Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: What rules are these?

Rob Stowell

Wed, 21 May 2014 14:21:13 +1200

Complete tangent, sorry, but I thought this little article potentially interesting to other geeky types: 'Royals' has inadvertently hiked Maybach's online advertising rates by over 200%.
Googling 'Maybach' (apparently a luxury car) spiked up so fast after 'Royals' became a hit, the company has been paying more than double the rate…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 20 May 2014 08:24:55 +1200

Light fingered...
No one at the beach seemed offended by what happened on the day and nor should they have been. So, if recording or photographing inoffensive events taking place fully in the public gaze is beyond the pale
From these statements I assume the writer was at the beach…

Brent Jackson

Mon, 19 May 2014 23:50:15 +1200

Well put

Steve Barnes

Mon, 19 May 2014 17:43:48 +1200

There are literally hundreds of magazines, websites and TV channels almost exclusively dedicated to this, so there certainly is a lot of interest by the public (not the same as public interest, I guess).
Which always makes me think "Why the fuck? What is wrong with you people? are your…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:45:33 +1200

But let's say you're right and the taking of the bikini pictures was entirely opportunistic, on the part of someone who just happened to be at the same beach at the same time.

Do you see a 17 year-old star and her boyfriend enjoying some time together, away from her…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:26:47 +1200

I can tell you that the pictures taken during a bach holiday were taken on a beach crowded with dozens of people. It was not remote. They were next to the bach, next to a busy picnic ground and car park. No one was followed to the bach or the…

Chris Waugh

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:10:10 +1200

I am a visible minority where I live. My daughter blends in better than me, but becomes just as visible as me whenever I'm around. I can tell you, it is invasive to have people talking about you right in front of your face as if you are an object…

Old Hack

Mon, 19 May 2014 11:32:54 +1200

Well Russell, I'm not going to get too far into your argument with the SST; their editorial was not very elegantly constructed. I do, however, have a serious issue with your post. Fair enough if you want to slag off Runting, feel free, but your readers do have a "reasonable…

WH

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:30:18 +1200

That Sunday Star Times editorial is self-serving gibberish.

The stakes might seem small (if only because it's not you or I being chased about) but that piece has no business influencing public discussion on privacy rights.

bob daktari

Tue, 13 May 2014 11:26:40 +1200

I think the word paparazzo and paparazzi should be vanquished in relation to these contractors, its meaning whilst apt isn't widely known and as such the term seems to justify/validate their professional choices

Kumara Republic

Tue, 13 May 2014 11:24:43 +1200

This behaviour is exploitative and is in the nature of harassment. If journalistic ethics were initially present they have long since been overridden by financial considerations.

New Zealand should introduce French-style restrictions on the sale and publication of photographs taken without consent of the subject. It wouldn’t be hard. People…

Geoff Lealand

Tue, 13 May 2014 08:53:57 +1200

Jeez! I wish I hadn't clicked on his site, for it made my head spin. What an extraordinary septic tank load of gobbledygook. He might be better employed in the firewood industry.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 13 May 2014 08:08:34 +1200

Angle management…
…celebrity boxing lessons
Keen angler that he is Sir Bob, was merely protecting his fishing hole.
Which reminds me National has made a selection for ‘fighting’ the Sydenham/Wigram seat in Chchch.
– National obviously has a secret Southern fishing spot that they find their candidates in, deep tarns…

AdamPope

Tue, 13 May 2014 02:09:21 +1200

I wonder how the early-80s New Zealand Party leader Bob Jones' attitude would pass muster these days...

http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/eyewitness-news---bob-jones-punches-reporter-rod-vaughan-1985

He should do a special offer on celebrity boxing lessons.

WH

Mon, 12 May 2014 22:05:22 +1200

I'm going to lay my cards on the table and admit to thinking justice has been done when I read about a paparazzo being punched or having his or her camera broken.

I should re-emphasise that I'm not demanding a change in the law — the fact that we can…

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 21:52:21 +1200

Couldn't have put it better, Craig.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 12 May 2014 21:50:31 +1200

Am also troubled – for different reasons – by media coverage of Stephanie Key and her art.

