Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: You down with TPP?

Ben Austin

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:08:20 +1300

Ian , surely five envelopes is a little excessive for an austerity Christmas?

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:59:15 +1300

I have yet to see any sort of clearly explained cost/benefits explanation from the government on the TPP.
...with that in mind I have a special christmas present for the National Government, especially Tim Groser and Bill English – more envelopes to work stuff out on the back of...
(recycled…

Ben Austin

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:05:14 +1300

I have yet to see any sort of clearly explained cost/benefits explanation from the government on the TPP. I'm not talking about general "it will be good for X or Y industry" explanations, but instead one that specifies sector by sector benefits (dollar value), with the "working" shown.

Until I…

Geoff Lealand

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 15:32:36 +1300

This morning's debate on Media 3, with Fran O'Sullivan and Bernard Hickey, was very instructive and a reminder to other areas of NZ media that they should be paying more attention to the possible ramifications of TTP.

Chris Waugh

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 15:00:01 +1300

Then we’d be able to compete as a provider of quality product

We already do that – trust me, the ads play up “clean, green, quality, safe” big time.

Or instead of commodities like powdered milk, we could sell premium items like cheese and yoghurt

We already do that too.…

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:27:07 +1300

Or instead of commodities like powdered milk, we could sell premium items like cheese and yoghurt, where the quality or lack of is self evident.

(We could start by having reasonably priced premium cheese in our home market).

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:25:27 +1300

Wouldn't it be better, rather than trying to sue people for ripping off brands or whatever, for China to have better regulation of food quality? Then we'd be able to compete as a provider of quality product rather than the only people allowed to draw an anchor on the packet.

Chris Waugh

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:19:21 +1300

Bejing to protect our IP

Except that that's only part of the problem. There's plenty the NZ government could be doing to clean the industry up in NZ. But no, the Market will sort everything out...

...by refusing to take our produce because we let cowboys ruin our reputation.

Bruce Hitcchcock

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 08:27:57 +1300

Hi Chris, Couldn't argee more! Synlait, amoungst others have invested a lot of time and money into the Chinese baby formula market in particular and our Government should be putting all the pressure it can on Bejing to protect our IP. If both countries signed a stringent HAACP agreement I…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 14 Dec 2012 06:35:35 +1300

Scrooge, bullies and parasites...
...the unwanted Christmas relative.
I see the US as the cuckoo in the nest, after they elbowed their way into the original P4 group, and then effectively took it over and started calling the shots, while locking it down, and salting the earth, with their standard…

81stcolumn

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:46:29 +1300

In matters of trade and diplomacy America has always appeared (to me) to behave like the unwanted Christmas relative. Everyone is special when a good nosh is at stake. There is no shortage of special relationships as there is no shortage of loved and neglected relatives. What annoys me most…

Sacha

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:55:13 +1300

Reading that piece from Rod

Wish I could. Either distant and tiny or close-up and blockily unreadable on my screen. Here come the paywalls I guess. Or visits to te Library.

Lucy Stewart

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:59:50 +1300

State Legislatures in US will not be bound by many of its requirements and can continue to offer disproportionate incentives and subsidies for industries and companies to come to their state to set up business.

This particular facet of the US set-up ends up disadvantaging the US as a whole…

Allan Moyle

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:11:18 +1300

Reading that piece from Rod makes me think of John Key and Tim Groser as the trade agreement equivalent of "Dumb and Dumber"

Allan Moyle

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:06:11 +1300

One thing that has been seriously overlooked in the TPP discussions is that this will be a deal – if it comes to pass – with the US Federal Govt. State Legislatures in US will not be bound by many of its requirements and can continue to offer disproportionate incentives…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:03:47 +1300

Ursa the working classes...
But to be on the safe side, people will always fearfully populate their mind with the biggest, baddest bear imaginable.
...and thereafter live with the stench of dead and rotting rabbits...

