This is merely a gentle reminder of the turmoil in Tibet and the impending May summit attempt of Mount Everest with the Olympic Flame. Radio Free Asia has some good first-hand, direct information from Tibet.

Many…

This is just a bit of a heads up regarding the unrest in Tibet and the coming taking of the Olympic Flame to the top of Mt Everest in May. Some good direct first hand information is…

For my part, I've been informed by the discussion following this post, and I really appreciate Ian's reply.

Ditto, RB. And thanks for Mr.Llewellyn giving a bit of insight into the process, especially when there's a meme doing the rounds that the media are all John Key's willing bitches. I…

I assume we're talking about people who pay tax but get support like working for families which outweighs this. Such people aren't effectively paying no tax, they're paying negative tax, and tax cuts can and would provide them benefit – they'd end up with a more negative tax burden.

It's…

though of course what is average is a matter of debate, skewed by the fact that many in New Zealand effectively pay no tax whatsoever

I assume we're talking about people who pay tax but get support like working for families which outweighs this. Such people aren't effectively paying no…

I see on your blog, you have pondered why a bigger deal was not made by news organisations about Key’s comments on tax…

BTW, I've received an email about how one newsroom weighed up the apparent tax promise and didn't write the story. I'll see if I can post it here.

Oh! Yes please!

"The statement is simply not correct. I have been misreported. The paper has no tape didn't ask any questions of me about the comment etc etc.....Bottom line I came to politics to ensure wages conditions…

And to be perfectly blunt, I'm more than a little tired of the media/political assumption that if you don't — or can't — have children its wine and roses all the way.

To me the assumption is that having children is very costly and also worthwhile. Both of which are…

The term "average wage" presumably (properly?) refers to the mean income of everyone who earns at least a buck a year ... and would be a hell of a lot lower than $46k?

Which would go a long way to…

As such, I would think a $3-4b package is pretty steep, even if it's phased in to get us there. The reduced tax take would need to see some pretty big cuts in government provided services...

There is also an important distinction between government spending and actual government services delivered…

So I actually find it plausible that the Nat package will be in the region of what Key's "throwaway" remarks implied.

Fair enough. The discussion has been worthwhile and welcome, though. Carry on.

As…

Are we to get a tax cut on top of WFF?

Who's "we", kemosabe? I'd respectfully suggest to any PA reader who is that outraged by the notion of receiving a personal tax cut and WFF can either 1) cut the IRD a cheque (as far as I'm aware they…

Labour's already hinted at $1.5bn for its tax cut package, I think…

Actually, it's "hard-working taxpayers".

Even better. That could be anyone.

But it's notable in the sense that he's the annointed Prime Minister.

Yes I guess NZers have come to expect leaders who know what they're talking about. They also seem to be 'over' them.

I don't think there's any real…

Those of us with families have already had our tax cuts...

Those of us with families who work. It's a quiet little niggle, but the very poorest families got absolutely nothing out of WFF.

I don't know why everyone's putting such emphasis on a throwaway line by Key. He probably just hadn't done the numbers, and was making shit up.

Of course. It's not any kind of scandal, just an example of his tendency to, as you say "make shit up". But it's notable…

Instead of saying "the average worker" he should have said "a lot of workers". Or even better "the average worker in this room".

Actually, it's "hard-working taxpayers".

It's not clear how they stop the lazy ones getting the same deal.

basically $250 a month to someone on the average wage ain't going to happen.

Working For Families gives me double that for having 2 kids, and I'm right in the middle of that "average income"......

Obviously, more people will qualify for a tax cut than qualify for WFF.... but lots…

When either party announces tax cuts, why does no journalist ever ask them what service cuts they plan to introduce as a result?

To be fair, Daleaway, the question does get asked. And both Cullen and English will put a pat of butter in their mouths, tell you that you…

Beautifully put.

It's the amnesia I find so perturbing. No wonder folk think my scenario above was apocalyptic. But they are nearly all policies that have been tried before or signalled (allowing for some humour).…

They need to state: YES, we do social engineering, we're proud of it, we think any reasonable government needs to spend time on social issues, here's why.

Actually... I think you can insert any number of Labour's policy objectives over the last 2, if not all 3 terms in exchange…

Kyle: You can imagine whatever you like. I prefer to use Treasury's figures on Who pays tax... and how much?, and a calculator.

OK, well you need to get your calculator checked. That table clearly totals up to 3.2 million people, but 237K of them are labelled as paying zero…

A tax cut which delivered a flat $200 a month to the 30% (yes, only 30%) of taxpayers earning over $40K would cost $2.3 billion a year.…

Another thing that depresses me is the way National have (with utter complicity of the media) totally owned the phrase "social engineering" and attached a negative connotation to it.

It's true. Engineering of all kinds is 'playing God' you see. Cause God was an engineer. He worked out the fastest…

Any mourning Labour people should read this and feel a wee bit better.

Anyway, to be going on with, here's the March 5, 1999 Hard News.

I was angry: National was trying to fan a drugs panic. Nothing…

Monetary policy? They didn't like the way National was managing it. Labour didn't have a position themselves, you understand, but they promised to hold a review on it.

