(fervently hopes so-)

NEVER go to this site.

And make sure you never ever load anything from JW

Paranoid belief systems like the one behind EVP is just Gnosticism by another name; ditto, the simulation argument

Ditto certain aspects of theosophy and scientology. And inevitably, of course, it all goes back to Hitler.

Paranoid belief systems like the one behind EVP is just Gnosticism by another name

Do I get to plug Erik Davis' new book twice in the same thread? Joy!

If we're all being manipulated in the manner outlined above – we're all in a giant movie, and those manipulating us have these amazing powers – powers to manipulate reality in ways we can barely begin to comprehend....

...How is it that The Great Celestial Editor didn't leave you on…

Think of the Earth as a gigantic movie set. The directors of the movie have the most sophisticated technologies we could ever imagine to create the great movie here....

...The directors can flip the action forward and into the past. They can stop action, take out players and replace them…

That's right folks — the fact that you find something particularly ridiculous is proof that it's true!

Indeed. The syllogism is:
All (important, world-changing) truth is (initially) ridiculed.
This belief is ridiculed.
Therefore, this belief is (important, world-changing) truth. QED.

Or, to put it in another way:
p, therefore q.…

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. --Arthur Schopenhauer

As I write this, I can see a plate on my desk.

Ridicule or violently oppose that. I dare you. It's true though.

Incidentally (paging Emma Hart, paging Emma Hart) Schopenhauer wrote in 1830 a treatise on the art of trolling and of winning conversations that puts derailing for dummies to considerable shame. It ought to be read and discussed more.

Wow you guys feel so strongly opposed, interesting.

That's right folks — the fact that you find something particularly ridiculous is proof that it's true!

EVP Reverse Speaking's Peggy Kane on Afghanistan:

This person is using valuable oxygen that could be used for... fluffy bunnies or something.

She knows the Truman Show wasn't real right?

Think of the Earth as a gigantic movie set. The directors of the movie, the reptilians, had and to a small extent, still have, the most sophisticated technologies we could ever imagine to create the great movie here. The people of Earth are…

We all know exactly what is happening and we are all desperately trying to tell ourselves.

Quite touching.

Reverse speaking and EVP combined, have given me a glimpse into a part of the mind that was shut down thousands of years ago by an alien race who have been manipulating humanity ever since.

Bankers have been around for only six hundred years so there's a mistake right there.

Not into conspiracy theory much

Your profile website would suggest otherwise:

Humanity has been blamed for the mess here on Earth. The true puppet masters remain hidden. Their manipulations have caused this situation, yet most don’t even know they exist. Our suffering is calculated and it serves them. This reptilian…

this interesting article looks like good science to me

Without wanting to be too harsh about it, it looks like more of the usual unsubstantiated bullshit to me.

There are a lot of statements in that article that are presented as absolute fact, with no reference to back them up.…

Nick, while you're here, do you understand how Rodney Hide's plans for local government fit together, long term? Seriously.

I have a fair idea. Of course the Auckland restructuring and then local government in general are different beasts but with the same body.

Rodney's views haven't changed much over the…

Regarding the "9/11" Truth movement, I always thought Matt Taibbi summed up the trouble with their argument:

The people who really run America don't send the likes of George Bush and Dick Cheney to…

"The sun rotates around the earth" was once a "vastly more likely and widely supported... explanation."

Yup, and one with no compelling reason for the average beet-growing peasant to disbelieve it, until a credible alternative explanation arrived backed by devastating evidence.

If you're faced with accepting or rejecting a theory…

What I meant was that to dismiss without weighing evidence is no better than to accept without weighing evidence.

Even in the face of vastly more likely and widely supported alternative explanations?

I remember hearing somewhere that the scale of required payoffs to hush up a mooted 9/11 demolition would…

I disbelive your denial unless you can produce evidence.

What I meant was that to dismiss without weighing evidence is no better than to accept without weighing evidence.

(Although I am sure there's a certain style of argumentation that is common to the nuttier type of conspiracy theories, it's the nutty part that's of interest, not the conspiracy part. Why nutters are attracted to conspiracies is interesting, and…

there's the conspiracy to invade Iraq, the conspiracy to overthrow Allende, the conspiracy to overthrow Castro, etc etc.

The difference being that there is hard evidence to support these: minutes of meetings that get unearthed in archives, people prepared to go on the record to state what they saw and…

(Say, Lysenkoism.)

