32 +1200

but it strikes me as a rather pretentious affectation using an academic title outside an academic context

Oh yes. People who demand any sort of special title out in the general public tend to look like gits.

Shep Cheyenne

Fri, 09 May 2008 11:36:34 +1200

If you want it as a title you should have to go the whole hog and do the PhD.
.... but it strikes me as a rather pretentious affectation using an academic title outside an academic context.

Good point – Did anyone pick up on "Miss Alice" aka Rob Moodie…

FletcherB

Fri, 09 May 2008 11:23:34 +1200

When I was at primary school, many years ago..... a nice woman came to class once a week to give "religious instruction" to us...

The point is..... none of our parents could figure out the woman's name. It appears, every single child had a different account of what her name…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 09 May 2008 10:53:39 +1200

If you want it as a title you should have to go the whole hog and do the PhD.

Funny that, because I'd go the other way. No disrespect to folks like Michael Cullen and Lockwood Smith — who I'm sure worked damn hard for their doctorates — but it…

Rob Hosking

Fri, 09 May 2008 10:16:23 +1200

But what do you call people when you don't know their name?

Easy. "Mate."

Had a woodwork teacher who was slightly...well, warped, to be frank, but that's another story.... on the first day he came in, glowering (which was his normal attitude) glared at us and said, after a few…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 09 May 2008 10:02:37 +1200

Thanks to my sister who worked there, my Wellington library card had "Captain" as my title, one which I subsequently encouraged people to use, though sadly without much success.

You sir, are the height of cool, but only if you dress appropriate, and go down with the ship.

but I…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 09 May 2008 08:08:16 +1200

Ah, titles. How attached we are to them.

I don't mean to sound like a Young Fogey, but I think my doctor has fraking earned the civility of a honorific, considering she didn't get her medical qualifications (or the rather impressive ladle of alphabet soup after her name) off the…

Amy Gale

Fri, 09 May 2008 05:36:27 +1200

Still, it is rather nice when strangers on the phone call me Miss or Mrs Watson. You take respect where you get it, even if it involves a same-sex marriage and auditory transgenderism. :)

It's also super-awesome as a telemarketing-detector. "Mrs M? Sorry, you have the wrong number. Bye. "…

David Hamilton

Fri, 09 May 2008 01:06:25 +1200

Thanks to my sister who worked there, my Wellington library card had "Captain" as my title, one which I subsequently encouraged people to use, though sadly without much success.