Telecommunications policy?…

I agree about Labour's sucess economically. they have a good team that have on the whole worked well. Anderton's been very good.

It makes life difficult for opposition parties the world over – a good economy plus fairly middle of the road econmic policies leaves little for Governments…

His statements have a plain and clear meaning, and so that's what I go for

Well, having just listened to the interview, Key introduced his statement by referring to "the average income earner" being $200 better off, which would seem to specifically rule out your interpretation.

I/S's estimate isn't necessarily wrong, but obviously it's the highest possible interpretation

It's the interpretation I got by taking his promise of a tax cut of "2 – 3 hundred dollars a month" for most New Zealanders at face value. $300 a month x 12 months x 3.2 million odd…

Craig seems to be an expert authority on so many things political that I figured he might be able to fill the vast vacuum of National's non-policy.

Snowy: I seem to be the only person in these parts who isn't on the distribution list for this 'secret agenda' I keep…

National: "It's our job as opposition to keep the government honest (by attacking them at any opportunity"

Media: "It's our job on behalf of the public to keep the government honest (by attacking them at any opportunity)"

So... whose job is…

I wouldn't think they'd fabricate a quote either.

i wasn't trying to suggest that but relying on a Labour Party press release without having the full conversation is a bit dicey. but if he was making extravagent promises then fair enough.

I agree about Labour's sucess economically. they have a…

very colourful Craig, yet completely vacuous and evasive. a little bit like a Key pronouncement, only more frothy.

Gee, snowy, I'll see your 'vacuous' raise you one 'fatuous' and ask you for a cappuccino with plenty of froth.

Um, I don't think that would mean much if Cunliffe ends up getting shredded in the middle of a typically bloody health sector pay round. There is actually a good reason why successive Health Ministers have kept their extremities out of that particular bear trap.

You might also say it's…

Really? I'd have thought the fact that he drew applause from both Matthew Hooton and Laila Harre on the radio this morning would suggest otherwise.

Um, I don't think that would mean much if Cunliffe ends up getting shredded in the middle of a typically bloody health sector pay round.…

Ummmm, you can remember who your currency shark hero is but not if you helped in the trade that made him famous?

Is there anything you can remember Mr Key?

Do you remember how he said he couldn't remember which way his loyalties went with the Springbok/apartheid thing? He said…

The parties with a chance of leading a government, and therefore of getting their legislative programmes through, should be subject to exactly this sort of scrutiny — do the numbers add up?

And the numbers are being thrown around freely.

Key's approach is to talk up "investment" to local media,…

why is money any diifferent from any other commodity? In labelling them 'sharks; who 'attack' you appear to think currency traders are more egregious than those who trade bandwidth or freight space.

Exporters buy money all the time. They are speculating on its future value. Are they sharks or…

I wouldn't rule out a National Government bringing in one currency with Australia (with much rhetoric about New Zealand taking its place in the wider world).

You might be right about that. Key has mused about it in the past saying, "It's one of those things where I would have…

Winston watches the Choncords.

Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: I have seen it for every leader gone. There was Jenny—brave Jenny. She reminds me of the Flight of the Conchords’ song, actually. I ask members whether they have…

Zing! I think I might have to steal that.

thought Milou...

Oui, mon aussi.

You don't need disputed transcripts from Kerikeri. You can just read his speeches in Parliament. And then ask the obvious – screamingly, blindingly obvious – questions. I don't know if the media are doing the first, but they're…

Snowy (Milo in the French)

I thought Milou...

And I wouldn't take a Labour Party press release about what Key might or might not have said on KiwiFM as gospel.

By the same token, I wouldn't think they'd fabricate a quote either.

And, in fact, he did say it (to Wallace, not Wammo) here, at about 3.47".

That…

2008 is shaping up to be the year New Zealand got a new hairstyle – "I just felt like a change".

Yeah, and where the hairdresser promises you a decent society style, but gives you the radical neoliberal look instead.

It takes years to grow back, y'know.

I thought you would pick up the jocular distinction. Next time I'll have a man walk ahead with a flag.

Do you really think the Nats will campaign on such a platform? Presumably not.

I think you can take it to the bank that they won't, which is why I'd like to hear an emphatic denial from Key that he never said he'd "love to see lower wages" in NZ.…

lucky for him the mainstream media are being so charitable though because Key seems incapable of uttering an unscripted and vetted line without making himself look like an arse, or at best an amateur who's way out of his depth.

Yeah, I'm beginning to…

I don't see why all politicians can't be given a bit of the benefit of the doubt when some reported statement seems to be in marked contrast to their policy and/or practice.

For politicians in general.... fair enough. We all make the odd verbal slip.

For Key.... how on earth…

Do you really think the Nats will campaign on such a platform? Presumably not.

Do you really think they will, immediately after being elected, implement the sort of policies that you invent, and expect to get re-elected in 3 years time?…

You forgot slaughter of the firstborn, fire falling form the sky, and a great beast arising out the ocean.

I wouldn't rule out a National Government bringing in one currency with Australia (with much rhetoric about New Zealand taking its place in the wider world).