Yeah, there was a worthwhile story there about cultural misappropriation (and a very interesting context that sits in within New Zealand art history), but instead there was leering concern trolling about the Prime…

llew40

Mon, 12 May 2014 21:35:59 +1200

Good point on hypocrisy Russell, is that while paparazzi can make a case (of sorts) that they are simply supplying a market demand, it's a bit rich for the likes of this guy, or his supporters, to cry foul about his own treatment. And while it's a part and parcel…

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 20:55:49 +1200

Chaz, I deleted one of your messages. I don’t want this thread to be the source of a campaign. Contact Runting via his Facebook page if you like, but maybe don’t drum it up here.

Yamis

Mon, 12 May 2014 20:55:04 +1200

In broad terms they do prefer “crap” – in that is sells more copies or rates higher, whatever the metric.

You are right of course, but it's worth bearing in mind that crap is cheaper. So part of the selling more copies is because Womans Day (aka crap) according to…

Yamis

Mon, 12 May 2014 20:25:51 +1200

From stuff.co.nz on May 10, 2013

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/culture/performance/8654143/Lorde-NZs-newest-pop-star

includes quotes such as
She seemed to come out of nowhere. In just two months Lorde, who plays Wellington for the first time tonight, has become the Kiwi pop star everyone's talking about. The only one yet to talk much is the teenager…

Gary Young

Mon, 12 May 2014 20:14:54 +1200

I beg to differ.

Miche Campbell

Mon, 12 May 2014 19:47:47 +1200

Not Lorde's world. If she's creeped out then she is, and nobody gets to tell her otherwise.

stephen clover

Mon, 12 May 2014 19:41:52 +1200

Settle down, Chaz and Gary. You two are in danger of frothing yourselves into some kind of frenzy. There are plenty of worlds in which it's not creepy at all.

nzlemming

Mon, 12 May 2014 19:34:55 +1200

Well ultimately the media interest is in the public interest. As annoying as the cry of “we’re only giving people what they want” can be it is ultimately true.

You mistake the public interest for stuff the public is interested in and they are not the same thing at all.

Chaz Harris

Mon, 12 May 2014 19:31:42 +1200

It's super creepy! She's also technically a minor, right? So a middle-aged man taking semi-naked pictures of a minor in her bikini....hmmmm, there should be laws about that.

Gary Young

Mon, 12 May 2014 18:48:20 +1200

Absolutely. I don't care what he may be required to do in pursuit of his profession; he is a middle aged man and she is a teenage girl.

In what world can that not be creepy?

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 12 May 2014 17:49:27 +1200

Camera-action....
Is there room for an advocate?
Something like APRA,
some kind of PAPARRRA...
– Paparazzi Appropriated Photographic Artist Replication Reproduction Rights Association – collecting high percentage 'eyeball money' on behalf of the photonically licenced, from 'Image-takers' and 'Publishers'...
including:
...a quota on photos?
...Flash & Gain Licence essential…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 12 May 2014 17:19:25 +1200

I don’t think it’s true that people prefer crap. It’s perfectly possible to write good popular coverage of pop music and pop stars that sells. But that is harder work.

I suspect it's a symptom of shrinking public attention spans, and it's a worldwide issue.

Miche Campbell

Mon, 12 May 2014 17:18:07 +1200

Not only that but she is not one of those celebrities who is held on a tight leash by their manager.

I just don't think the paparazzi or the big news organisations know quite what to make of her, so they shove her into one of their existing boxes and…

Simon Chamberlain

Mon, 12 May 2014 17:04:37 +1200

DIsgusting quote from the article: "An Auckland photographer who knows Runting well, but asked not to be named, says the problem with that inference is that Runting is not even slightly creepy, and if Yelich-O'Connor thinks so, she is misreading the situation."

Nope: if she is being creeped out by…

Steven Price

Mon, 12 May 2014 16:34:39 +1200

Graeme Edgeler seems to be busy with Kim Dotcom, so I think I have to step up to the plate. Not to disagree with anything in Russel's thoughtful column, but this isn't quite right:

They failed in the High Court and Court of Appeal because their claim was trumped by…

Dylan Reeve

Mon, 12 May 2014 16:09:32 +1200

I don’t think it’s true that people prefer crap. It’s perfectly possible to write good popular coverage of pop music and pop stars that sells. But that is harder work.

In broad terms they do prefer "crap" – in that is sells more copies or rates higher, whatever the metric.…

TracyMac

Mon, 12 May 2014 16:02:56 +1200

But that's the difference between a pop star -someone who is reported on in terms of their work – vs a celebrity, who is reported on "just because".

