put $XXX million dollars into our first budget and it will be there every year from then on, adjusted for inflation, so we can guarantee the research future of NZ'.

I doubt anyone realizes this but only one funding agency in NZ adjusts grants for inflation and that's the Marsden…

Isn't it great to see Key thinking we do not need it.

I can't understand what advice Key is getting. His argument is 'we don't need it because it doesn't need to be a capital fund the government should just fund it'.

Which in the sound bite media world is…

As far as I can find out means something about being out of date – pre the Great Flood of Biblical times?

Ever since Roger Douglas said agriculture was a sunset industry, NZ'ers have not recognised its true worth. I suffered that when we spent the 80's and 90's in ag research…

John Key still not shutting up. It's been interpreted as trying to build a differentiated brand from Labour, but surely "The guy who wants his own facts" isn't something to try for?

Craig: Key strikes me more as a Policy Salami. May not actually end up being bad for you, but no idea what's in there.

It also makes political sense – means you get two bites from the media.

Up to a point, it becomes a little less credible when you're furiously trying to paint the other bastard as a Policy Salome who's hiding something icky under the seventh veil. :)

Finally, it’s an interesting point about the name. We never considered calling it Russell. Perhaps next time.

I'd like to you consider "Colin". It works very well for our somewhat famous cat, and I'm confident someone could reverse-engineer a good acronym into it.

It’s better anyway for experts than for politicians to
make decisions about research areas.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Can we get a definition of "expert" please? If you mean experts like the royal society of NZ who have done such…

That was a highly successful progargmme run in conjunction with the UN that provided education to many developing country students and facilitated research into a significant sustainable energy source.…

And " trust us we will deal with the details" is really is not good enough...remember the last time we heard that

I really don't get this line of thought. Government almost always announces the headline first, and then the detail later.

It makes practical sense – means you can…

And " trust us we will deal with the details" is really is not good enough...remember the last time we heard that

I remember all the times we've heard that from successive governments, and I'm put in mind of the proverb, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice,…

And…

It's remarkable how badly Key has handled this.

not really, not when you consider his track record

You cannot and shouldn't solely fund basic science but you also must not pretend for a second that you can "pick winner" because of some clever economic goal. It just doesn't work that way.

I've had quite a few discusions with mathematicians while doing some work for NZIMA and time…

They've jumped the shark.

It's remarkable how badly Key has handled this.

I would have thought he could very easily have gone for "This is too much like the government picking winners. What we'll do is put more money into science research overall and let the market do the rest".

But there are contra arguments. The US did lots of basic science through (say) 1950-80 and made money out of it. Japan (although this is a bit anecdotal) did bugger all and still managed very…

Ladies and gentlemen, I have the answer! Incredible as it might seem, I have stumbled across the single technology which will save us from runaway climate change! From the goodness…

Jim Anderton

Now we're 'Ministerial special'.

You cannot and shouldn't solely fund basic science but you also must not pretend for a second that you can "pick winner" because of some clever economic goal. It just doesn't work that way.

Sure, and I think its worth pointing out that the antibacterial effects of Penicillium weren't discovered…

The N product is at best a delay on pollution, but not a solution. It is the intensification and suitablility of the land being used where true solutions lie.

The Carbon Sinks…

there are things you can prepare for, and things you can't, but either way, bitching about it doesn't make a blind bit of difference, and is an entirely wasted effort.

I agree with you completely on this IS, bitching doesn't change the circumstances a tinkers damn. I think it's entirely…

The mentions of the Yates garden book reminds me of an odd little book I own--"Adam the Gardener: New Zealand edition" (n.d.), with strip drawings of a…

but to me it's obvious the co-op's owners aren't going to invest in R&D to the level other global companies can.

Jason, I think you make an excellent point about Fonterra's ownership. What's your take on the proposed restructuring and partial float?

I’ve got a few answers to your questions about New Zealand Fast Forward.

You asked about the companies involved. Some of our most important primary
sector companies have made a commitment. They include Fonterra, DairyNZ,
Meat and Wool NZ, the Meat Industry Association, Zespri and PGG
Wrightson. (I notice…

there are things you can prepare for, and things you can't, but either way, bitching about it doesn't make a blind bit of difference, and is an entirely wasted effort.
To paraphrase The Wire,this is New Zealand; the gods will not save you.

Same applies for people bitching and whining…

i'm all for basic research but tripling the amount of papers and patents churned out will not spontaneously lead to any kind of payback no matter how much scientists implore you to just, just... believe.

I'm to simply disagree with you, but I do.

The history of science and…

To paraphrase The Wire,this is New Zealand; the gods will not save you.

And he has no alternative policy to offer. They've jumped the shark. Really.

Hey, at least Key's not dithering and indecisive. [Insert signifier for simultaneously rolling eyes and shrugging shoulders.]