I agree, but when a Conspiracy Theory challenges a widely-accepted and argued for Official Theory, it is up the Conspiracy Theorist to do the work.

But that isn't a matter of conspiracy or otherwise, but a matter of generally preferring bodies of evidence to not much evidence. I am also…

I also don't really think that the conspiracy theorists do have to prove that their conspiracy is correct to be of interest, because merely disproving the official theory is actually very very important. See again the Show Trials.

I agree, but when a Conspiracy Theory challenges a widely-accepted and argued…

if you just need the suggestion of malevolent plotting going on in secret to then make the move to assert that whatever is happening, it's due to a Conspiracy, then the world will look quite different to those who might cite Hanlon's Razor instead.

The thing is, there's malevolent plotting…

There does seem to be some indication that the US Air Force deliberately manipulated some UFO propaganda to create an air of plausible deniability for sightings of (then) classified aircraft. And yes, some political Conspiracy Theorists sometimes muse that wacky Conspiracy Theories are deliberate noise, designed as disinformation which…

I wonder if anyone's ever suggested that all the really out-there conspiracy theories are part of huge plot by the international banking cartel to discredit,…

I think there is a problem in that while literally understood, a conspiracy theory is merely a theory which explains things by pointing to a conspiracy, the most common examples are wacky conspiracy theories. Wacky…

Much of what is ascribed to government/capitalist/you name it conspiracies can be put down to this particular principle, I feel.

Actually, I'm reminded of Naomi Klein's last opus, The Shock Doctrine, which…

I also like Holmes' theorem: "when one…

Please do tell me what was the ad hominem remark in my comments on your post. Because there wasn't one. But perhaps I have an Agenda to deny that I was making such an attack.

(Avoiding discussing the original issue, which was covered off in the article I…

we do check candidates credentials.

Something like:

1. Are you engaged, or do you plan to engage, in large scale theft of public money?

I hope we have none but we don't check members "credentials." And yes, we do check candidates credentials.

Thanks, Nick. I actually appreciate the good-faith answer to my snarky question.

There is one? Kewl!

I give you Nomad Codes. (Well, not literally. You're going to have to buy it yourself.)

So believing that the US government is engaged in nefarious secret activities isn't at…

B: There is one? Shit! Just when I get my credit card account under control!

It all relates to my PhD, you see.

How excited are you about the new Erik Davis book, on a scale of one to ten?

Gawd. I just finished reading that last week! I don't especially recommend it. Godwin's a classic "rogue professor," and he has a certain gift, both here and in the Theosophical Enlightenment ,for making the esoteric seem really, really dull.

Too late.

I had to read some Frances Yates to recover.…

Be afraid, be very afraid

Seconded.

But while we have you — is there anyone else in Act whose alarming anti-Semitic beliefs we should know about?

I hope we have none but we don't check members "credentials." And yes, we do check candidates credentials.

Although if someone presents an argument in a wacky accent claiming they come from the Moon, surely that's fair game?

Be afraid, be very afraid...

Although dismissing someone outright as an idiot because of their accent or geographical location isn't my style.

Yeah, sorry. That wasn't really meant to be a swipe at you. Your post just allowed me a jumping-off point for aimless musing. :)

I know that Russell doesn't want this discussion going any further,

Totally up for discussion of conspiracy theories etc, just not for the thread to derail into relitigating certain actual claims. Definitely enjoying where it's going now.

As an aside, I was surprised – and then not surprised – to find that Joscelyn Godwin, who had translated the intricate mannerist allegory, the Hypnerotomachia , also wrote a study of fringe science/conspiracies, Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival .

Gawd. I just finished reading…

Joscelyn Godwin

Goodness – any relation of Mike?

I feel very sorry for all the progressive people I know in southern states. It must be tiring.

Point taken.

Although dismissing someone outright as an idiot because of their accent or geographical location isn't my style.

Welcome to the world of my PhD thesis.

Looks fascinating.

As an aside, I was surprised – and then not surprised – to find that Joscelyn Godwin, who had translated the intricate mannerist allegory, the Hypnerotomachia , also wrote a study of fringe science/conspiracies, __Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science,…

Yee haw!

I feel very sorry for all the progressive people I know in southern states. It must be tiring.

ETA: I mean, tiring to be outnumbered by idiots two to one where they live, and then dismissed outright *as* idiots by people who live anywhere else.

Yee haw!

reinvigorated the Confederacy

This is where I note that the recent survey in which 18% of conservatives believed Obama to actually *be the Antichrist* was taken in... New Jersey. This is not solely a 'Confederacy' problem (although they certainly have some great background context to work with).