It doesn't matter that they are often embodied in the same person – the way in which they are reported on is…

Keir Leslie

Mon, 12 May 2014 15:59:18 +1200

I don't think it's true that people prefer crap. It's perfectly possible to write good popular coverage of pop music and pop stars that sells. But that is harder work.

TracyMac

Mon, 12 May 2014 15:58:45 +1200

I didn't follow the Hoskings case, but what exactly is the test of the difference between this kind of papping and stalking/harassment?

From what I can tell (irony alert), it seems to boil down to being paid to do one and not the other.

I certainly want to protect the…

Dylan Reeve

Mon, 12 May 2014 15:48:00 +1200

I get that it’s easier and cheaper to fill a page with the tosh of Runting and his ilk, or a lightly fluffed press release, than a well-written and fully-reported arts/culture feature.

The point is not the ease, but the return. As much as we might like to pretend otherwise,…

Dastardly Bounder

Mon, 12 May 2014 14:50:29 +1200

I wouldn't like to see it descend to persecution

Point taken here.

Dastardly Bounder

Mon, 12 May 2014 14:48:21 +1200

she has exactly the same rights to photograph Runting and distribute the pictures as anyone else

Until she follows him when he's on holiday and making an effort to maintain his privacy...

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 14:21:43 +1200

Which is exactly what Lorde was doing by posting a picture of him and linking to his FB profile. Hopefully her faithful followers will use the power of the masses to bomb him to smithereens…

I wouldn't like to see it descend to persecution, but let's be clear that she…

Geoff Lealand

Mon, 12 May 2014 14:12:47 +1200

All is not lost at the SST. Grant Smithies wrote a perceptive column in yesterday's edition about the obsession women's magazines have with Jennifer Anniston, and peverse interest such magazines have with finding fault with celebs (all those arrows pointing to cellulite zones!).

Dastardly Bounder

Mon, 12 May 2014 14:07:34 +1200

Or better still, hoist him on his own petard and do an Edward Snowden on him.

Which is exactly what Lorde was doing by posting a picture of him and linking to his FB profile. Hopefully her faithful followers will use the power of the masses to bomb him to…

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 14:03:20 +1200

Well ultimately the media interest is in the public interest. As annoying as the cry of “we’re only giving people what they want” can be it is ultimately true.

I get that it’s easier and cheaper to fill a page with the tosh of Runting and his ilk, or a…

WaterDragon

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:59:14 +1200

What he said! Buzz off SST

Kumara Republic

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:52:42 +1200

I think possibly the best way to deal with someone like Runting is socially. Something came across the FB feeds recently calling for a boycott of Runting, don’t serve him coffee, turn him away at your door… never darken this hearth again kind of thing. As group our actions determine…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:49:37 +1200

Well ultimately the media interest is in the public interest. As annoying as the cry of “we’re only giving people what they want” can be it is ultimately true.

I get that it’s easier and cheaper to fill a page with the tosh of Runting and his ilk, or a…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:49:31 +1200

People like Simon Runting are the very reason why the Leveson Inquiry was held. Even the Oily One thinks Runting is a toilet-door kicker, and that's saying something.

James W

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:48:57 +1200

There's lots of things the public might have an interest in that the media chooses not to include in its publications – porn, perhaps (I'm still waiting on the Herald on Sunday to start featuring Page 3 girls). Less savoury things. Editors make decisions all the time about what not…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:36:32 +1200

Icon or Mycon?
If the famous are famous because of the Intellectual Property of their 'Image' – perhaps it would be only fair for the 'subject/content' of the paparazzi's saleable images of said 'intellectual property', to share in the profits.

I think the SST article alluded to Ms Bingle having…

Dylan Reeve

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:25:36 +1200

And sorry, but where’s the public interest let alone news value in (gasp!) Actress X. goes out for coffee or picks her children up from school in sweatpants and a t-shirt rather than a high end couture gown?