Kumara Republic

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:48:49 +1300

I think the secrecy is exactly why there has been little to no mainstream media/public interest. Hard to get people interested in something which might be happening, but we aren’t sure what it might be…

If only John Hartevelt had the same fervour towards the TPPA as he did on…

Lyndon Hood

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:18:18 +1300

The thing about the TPP is we are all whistling in the dark

Well, there’s been a fair quantiy of draft-leaking, and countries have varying degrees of openness about the current agreement and their negotiating position. That said, my impression of the drafts is they are a big pile of…

Juliet Hamill

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:15:35 +1300

I think the secrecy is exactly why there has been little to no mainstream media/public interest. Hard to get people interested in something which might be happening, but we aren't sure what it might be...

Tom Semmens

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:17:50 +1300

The thing about the TPP is we are all whistling in the dark, because the whole thing is shrouded in the most ridiculous and undemocratic secrecy. The sort of secrecy usually only invoked in this country because the state has got something to hide (your honour, the prosecution gives you…

Stephen Judd

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:30:54 +1300

exactly what the benefit and purpose of “Stuff Nation” is totally eludes me

Sharing the op ed megaphone with citizens who aren't professional writers, in a much longer format than letters to the editor? Not an unworthy goal, I would have thought. (Disclaimer: the technical side of Stuff is a…

Gabor Toth

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:04:07 +1300

Rod Oram's recent SST column was rather interesting about the agricultural/dairy access to the USA. (No link as I can't unscramble Fairax's Stuff site.)

Press Display folks.
Most municipal and university libraries subscribe to it and offer free access to library card holders. Go to your local library's website and…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:12:17 +1300

all deffuts....
Edit: That site is sooo broken
Stuff was always going to be a bad brand name
for Fairfax to hang their hat on...
as it stands it is stuffed full of old stuff,
repeated links to the same stuff
and you're stuffed if you're looking for
the good…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:57:36 +1300

Once again, this Crikey column on the Aussie experience comes to mind. Even the strongest military allegiance couldn't get Aussie produce unrestricted access to the US market:

__So America instantly gets 99 percent tariff free access to Australia, and in 2022 we get to sell them some cattle (I prefer…

nzlemming

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 21:51:16 +1300

Ah, well, whole different game, then.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 21:21:22 +1300

not relevant

Though if the TPPA does come into force and we continue to allow cowboy operators in the dairy industry who see potential new markets opening up....

nzlemming

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:59:07 +1300

IP is all about reputation and value premiums, so highly relevant if we trade that off for last century's priorities.

China is not a party to the TPPA so Chris is right – not relevant ;-)

Sacha

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:19:39 +1300

Not relevant to the TPPA, of course

IP is all about reputation and value premiums, so highly relevant if we trade that off for last century's priorities.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 17:55:42 +1300

My non-lawyer understanding is that it is illegal for anybody who is not a registered dairy exporter to export dairy products from NZ, that's including posting a couple of cans to friends or relatives overseas. So the grey market is a darker shade of grey than most equivalents. I've seen…

nzlemming

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 17:32:36 +1300

Rod Oram's recent SST column was rather interesting about the agricultural/dairy access to the USA. (No link as I can't unscramble Fairax's Stuff site.)

One of these ones?

Edit: That site is sooo broken

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:46:08 +1300

I think most of our milk (powder) exports to China still go in bulk to those untrusted local companies who package and sell it. I think you're referring to a small grey market of NZ domestic product that sells at a premium, but ISTR those exports are technically illegal.

But…

Paul Williams

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:58:41 +1300

O'Sullivan seems to have an oddly naive belief in this area which is at odds with her normal skepticism.

Confirmation bias is, I believe, a partial explanation.

Stephen Judd

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:41:51 +1300

I hope you'll tweak Fran O'Sullivan about this column, in which she seems perplexed that the majority of voices in the academic world are opposed to the TPPA.