I don't think I'm with him on this, but someone really needs to sit John down and explain a deep…

Its also like Americans living in Tornado Alley and"thanking God" and "We're gonna rebuild" as soon as their house is flattened by their annual devastation of their home. Duh!

And when some enormous part of New Zealand – say, Wellington or Auckland – gets swallowed up by a massive earthquake…

Bollocks. I/S how happy do you think you would feel if your salary was cut in half simply because it didn't rain for four months? Nothing to do with your job performance, or market conditions, but simply too much sunshine?

Excuse my ignorance of how this works but my experience,…

The romans had invented underwear

Not to mention that the toga was the equivalent of a formal tailored suit.

Though considering what the Governor of New York has been up to lately...

And he is saying that they'll cancel the fund.

Bah. More short-termism. Hole. Spade. Dig deeper. Meet subterranean…

Could you translate this please?

Lord of the Rings & NZ as Middle Earth

And he has no alternative policy to offer.

This is partly my confusion – he makes statements like:
__"National will be rolling out a comprehensive research and development policy closer to the election. We will make long-term funding commitments that provide certainty to the sector because we see it as…

The 3 pm news said that Key says National will scrap the 700m fund.

He would use the money to lower taxes apparently.
Oh man, really? Did he/Teh News actually say the "lower taxes" bit or is that some slightly cheeky presumption?
Cause if so that's dropped his stock in…

Exactly what changes occur when your parsley stops producing yummy leaves and instead produces useless seeds?

Anti-GM be damned, you could make a fortune from frustrated kitchen gardeners if you could invent a perennial parsley or coriander plant. My last-but-one coriander crop got to 2cm high before going to seed.

The 3 pm news said that Key says National will scrap the 700m fund.
He would use the money to lower taxes apparently.

Oh man, really? Did he/Teh News actually say the "lower taxes" bit or is that some slightly cheeky presumption?
Cause if so that's dropped his stock in…

Oh, you mean like Waikato, where it hasn't rained this summer either?

No, I don't mean the Waikato, I mean Canterbury, but you KNOW that. The Waikato isn't 'famous for it never raining'. I'm not talking about ALL farmers, only the ones I was actually talking about. Not the Waikato,…

LOL! I knew I could get a bit of help there . Thanks Craig. What if there is a teddy bear, but we just cant find it?

If Hiz'Honnor has a soft toy secreted anywhere about his person, I don't want to know. There ain't enough pharmaceuticals in the world…

That's not a question that's already answered in my Yates NZ Gardens book?

Lovely book isn't it. It answers the question of "how to grow plants?". How plants grow is a much more interesting question :). What happens inside the plant when you shade it with another plant?…

Did you just start up a dairy farm in a region famous for it never raining?

Oh, you mean like Waikato, where it hasn't rained this summer either?

Sometimes, shit just happens. Maybe they should just suck it up and get over it, but I don't think its completely unreasonable…

I/S how happy do you think you would feel if your salary was cut in half simply because it didn't rain for four months? Nothing to do with your job performance, or market conditions, but simply too much sunshine?

Depends. Did you just start up a dairy farm in a…

Nurse! need a subeditor here, stat! Or a thesaurus, at the very least.

"So, yes, I think a bit of B&W about the weather isn't totally out of order from people whose livelihoods are intimately connected with it."

Maybe they could sacrifice a goat too while they're at it?

Weather happens, and it's no good bitching and whining about it. And if they prepared…

Damn, it's hot behind the entertainment rack. Will blog in the morning ...

Sounds like something Mr Spitzer woudl say.

Can't muster much more in the way of a response right now. Too busy playing with my just-in-the-country-and-not-quite-ready-for-your-Mum to-use Freeview PVR (a Topfield).

The thing I'm most…

(Though I'd like to see this advisory issued: Do not go to a toga party commando style. Especially if your self-esteem is going to suffer when a wardrobe malfunction results in pointing and hysterical laughter.)

That, and it's anachronistic. The romans had invented underwear, you know (they'd even invented leather…

My guess, and I’m a plant developmental biologist, is that if we can figure out how plants grow that will open up areas of tremendous value to NZ and humankind as a whole.

That's not a question that's already answered in my Yates NZ Gardens book?

And we haven't had…

And we haven't had a decent student riot in years :(

Yes, Morris Street seems so long ago.

(egads, it was long ago – 1991!)

intended to protect the spacious and tree-filled qualities of sites characterised by generously sized lots, wide roads and lower densities often with period housing.

It could be said that it's some of those qualities that have got Auckland into the sprawling, gridlocked mess it is now.

