"Fire Service chief executive national commander Mike Hall said the actual number of fires started by fireworks would not be known for a few days, but it was expected to top last year's record of 700 over the 10-day sale period.

Total fires over…

I reckon fireworks are relatively a lot cheaper than they used to be when we were kids, and teenagers have more disposable income than we did. And because they're cheap, we waste them, and experiment with them, and so on. That's why Yamis'…

teenagers at a family party

So where were their parents? For that matter, where were you? You just watched this and said nothing?

There's part of the problem right there.

You know I just don't think Hamish is right.

Hey, you actually read the comments and added something rational and on topic – so I can't complain!

Last night I watched a bunch of teenagers at a family party pimp a box of fireworks – as in open them up…

Ban them I say.

So what exactly causes people to be innovative? Genuine question.

I work in an industry where if you actually look at what people do day to day they are incredibly innovative. Thinking laterally developing alternative solutions to problems and in…

We're not talking scrapped knees in the playground though are we? You don't just learn what your limits are if things go wrong with fireworks, you end up seriously burnt, or blind, or starting a fire.

Actually I don't think that's entirely true. Most accidents with fireworks just scare the…

I'm wondering how many kids were asked? ;)

Apparently a firefighter called the B and said that the vast majority of their callouts to Guy fawkes incidents required no action – the bonfire or whatever was under control.

High rise buildings with automatic alarms also generate large numbers of fire callouts -…

We as kids certainly always sought out the most dangerous fireworks/bangers that we could find, taped them together, pointed them at each other etc. It was dangerous,mostly because we knew…

The problem of course is there are both morons and evil people out there. So how do you stop them doing stupid stuff.

Give them LPG and cigarettes and let Darwin sort it out.

And I think that's the real problem – like every other moral panic, the problem's always THEM never us, isn't it?

Exactly.

It didn't make the camp any…

Or shall we go with a bogus "thin end of the wedge" argument

We're talking about all of the proposals that are getting publicity at the moment: raising the drinking age, banning party pills, forcing employers to remove unhealthy food vending machines, banning fireworks... I could go on. It's not…

The banning of many hazardous things affects everyone. The cost of banning fireworks? People don't get to ooh and ahh at the pretty shiny bangy things in…

The idea is that host responsibility precludes excess drinking to intoxication

Reece, I'll just quote you again "I had many years experience in hospo ... and saw lots of really dumb stuff mostly perpetrated by teenagers". So again, I say that your proposal to raise the drinking age for off-licenses…

Of course we legislate against natural selection. That's why you can't just throw your newborn baby onto the street to have it fend for itself. Natural selection, sure, but as a society we've decided that children need to…

If a nanny state is one that takes responsibility for those of its citizens…

Missed the point hamish, The idea is that host responsibility precludes excess drinking to intoxication and thereby less bad effects on an unsuspecting joe (or jolene) public. This assumes that licensees…

Has anyone been having issues with bandwidth since teleclown 'unleashed' broadband speeds?

If you're not a Telescum customer and you're in a high uptake area then yes, you probably will see slowdown. Xtra customers ultimately get priority at the exchange but you didn't see it when everyone was throttled down.…

I think learning some things by making mistakes is good but to suggest that I might extend that idea to also think we shouldn't help those who've made serious fianacial mistakes and now need the communitys' (governments') help is a little harsh.

You're quite right, and I wasn't…

But I would ban fireworks just so my next door neighbours couldn't keep me up for three days with them....

Actually, I have another idea... why donm't we ban your neighbours (and their ilk) instead?

So it is…

Speaking as someone who has been known to express a deep affection for the nanny state (although usually as it applies to welfare; the same attitude which wants kids to learn through hurting themselves is IMO easily extracted to the mindset that wants…

50 years ago we'd recently had a major war that ended in 30 million dead and nukes being used for the first time. Russia and America had thousands of said nukes and the propensity to use them. Most countries suffered…

Would it eliminate the morons?

Well, if you consider that the morons will probably get hold of the louder, bigger, flashier, better etc etc fireworks, it might just do the trick after all...

The film cannister trick was a big one for us; that and destroying whatever remnant toys were…

True, with caveat that adrenaline/endorphin junkies are a small percentage of total.. the majority are unaddicted people who simply enjoy and pursue the feeling/response.

I think that there IS more stupidity and evil about. The rise in "troubled" families is one cause. But another might paradoxically be this very policy of risk reduction.

I've been reading recently that childhood scrapes and mishaps are necessary for children to…

Seems to me there is a basic human attraction towards exposure to danger (for many)...

Yup fear has a number of physiological effects one of which for many people is the release of endorphins. Endorphins are natural painkillers very similar in their effects to the opiates. Or in others words…

]]> Fri, 03 Nov 2006 12:36:58 +1300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/if-the-straitjacket-fits/?p=206#post206 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/if-the-straitjacket-fits/?p=206#post206 Fireworks are great, but not as immediate as filling a vacuum cleaner hose with gas from the school bunsen burner taps and blowing through it whilst holding a match to the other end.. mmm adult hindsight is a goose-bump inducing thing..