I'd admit that there are real conspiracies, but the fact that conspiracy A exists is not in any way proof that Conspiracy B exists. A causal link has to be demonstrated, otherwise it remains only a non sequitur.

Welcome to the world of my PhD thesis. That's actually one…

Most genuine conspiracies have been simple, complicated only by their botch-ups.

Simplicity is, well, simple. Complexity is not. Complexity tends to involve increasing numbers of people, and I think it was Benjamin Franklin who observed that "Two people can keep a secret. If one of them is dead." Eventually you…

You mean, even the one about the network of Islamic fundamentalists spanning from a cave in the Hindu Kush to Hamburg to a flight school in Florida?

'cause I thought that was a pretty far-fetched conspiracy, were it not for the actually happening part.

Man, I skim-read that and instantly…

I do think its interesting just how much goalpost shifting goes on in mere Conspiracy Theorising

It's very hard to be in a debate where the automatic response to any evidence contrary to the opposition's position is "That's what they want you to think." If counter evidence is simply evidence…

you posit a grand Conspiracy, your grand Conspiracy gets shown to be unlikely or even impossible, so you focus on some related matter, hoping to claw back the debate

One definition of a conspiracy theorist is some who claims that it will rain because of an insidious conspiracy and when…

'cause I thought that was a pretty far-fetched conspiracy, were it not for the actually happening part.

Yes, I believe HORansome could confirm that theorising a conspiracy doesn't mean being necessarily wrong. And of course Occam's razor doesn't apply to human affairs – sometimes the most far fetched explanation is…

any conspiracy theory

You mean, even the one about the network of Islamic fundamentalists spanning from a cave in the Hindu Kush to Hamburg to a flight school in Florida?

'cause I thought that was a pretty far-fetched conspiracy, were it not for the actually happening part.

(Also, the Bush…

If by 'whole service only on telecom' they mean that partial service (ie. the EPG) is still available via other ISPs they've done a lousy job of communicating it.

That is what they mean, and yes they have.

We know that many of you have been patiently waiting for TiVo to arrive in New Zealand, having registered with us as early as March this year.

One…

Basically, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), along with Bank of America Corp (BOA), went along to he Court — a la Kang and Kodos — and wanted his Honour to rubber stamp…

the "evidence" offered by Popular Mechanics regarding WTC7 is hardly convincing. but, as you say, any questioning of the very flimsy "evidence" offered as an official explanation is an automatic FAIL because, well, such questioning is, by its very nature, nutty.

It is *possible* there is more to 9/11 than…

oh, and HORansome, isn't relying on Wikipedia as your primary (sole?) source of information considered a FAIL?

Actually Stephen, he studies this stuff. The theories, I mean.

But I have to echo TracyMac. Not here, please.

Other than logically thinking about the destabilising weight of a large plane crashing into the building, the pancake effect of floors crashing down on each…

edited to say...
AND THERE'S AN EDIT BUTTON!

Richard Gage is talking in Wellington in November. Get your tinfoil now, because I expect a shortage in the Wellington region.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiSinlcBfkk

During the campaign Obama himself traced it back to kindergarten, when he was encouraged to share his toys with the other children.

Maestro, I seek permission to use this epithet regularly and with attribution.

The sadder thing is that what occurs in the…

It still has flaws of course – limiting the scope of who can make full use of the advanced features for no apparent benefit? As Russell sad, surely Orcon and Vodahug would have done the same deal?

I'm starting to think they've quite cleverly made TVNZ's problem into Telecom's problem.…

Thanks Gareth, that makes a lot more sense

It still has flaws of course – limiting the scope of who can make full use of the advanced features for no apparent benefit? As Russell sad, surely Orcon and Vodahug would have done the same deal?

That goes very deep. It is nothing new-the communists have been infiltrating Islam since the twenties

Dude, wait 'till bin Laden hears about this. He's gonna go nuts.

Totally. He'll be, like, WTF was that brutal war with Soviet Russia about then?

Danielle: that was simply superb. Thanks for the link.

Hell yeah. Dazzling.

The link is here, for those too lazy to look upthread.

That goes very deep. It is nothing new-the communists have been infiltrating Islam since the twenties

Dude, wait 'till bin Laden hears about this. He's gonna go nuts.

In his mind, the communist grooming of Obama began when the future president was but 10 years old.

During the campaign Obama himself traced it back to kindergarten, when he was encouraged to share his toys with the other children.