Kimberley Verburg

Fri, 09 May 2008 00:15:33 +1200

When I started volunteering at a primary school, I introduced myself to the kids with my first name, I saw no reason to do anything else. I don't know what the English think of my "informality". The staff are all <surname>. There really doesn't seem to be any difference in… </article> <article> <h1>Jackie Clark</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 22:19:40 +1200</p> Ah, titles. How attached we are to them. At work, and in public kindergartens as a rule, the kids all call their teachers by first name. I would feel a little strange if they called me Mrs Goodison, not to mention that most of them have english as a second… </article> <article> <h1>Susan Snowdon</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:26:53 +1200</p> But what do you call people when you don't know their name? e.g. running after someone who's left their wallet behind. Calling them 'Excuse me' in a loud voice seems so silly. When I was a kid the fish and chip shop lady called everyone 'Dearie' – it worked for… </article> <article> <h1>Robyn Gallagher</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:14:26 +1200</p> <p>* When telemarketers ask to speak to "Mrs Gallagher", I say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I don't actually live with my parents." This usually confuses them.</p><p>* When I was little, I always referred to the Prime Minister at the time as "Mr Muldoon". Then one day my speech and drama…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Eric Olthwaite</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 16:31:48 +1200</p> <p>Apathy Jack, a teaching God who has at his command an army of unwavering 13 to 25 year olds from Greenlane to Otahuhu with a smple text message, requires "Sir" to used.</p><p>To my mind that settles the matter.</p> </article> <article> <h1>Julie Fairey</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 16:28:04 +1200</p> I hear you Paul, I get "ma'am" a lot these days. It seems like just yesterday I was ma'aming and siring myself. </article> <article> <h1>Paul Campbell</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 16:10:31 +1200</p> Living in the US there was a point somewhere around 30ish where I got addressed "sir" a lot more .... it was sad, meant I'd grown old </article> <article> <h1>samuel walker</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 14:29:05 +1200</p> It seems that to me that to many people of my generation anyone <em>requiring</em> to be addressed with a title (mr, mrs, sir) is exhibiting a lack of respect to the addresser. which is an interesting turnaround. Whereas addressing someone by their first name shows that you are relating to… </article> <article> <h1>daleaway</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 14:25:51 +1200</p> <p>I do like tradespeople to use Mrs. <br />It helps keep them humble, and reminds them that I have backup.</p> </article> <article> <h1>James Green</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:37:31 +1200</p> I prefer to just be James, but I do get annoyed by being mistered. On forms I prefer not to check any of the boxes. Most places data entry systems fail to accept this. I sometimes wonder whether I'm going to get grumpy one day and point out the error… </article> <article> <h1>Richard Llewellyn</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 12:57:36 +1200</p> <p>Our neighbour also happens to be a teacher at our kids school. He cheerfully explains to the girls, who call him 'Chris' around the 'hood, that at school, they have to call him 'Mr Smith'. </p><p>Its a distinction that our 6 and 8 year olds have no problem making. But…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Julie Fairey</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 12:37:19 +1200</p> <p>Well I started writing a comment to your excellent post, Sir, but it got too long, so <a href="http://thehandmirror.blogspot.com/2008/05/by-any-other-name.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">I'm shamelessly linking to it at The Hand Mirror instead</a> :-)</p><p>It's quite nice having a unique name, means you can almost guarantee to only get your own self when doing ego searches!…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Shep Cheyenne</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 12:12:02 +1200</p> <p>I only use titles if it's a little funny, like my mate Mr Mann, said in the style of "you da Man".</p><p>All profs & M.D.s are 1st name only. </p><p>A running family joke is the link to nobility and disputes as to whether Baron(ess) or Count(ess) are appropriate. The latter…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Tom Beard</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:48:57 +1200</p> <p>Even "Mr Smith" was unacceptably familiar at my school: it was "Sir", and a detention if you didn't. The more radical teachers were the ones who addressed you by your first name. It wasn't quite "Jones minor! Stop that right now, you horrible little oik!", but it was close.</p><p>In…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Emma Hart</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:42:43 +1200</p> <blockquote><p>My sister spurned the hyphen for her kids, she gave them both "Llewellyn" as a middle name.</p></blockquote><p>We did this too. Only with 'Hart', not Llewellyn, because that would have been odd.</p> </article> <article> <h1>andrew llewellyn</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:34:43 +1200</p> My sister spurned the hyphen for her kids, she gave them both "Llewellyn" as a middle name. </article> <article> <h1>Kyle Matthews</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:26:14 +1200</p> <blockquote><p>Do you own a name if it was "forced" on you by your parents? Feel free to take proper ownership by giving yourself a new first name.