I doubt this. The Australian economy is increasingly dual speed and traditional macro-economic tools are struggling. I'd doubt it would be in NZ interests…

Tax cuts delivered by way of massive social services cuts. Beneficiary bashing. Sale of…

I thought he was…

It's getting confusing who said what. (like the Fawlty Towers sketch with the deaf lady)

I don't see why all politicians can't be given a bit of the benefit of the doubt when some reported statement seems to be in marked contrast to their policy and/or practice.

i agree, but lowering wages isn't exactly inconsistent with National's fundamental opposition to the labour movement now is…

what a truly appalling way to select the leaders of the country. "Damn the actual legislative program they'll put in place or their policy intent – let's just let them cage-fight it over pointless and irrelevant soundbites"

To point out the obvious, the selection criteria for the leaders of the…

I don't see why all politicians can't be given a bit of the benefit of the doubt when some reported statement seems to be in marked contrast to their policy and/or practice.

Thomas, how do you square the above comment with RB's observation below ?

Key has given a variety…

I gather the person asking Key the questions was not a journalist. A journalist you would think would have done a follow-up question to clarify what Key was saying. The article itself looks poorly written

Is everyone here so desperate for change that this now an acceptable way to read/interpret National Party quotes?

In this case it seems that the reported statements don't represent a logical statement from Key. There is also the apparently informal occasion, and that it isn't a reflection of National's policy.…

Which means that if/when National form…

Shoot, he might have said, "we'd love to see wages [of sin] drop, but we know he doesn't seem to have a view on religion (or he does, it depends who's asking).

Why not? It has worked for the opposition for 5 years.

I think the tactics are pretty different whether you're in opposition or government. When you're the opposition you're sniping at the government so therefore you're sniping at lots of ministries, thousands of public servants etc.

When you're the government,…

I'm a bit mystified by the line –

Mr Key would like to see the…

of course he told a meeting of employers that he'd love to see wages drop, it has the same net effect as telling employers he's going to lower business taxes – ie. increasing business…

Really, it has the feel of desperation whereby every word that Key utters is analysed, and where the slightest sniff of any possible error is immediately subject to a deluge of government-linked press releases

I think linger's comment above is an excellent response to this question from Thomas Johnson. The…

Which was roughly the point of Frewen's column. He's always bagging the gallery for ignoring the actual legislative process...

I've heard or read some of these, but it never quite seemed to stack up with Today in Parliament, which is mostly – sometimes exclusively – about question time.

John Key: We would love to see wages [gap] drop.
The way we want to see wages increase is because productivity is greater. So people can afford more.

Well, everyone's being charitable to Key over "slip of the tongue". Not over something he has denied actually saying. Say the word…

I didn't hear him this morning but was thinking more about the Hawkes Bay debacle his "I haven't made my mind up, I'm keeping an…

The problem with all these "it must have been an error" parses is that in the entire response as transcribed, Key is making a consistent argument.
It just happens to be one that the majority of…

It's the world we live in isn't it ? Bit like the way TV has gone with reality programming, bugger the content it's…

You could well be right – but what a truly appalling way to select the leaders of the country. "Damn the actual legislative program they'll put in place or their policy intent – let's just let them cage-fight it over pointless and irrelevant soundbites"

Which was roughly the point of…

There was an interesting discussion on RNZ today with Laila Harre who seem to basically write-off Labour's chance of re-election, and agreed that this sort of carping attacks from Labour won't help.

Why not? It has worked for the opposition for 5 years.

If Cunliffes' handling of health so far is the best example of Vision and Talent they can come up with they're in huge trouble.

Really? I'd have thought the fact that he drew applause from both Matthew Hooton and Laila Harre on the radio this morning would suggest otherwise.

His…

It doesn't matter though does it now, National don't have to say or do anything, best thing they could do is keep they're heads down and watch Labour self destruct trying to achieve the impossible in October.

You could well be right – but what a truly appalling way to…

Actually, I thought the media had been pretty good at making it clear that it's the foregone interest that constitutes the donation not the loan per se.

If Cunliffes' handling of health so far is the…

the time may well be past when advantage can be gained from attacking Key's credibility like this.

But its never too late to try, right?

Really, it has the feel of desperation whereby every word that Key utters is analysed, and where the slightest sniff of any possible error is…

the elecotrate may be ripe for the taking by just about anybody. It's similar in the US elections. Obama could just about say anything to some and get the nod

Partly agree, and this is why I'm not sure the Key-Obama meme is the most fatuous of last year -…

Only the extreme Standardistas really think Key wants to see wages drop, I think Russel's…

FWIW I think Key meant to say 'wages gap' – it seems obvious from the contrxt, but what do I know.

Possibly. It hadn't occurred to me to make it make sense by adding a missing word; or to Key either, it seems.

it does seem like a genuine mistake

…

John Key: We would love to see wages [gap] drop.
The way we want to see wages increase is because productivity is greater. So people can afford more.

it does seem like a genuine mistake

Very minor but still different. Also note the varying spellings of the two quotees' names

FWIW I think Key meant to say 'wages gap' – it seems obvious from the contrxt, but what do I know.…