Larry Johnson (He's the guy who kept predicting the imminent and devastating Michelle Obama "Whitey" tape, which never existed)

Trevor's tireless work on Obama's communist sleeper-agent secrets is hailed by The Universal Seduction. (Other specialist subjects there: aliens, advanced weaponry, crop circles etc.)

And,…

Seeing as we're doing the crazy people ... Orly Taitz

NO WAI!

I have a deep, deep love for this piece on the rally: White America's Inconvenience Tantrum, Part IV: The 9/12 Project—Building a Bridge to Nowhere with Fractions of Sense. It is long, analytical, righteously peeved, and hilarious. With photos.

That's a brilliant piece, entirely worthy of reading in full... thanks…

(Buses for immigrants only! Local dialects taught at school! Cap on the number of foreigners in our primary school classes!…

The irony is that the guy with the really troubling political past is Loudon himself.

As one whose ideological undies have been sniffed by Louden (whose nose cannot be relied upon to come up with anything much like the truth) I thank you for that Russell.

Wow.

is there anyone else in Act whose alarming anti-Semitic beliefs we should know about?

That isn't yet clear but obviously their reach is international.

Hell, all I'd want via my ISP is the damn EPG, downloadable content isn't that appealing.

What country is Trevor Loudon the president of? I've forgotten.

Oh, and Peterson too.

You'll have to do better than that, Nick. I don't recall the dozens of people Loudon has gone after for their allegedly traitorous pasts being presidents of any countries either.

Some of them --…

But the lock-in to Telecom

F*$K A$% C#$T
Just got rid of Telecom. I ain't going back.

Fail alright.

While New Zealand's broadband is generally accepted as being off the pace of the rest of the world, Minicola says TiVo is unaffected by this.

She said that data delivered at a modest speed of 1.5Mbps (megabits per second) it would only take three to five minutes to download the…

Off topic for today's post (but not for PA as a whole). Looks like Tivo doesn't want my money. What an utter disappointment.

The price isn't unexpected, and the box actually does more than Freeview DVRs at about the same price.

But the lock-in to Telecom? Fail.

I find it…

I get by with the help of my support group.

Nice to know that there's someone there to give you a hand.

TiVo locked to Telecom, pricing announced

Most of the audience didn't appear to get the joke, but that's not surprising.

Careful, Russell, you might have just pulled off a Candyman.

Watch out, this sly double entendre will only enrage Bolton further ("normal Nazis don't do that sort of crap", etc).

Vicki Aznaran, a former top Scientology official who later sued the organization, stated: "Hubbard was very angry at Erhard's success. Nothing got under his skin worse than someone taking one or two of his courses and then running off and…

LOVE the diaper guy!!!!

Obama a Nazi???? Jesus!

Ah Glen...how can they afford you.

And I told y'all last week that FOX had the…

Oh, and Peterson too.

Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein tops the list...

Blop! Blop!

Hey mon, seen. Still!

What I can't figure is why Act's embrace of these people is never cause for comment in the media.

I've often asked myself the same thing.

Do you think someone could ask Rodney Hide about Petersen in Parliament?

Ibid.

A hobby horse is a steed worth keeping well fed and…

And they're now turning on him as a result. The right eats itself.

Anyone know if he's still an Act member?

ACT didn't stand anyone in Rotorua last year and he's not on any of the party lists.

It's probably worth googling all the ACT candidates prior to the next election. Back in the day if a party stood someone crazy the local…

OMG?! Do you suppose Rodney could be a Zionist-Illuminati stooge?

What I can't figure is why Act's embrace of these people is never cause for comment in the media.

Because a shaky grip on reality is their baseline?

From Peterson's website:

A Jewish Defector Warns America: How and Why Zionists Control the US Government.

Anyone know if he's still an Act member?

ACT ran this guy in Rotorua, I think in 2005. Jeepers.

Far out:

The Illuminati Conspiracy.

I believe this is a banking conspiracy wherein a closely knit clique of individuals and wealthy families have used the banking system to create a monopoly on the issue of new money at high…

from which Sarah Palin herself emerges as mendacious, stupid, lazy and vain. Oh, and greedy.

In other words a mendacious sybarite?

It's unlikely that this kind of "thought" will ever gain much political purchase in New Zealand – Act remains the only viable political party weird enough to…

Basically scientology sucks people in by teaching them to be a bit selfish and to stand up for themselves – to everyone else it looks…

Okay, maybe…