A number of problems with the �nanny-state� thing:
-…

]]> Fri, 03 Nov 2006 11:56:16 +1300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/if-the-straitjacket-fits/?p=189#post189 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/if-the-straitjacket-fits/?p=189#post189

But a couple of years ago the son of a friend of my mother blew his hand off trying to make a super bomb using gunpowder from fireworks (stupid).

. . . yeah. I don't mean to agree with havoc here (sic.), but I'm in the science trade too --…

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7604

Comments?

Craig Y.

The problem of course is there are…

The drinking age in Japan is 20, but there are beer vending machines everywhere, with no supervision – yet underage drinking isn't a problem.

(Overage drinking can be, though, when your retirement-age colleagues get…

Heh heh – sorry – but why is letting them off in the day fun?

Because they still go bang, and scare the bejeesus out of anyone in the vicinity.

As for the connexion between fireworks and entrepreneurialism, my best friend & I used to get up to all sorts of…

Agree with all the rest – although hangovers are starting to outweigh the fun of getting horribly drunk these days.

Does that mean the Japanese must be anti-entreprenuerial and risk-averse?

Well, yes. The Japanese were famous for their cradle to the grave corporate culture – not exactly condusive to thinking outside the square.

...I think we're all agreed that we're dealing with morons.

I don't agree... sorry, I'm not trying…

I really want a pervert stick now, too.

When I was a kid, it was okay to throw a mattress in the back of a station wagon and let the kids sleep on it during long trips. There were no…

Call me a pedant, but I cannot see any necessary connexion between fireworks and entrepreneurial flair.

You rationalists are so ... rational ...

long before that Westie movie whose name I can't recall

Savage Honeymoon! And didn't the gas bottle on the barbie scene result in it getting a stricter than expected rating?

I'm pretty sure this is a big part of Wayne Mapp's anti-political correctness campaign

I've always considered that his campaign is the most 'politically correct" of all & he's obfuscating by putting the "anti" in front of it.

What I don't understand is people who let fireworks off in daylight

Me…

Perhaps they're being let off by people who do not like to be told what to do.…

I'm pretty sure this is a big part of Wayne Mapp's anti-political correctness campaign – over-regulation of our lives – children getting hurt in lolly scrambles – unaccompanied minors not to sit near men on aeroplanes – not keeping score during…

City and district councils of every stripe lined up to ban alcohol consumption in public spaces (especially the…

I'm not suggestig anyone try this at home, but holy fuck, it's impressive.

I think Anne's right, especially since the Latest Scientific Research (TM) tends to suggest that the teenage brain is still…

Mind you, that kid who decided to have a smoke while he was sniffing kerosene was probably unlikely to be one of the future movers and shakers.

Are you referring to the 5 teenagers in Blenheim, one of whom died, who were inhaling from a BBQ LPG cylinder in the…

Has banning Murder stopped murders?

There is a Simpsons episode for every social commentary.

Is there anywhere in NZ that sells bangers? I will pay good money.…

Call me a pedant, but I cannot see any necessary connexion between fireworks and entrepreneurial flair.

No, but I consider it a symptom of the changing mindset around here.

Mind you,…

we used pvc pipes as rocket launchers and had neighbourhood wars. when he got cars they automatically became 'tanks'. scaring the piss out of the elderly by yelling 'nazis!' and firing at them was the order of the day.

and, if you've noticed…

As for kids & live venues, our 14 year old attended an Odessa gig the other night at the San Francisco Bath House (once we'd persuaded the Mrs that it was no longer a massage parlour),

Even when it was a massage parlour it was a cool place to go as…

They still barely rise a foot.

And yeah, I can remember taping loads of thunderbangers together, twisting the wicks together & we'd play handgrenades at each other...

and the skyrocket battles with the…

...the fireworks seem to be crap compared to what they were

Probably because we already banned all the good stuff years ago (under a National government, if I'm not mistaken).

There are a couple of kids next door that hang around in the street playing games after school. I catch…

Partly it's because some people seem a lot less responsible than we were (and we were pretty irresponsible – so that may be just my perception) and the fireworks seem to be crap compared to what they were (might also be my perception).

I fear your memory might be faulty…

Partly it's because some people seem a lot less responsible than we were (and we were pretty irresponsible – so that may be just my perception) and the fireworks seem to be crap compared to what they were (might also…

Is there some method to this? There does seem to be an effort by Labour to balance its second-term social liberalism (civil unions, prostitution) with some good old-fashioned conservatism,…

The bungee jumping, vodka producing, tractor-driving-to-the-South-Pole people are…

Strike one for not reading the invite properly. Cheers Russel!

De nada. Saved me thinking up a topic ...

When we have the other glitches ironed out I'll get the guys to create a "suggest a topic" button.

Are we trading our innovative edge – that spirit of risk and adventure that sends us on our OE's…