</p></blockquote><p>My sister went through some sort of re-evaluation of her name as part of her finding-my-identity stage as an adult. She went from…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Danielle</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:24:20 +1200</p> <blockquote><p>supposedly more laid-back Americans</p></blockquote><p>Americans are often more hierarchical than we are, I think. I called all of my professors in grad school in the USA 'Dr <surname>'. In southern Louisiana, particularly, it's expected that you will call any older adult 'Miss <first name>' or 'Mr <first name>', particularly if they are…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Emma Hart</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:21:11 +1200</p> <blockquote><p>Cold call telemarketers on the other hand still get the reponse "Mr Bloom? he dead", which may get me knocked off their list (I hope)</p></blockquote><p>Excellent, I shall do that the next time someone phones and calls me "Mrs Partner'ssurname". Certainly being asked to be put on Slingshot's do not…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Evan Yates</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:17:15 +1200</p> <p>My friend's son refers to me as "Uncle" as is the Chinese fashion and I like the sound of that. However my actual nephews and neices call me by my first name and I also like that. Admittedly the blood rellies are almost adults.</p><p>And, Kim</p><blockquote><p>After all, the only…</p></blockquote> </article> <article> <h1>Paul Campbell</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:08:28 +1200</p> <p>Everyone in my wife's family has Phds – using formal titles would be confusing </p><p>Having a unique name is IMHO a good thing: A few years ago while living in San Francisco my wife started receiving mail for another "Lisa Levitt", we got phone calls too "is that Lisa Levitt?…</p> </article> <article> <h1>B Jones</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:05:32 +1200</p> <p>Is it just me, or does anyone else get the sense that referring to someone by their first name when you don't need to ("Thanks, Bob" as opposed to just "Thanks") has a bit of a superior to inferior tone? </p><p>I noticed it when a 4 year old I know…</p> </article> <article> <h1>andrew llewellyn</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:03:52 +1200</p> <blockquote><p>(Wilson is my father's surname.)</p></blockquote><p>Wow – interesting. And "Wilson" was (presumably) his father's surname. None of us really "own" our surname.</p><p>My brother in law seriously considered taking his wife's surname (never having known his father who abandoned him, he felt no connection with the guy). </p><p>Only thing that…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Leopold</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:03:09 +1200</p> <p>O Tempora, o mores!</p><p>And I am so used to "I am Leo Bloom, but you may call me Sir*."</p><p>It may be hopelessly old-fashioned but I prefer a Mr approach from a complete stranger** rather than the slimy first-name approach of a salesman who dosent know you from a…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Kim Wilson</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:58:42 +1200</p> <p>I had an uncomfortable bit of a while when meeting my partner's nephews for the first time. They all address their grandparents and other adults by their first names. It took a bit of getting used to.</p><p>In my family, everyone has always had a title (when quite small, for…</p> </article> <article> <h1>andrew llewellyn</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:49:01 +1200</p> <blockquote><p>Not only are we deeply saddened by the fact that our very own Nathanial Pipe-Blower [<strong>Tzar and 33rd degree Grand Wizard master of the first Inverted Pancake lodge of the totally Awesome Flat Earth Society Ltd</strong>]</p></blockquote><p>Damn, there's a title to covet.</p> </article> <article> <h1>Joanna</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:48:40 +1200</p> <p>One of the reasons that I liked Onslow College was that we had a mix of teachers on first name basis and last name basis, it just depended on their personality. </p><p>I'm so glad not to be in the phone book anymore so that now I don't have flatmates disturbing…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Paul Campbell</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:41:36 +1200</p> <p>My wife and I have different last names – telemarketers who address me as "'Mr Levitt?" get the "he doesn't live here any more, I kicked him out when I moved in" response – floors them every time</p><p>I too had a friend who talked of his parents by their…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Shep Cheyenne</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:35:35 +1200</p> Family friend is officially "Mr" she has an M.D. and now as a surgeon qualifies for a gender reasignment by proxy. </article> <article> <h1>Shep Cheyenne</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:32:27 +1200</p> <p>I asked my uncle when I was knee high... if he wants me to call him Uncle...? He said I'm not gonna call you nephew..., so don't worry.<br />Furthermore as a kid I ran around with a few Quakers who had a dislike for any titles.<br />Then there is the…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Deborah</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:25:39 +1200</p> <p>I always feel a little shocked when telemarketers et al address me as "Mrs <last name>". I didn't change my name n marriage, so "Mrs <last name>" sounds like my mother to me.</p><p>I prefer not to use a title at all, but for those occasions when one really is required, I…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Craig Ranapia</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:14:59 +1200</p> <p>I still find it rather weird that my partner's grand-neice and nephew call me 'Uncle Craig' which is bloody ageing.</p><p>My foster brother and his wife are in the process of adopting, and what's the proper honorific for that relationship: Foster uncle? That horrible man who keeps threatening to set…</p> </article> <article> <h1>Public Address</h1> <p>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:14:59 +1200</p> <p>Discussion from blog post.</p> </article> </main></body></html>