What I think she really hasn't got is that while many business academics might be in favour of trade liberalisation, it doesn't follow…

Luke Williamson

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:33:40 +1300

This is one of those issue where no matter how much I read about it (and I know I should cos it sounds bloody dangerous – or not), I can’t seem to get any sensible grasp on what is really involved . Every aspect being discussed seems to be ‘open…

Dave Chowdhury

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:54:30 +1300

Kelsey is too strident and, dare I say it, academic. Hickey will do a good job.

Steve Withers

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:31:46 +1300

Craig: We can’t have any real visibility of any conflicts of interest given we don’t know what has been negotiated (or – really – by whom). I particularly do not trust the National Party. They were gungho to whore the lives of Kiwis in the invasion of Iraq in 2003…

Steve Withers

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:25:47 +1300

I'm with Gareth Morgan on this one.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:11:08 +1300

people buy our milk powder because

they have absolutely no faith in their own country's dairy companies and Western companies generally and New Zealand in particular have a reputation for producing safe, clean, quality product and not playing fast and loose with health, safety and nutritional regulations. But there are…

Paul Williams

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:12:56 +1300

FWIW, from the other side of the ditch, the Australian Council of Trade Unions is "highly concerned at the direction of the agreement." From their media release, this quote from NZCTU's Bill Rosenbery:

Many of the proposals would undermine good, well-paid jobs, public services, affordable medicines and public health, and…

Graham Dunster

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:05:00 +1300

Rod Oram's recent SST column was rather interesting about the agricultural/dairy access to the USA. (No link as I can't unscramble Fairax's Stuff site.)

Sacha

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:42:53 +1300

For a good understanding, I recommend the Auditor General's historic report into Hawkes Bay District Health Board.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:37:46 +1300

I'm hearing a lot of allegations of conflict of interest being thrown around, and I'm not entirely sure it means what some people think it means.

Sacha

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:27:58 +1300

To be fair, Fran O'Sullivan also has a non-journalistic interest with her involvement in the US-NZ Trade Council and associated cheerleading.

Richard Grevers

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:27:42 +1300

I've been astonished at the roaring silence from the Maori party (and Maori MPs in general with the exception of Hone Harawira) on the TPPA. Surely this looks like being the biggest undermining of te Tririti o Waitangi since, oh, November 5th 1881?

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:24:51 +1300

I think you’d have been better off getting Jane Kelsey instead of Bernard Hickey.

But we don't have Tim Groser either. We're a media show — hence, two journalists discussing coverage.

Dave Waugh

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:13:03 +1300

I think you'd have been better off getting Jane Kelsey instead of Bernard Hickey.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:52:45 +1300

You know, in many businesses over 30+ years, I've *never* come across an instance where having a free trade agreement has helped make a sale. Sure, it became much easier to sell inside Europe once the Single European Market came in, but that's a total abolition of customs backed by…

Sacha

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:49:07 +1300

Gordon Campbell is cutting about NZ's embarrassing knicker-waving to the US in the TPP negotiations.

Another article notes the potentially conflicted interests of the Minister in charge of negotiating on our behalf.

Groser seemed pretty confident in his Inside US Trade interview that he can both please the Americans, and…

Stewart

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:43:24 +1300

Once again our economic and sovereign independence is being sold from under us by stealth by the National Party government.

They are seriously pissing me off.

Bart Janssen

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:33:14 +1300

In its early days the TPP seemed to be a cooperative agreement between some countries. Its intent seemed to be pretty much to work out the things that would be mutually beneficial and do those. Where issues would benefit one party and harm the other they were set aside from…

LIISA

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:31:15 +1300

Susan Chalmers – Internet New Zealand policy lead – discusses copyright ramifications of the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations w. Eva Radich on RNZ Concert's Upbeat – might be of interest?

BenWilson

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:02:21 +1300

Sounds like you've brewed the perfect scrap. Sorely tempted to put the kids in care to watch this one live.

Public Address

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:02:21 +1300

Discussion from blog post.