Well ultimately the media interest is in the public interest. As annoying…

Dylan Reeve

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:18:24 +1200

I’m always a little conflicted about this sort of stuff – the fact is that any of us have the legal right to photograph anyone in a public place, and that is the same right that these photographers are asserting. I don’t think that should be limited because once press…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:58:41 +1200

Lorde interests the media because they can make much money off her (and all the other celebs) – be it photos, tweets, mentions and the like- as opposed to talking about her art which is of little interest because there’s no money for the media in that angle

You may…

Martin Lindberg

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:51:53 +1200

There are literally hundreds of magazines, websites and TV channels almost exclusively…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:41:08 +1200

Lorde is papped constantly when she’s on the job – followed from the hotel to the venue by fleets of photographers. She doesn’t complain about that. But being followed when she’s just trying to live? It’s different.

And sorry, but where’s the public interest let alone news value in (gasp!)…

Jonathan King

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:34:13 +1200

"A lot of those celebrities are super-managed by their agents," says an Auckland photographer. "You don't see the real them. They have picture and copy approval.

And it also bears noting that this is a performer who tweeted un anretouched picture of herself in performance, after the original was photoshopped…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:23:56 +1200

Laudanum...
that doesn’t entitle her to her own set of rules.
Sadly, that was the only way such a bitter editorial could end, it's as if the dinosaurs have seen the comet coming straight at them and are lashing out, trying to counter their irrelevance.

Sad people,
sad paper,
sad…

Dastardly Bounder

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:20:34 +1200

refreshingly low bullshit tolerance
That's one of the things I admire about her style. As a father of girls I thoroughly appreciate her stance to reduce the beauty myth

bob daktari

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:12:43 +1200

To be…

Dastardly Bounder

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:12:02 +1200

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:06:08 +1200

The Star Times also ran a story on the issue:

There’s even a case to be constructed for snapping celebrities going about their daily business.

“A lot of those celebrities are super-managed by their agents,” says an Auckland photographer. “You don’t see the real them. They have picture and copy…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:05:27 +1200

from the editorial
it is the media that have propelled her into the living room of American and beyond

Bull F***ing Shit.

This is an outright lie used to justify an unjustifiable position. The person who wrote this should be seriously taken to task for this drivel.

One of the…

John Edwards

Mon, 12 May 2014 12:00:39 +1200

As something of an update on Hosking v Runting, there's this, from Paul Weller http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/apr/16/paul-weller-privacy-damages-children-photos-mail-online

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:58:26 +1200

To be fair, this should be for a five year minimum, so that people don’t toggle themselves in and out of public status when they, for instance, have something to sell.

No. There is a material difference between doing interviews about your work and consenting to be followed around by…

Miche Campbell

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:57:03 +1200

Lorde is a minor, for fuck's sake. That should be enough to keep the likes of Runting off her back.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:56:55 +1200

Fuck – seriously? I'd give substantially more credit to a) her own determination, b) Adam Holt, c) Bandcamp, d) net buzz.

And just to go really out there – perhaps Lorde interests the media because she comes over as an unaffected human being with a refreshingly low bullshit tolerance rather…

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:56:31 +1200

She was well on her way long before the SST or any such similar “media” bothered with her name. Two years ago I was in record company offices where her impending success was touted. As always, these people follow, they don’t create.

Yes. There’s an undertone of “she couldn’t have…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:48:30 +1200

For all Lorde’s talents – and they are many – it is the media that have propelled her into the living room of American and beyond and made her arguably the most famous NewZealander in the world right now.

Fuck – seriously? I'd give substantially more credit to a) her…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:45:51 +1200

Maybe there should be an opt-out request protocol, whereby one can request to be no longer reported on as a public person. It would be easy to program publishing systems to block any article that mentions a person who has made such a request.

To be fair, this should be…

nzlemming

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:35:46 +1200

I'm surprised people still read it. I don't even bother picking it up in a cafe anymore. Stupid Fairfax paper is stupid.

But "Well, have a fucking chocolate fish." is going to be the line of the week! :-D

Nik Dirga

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:33:48 +1200

Famous people aren't allowed to have problems or whinge about anything that happens to them because they're FAMOUS! Don't we KNOW that?

And rubbish like this is why I stopped picking up the SST

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:29:27 +1200

And that’s the rub for Lorde, or Bingle or others who complain about the media’s constant gaze. While there’s little question the 24/7 demands of the internet have raised the stakes, the fact remains that celebrities are famous because of the media – not despite it.

These would be the…

Brent Jackson

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:18:09 +1200

Hear, hear!

Public Address

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:18:09 +1200

Discussion from blog post.