Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: When drug law gets so complicated we should rip it up and start again

WH

Fri, 23 Nov 2018 20:48:11 +1300

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Russell Brown

Fri, 23 Nov 2018 12:17:55 +1300

I’m not sure your take on the “real world” of drug use justifies the abolition of the Misuse of Drugs Act or the legalisation of recreational drugs.

Because the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 has been such a marvellous success? One of the other ways the current government is dropping…

WH

Thu, 22 Nov 2018 23:18:16 +1300

I don’t think you understood what I wrote, or that you understand how things work in the real world, especially with drugs like these. Although I’m pleased that you now seem to understand what decriminalisation means, because that hasn’t always been evident.

I'm not sure your take on the "real…

BenWilson

Thu, 22 Nov 2018 17:09:09 +1300

Ever any recorded fatalities?

I think if you count car crashes against alcohol mortality statistics, you have to do the same for cannabis. It's almost certainly been a contributing factor in some deadly accidents. I think it's supposed to be particularly bad for aircraft pilots for some reason. But yes,…

BenWilson

Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:59:35 +1300

At some point, we’re going to have to stop fiddling with existing laws and start the whole thing again from scratch. And given that, we might as well start now.

But incrementalism :-).

Seriously, yes, this. But, NZ First.

Sacha

Thu, 22 Nov 2018 14:39:10 +1300

Marijuana. That kills and disables vastly lower numbers of people who experiment with it.

Ever any recorded fatalities?

tussock

Thu, 22 Nov 2018 12:38:57 +1300

In New Zealand, estimates indicate between 600 and 1000 people die each year from alcohol-related causes (Berl 2009; Connor et al 2005).

One in four children who die, alcohol is a contributing factor. Because violence and car crashes are strongly associated with alcohol, that really means because of alcohol. 1%…

Russell Brown

Thu, 22 Nov 2018 08:14:30 +1300

Meanwhile, Peter Dunne has a scathing, somewhat self-serving but not inaccurate review of the government's performance on drug policy issues.

Russell Brown

Thu, 22 Nov 2018 08:12:48 +1300

Acute mental health units did notice more trouble from the legal synthetics (as compared to weed) prior those law changes so the synthetics were causing more harm although not fatalities.

Yes, and I think as a class of drugs they're a poor fit for regulated sale. It's interesting to speculate…

Neil

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 23:19:36 +1300

Acute mental health units did notice more trouble from the legal synthetics (as compared to weed) prior those law changes so the synthetics were causing more harm although not fatalities.

Neil

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 22:46:30 +1300

Regarding the fly spray street myth, the police only every said that it was word on the street they had heard about. They never claimed or set out to imply this was true.

Prior to those Police statements I’d had heard from people I know who were close to –…

Russell Brown

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 20:53:57 +1300

It’s not helpful to blur the distinction between the decriminalisation and legalisation of recreational drugs. Nandor was doing something similar a few weeks ago – it would be disappointing if that was part of a joint media strategy.

Huh? I’m sure Nandor knows the difference very well. It was a…

Sacha

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 20:17:55 +1300

a joint media strategy

very good :)

WH

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 18:16:12 +1300

If New Zealand relaxes its cannabis laws it will still need criminal…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:41:27 +1300

we should rip it up and start again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESy-Z8vqMrE&ab_channel=DominoRecordingCo.

Seriously though, old "soft on crime" habits die hard.

Sacha

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:35:33 +1300

So the "showstopping" element is that Ministry again. Hey, let's make them responsible for managing drug policy.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:11:10 +1300

Fly spray

“The Government has received advice from police that household chemicals, including fly spray have been used in the production of synthetics.” No, it hasn’t. When you make an unhelpful blurt, just correct it rather than doubling down.
This myth was going around in sept 2017 – but was…

Russell Brown

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 16:52:06 +1300

Given the existence of software models for testing toxicity these days, can you explain how this aspect poses such a problem?

As far as I'm aware, it's still the view of MoH that software models aren't good enough.

KathrynB

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 16:19:02 +1300

My guess is that most Labour and all Green MPs do understand that users are often also suppliers (from necessity) but they still need the votes of socially conservative NZF MPs to get decriminalisation through parliament. Separating out users from suppliers may be enough to get support but they really…

Nick Russell

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 16:18:34 +1300

It was a chicken and egg problem. There was never any guarantee that the results of any such tests would be acceptable to the Ministry of Health. So the Ministry expected producers to go ahead, do the testing and submit the application along with a very hefty fee without having…

Sacha

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:01:36 +1300

And then there's the showstopping ban on animal testing

Given the existence of software models for testing toxicity these days, can you explain how this aspect poses such a problem?

Russell Brown

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 14:39:42 +1300

A new petition from a new group: the Health Not Handcuffs coalition.

Russell Brown

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 14:10:50 +1300

This answer by Andrew Little to Parliamentary questions from Simeon Brown is interesting: it does suggest they get it.

“They are one and the same: suppliers are sellers and sellers are users.”

I do hope that funding for support services isn’t being held up by a desire to untangle the…

Public Address

Wed, 21 Nov 2018 14:10:49 +1300

Discussion from blog post.