While I don't mean…

]]> Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:00:18 +1300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-what-id-really-like-to-know/?p=44499#post44499 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-what-id-really-like-to-know/?p=44499#post44499 "Wait until you see our science R&D policy." Mr. Key

I suppose they are working out the details :-)

]]> Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:54:47 +1300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-what-id-really-like-to-know/?p=44498#post44498 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-what-id-really-like-to-know/?p=44498#post44498

And we haven't had a decent student riot in years :(

The sad decline of standards in our society. Tut-tut.

Shit, I'm beginning to sound like I belong here. Right, I'm off to Wellington for the weekend, to eat real food, visit real bookshops, and soak up the atmosphere of…

What you mean the weather Gods of the Manawatu aren't appeased by drunken Massey students torches old couches and rioting in the streets?

I don't think they do that to change the weather; rather its some form of fertility ritual (Orientation is the new Bacchanalia!)

And we haven't had a…

don’t know the meat companies but they might pony up some dosh

Historically they haven't been too keen, hence why MIRINZ had to merge with AgResearch.

But I suspect the phrase "expectation" that private parties would stump up with matching funding was chosen with some care. Serious question, because I've not found any answer — exactly what does that mean?

Research funding in NZ is really unbalanced. In most countries industry funds a decent…

Maybe they could sacrifice a goat too while they're at it?

What you mean the weather Gods of the Manawatu aren't appeased by drunken Massey students torches old couches and rioting in the streets? (God, I love social stereotypes — even if its a hell of a job trying to…

Sorry for the wall of text

What are the most promising areas of research?

Any research if done really well has the prospect of producing economic and social benefit. The problem with this question is it…

Heh. The meaning of that is changed quite a lot from the more traditional 'dyed in the wool'.

Especially if you've a fondness for classic detective fiction. Though, in context, I rather doubt any politician is going to find the inventively nasty murder of Flossie Rubrick, MP, "one of the…

"So, yes, I think a bit of B&W about the weather isn't totally out of order from people whose livelihoods are intimately connected with it."

Maybe they could sacrifice a goat too while they're at it?

Weather happens, and it's no good bitching and whining about it. And if they prepared…

Why cant we have a proper discussion on the big issues facing New Zealand? Why?

Because that would require a media who could devote the required amounts of time and intellectual effort to learn about those issues. And that just doesn't make sense for media owners – they'd rather have…

Well bugger me, could it be that John Banks is going to use his obnoxiousness for good instead of evil ?

There was a very good Daily Show Clip with John Oliver about Bush visiting Africa and 'doing good work'.

Oliver was spewing because "for all this time he's been…

And I may also be a died in the wool latte drinking urban dweller

Heh. The meaning of that is changed quite a lot from the more traditional 'dyed in the wool'.

I'm sure some accountant in wtgn thinks they've done a wonderful job of forcing "efficiencies" in science. [I'd…

This money, while you could argue it should have come from Fonterra without any government help, is desperately needed.

Fair enough, Bart. But I suspect the phrase "expectation" that private parties would stump up with matching funding was chosen with some care. Serious question, because I've not found any answer…

Could you translate this please?

I thought it came from Aucklanders (mostly) mortgaging themselves up the wazoo to own a ski house.

"...Also, it looks like John Banks has actually done something..."

I was stunned at that as well! I just hope he gets his wife to start the car for him in the morning from now on.

Yikes. But yes, he has gone up considerably in my estimation.

As Craig (always ;)…

we could have seen hundreds of beautiful pre-1940s homes across this city being demolished and replaced with crass modern architecture

Rather than a blanket ban on demolition, how about trying to ensure that if they are demolished, they get replaced with good…

Re: Fonterra. Given the success you speak of RB, do you have any sense of whether it really requires this, um, subsidy?

Please don't think of this as a subsidy for Fonterra. As much as I have reservations about this fund, the money will actually go to researchers…

IP is a fine idea but what indication has Fonterra given that they intend to remain a NZ based company?

I'm not sure I understand your point, but the very legislation that created Fonterra assures that. You have to be a farmer providing milk in NZ to be a shareholder…

"So, yes, I think a bit of B&W about the weather isn't totally out of order from people whose livelihoods are intimately connected with it."

Very true, but it's…

Yes, but it took a trip to Asia last year to bring home to me how bloody big Fonterra is, and what it's doing to open new markets, especially in terms of creating products targeted to those markets. It is genuinely important.

I find Fonterra a perplexing company – it…

Surely the logical extention of their policy is to move closer to the growing production areas and markets?

On creation the 1st thing Fonterra did was raise the price of…

But Paul's right. Have you ever listened to the rural news on RNZ?

Often, but RNZ would be a lot of dead air if you didn't have every lobbyist, sector group and rentaquote "bitching and whining" about something. :) My scrubby patch of garden being under six inches of water…

And am I the only Morning Report listener who finds it regrettable that Sean Plunket is (occasionally) relapsing into 'hectoring' mode?

No.

So they're basically looking at providing $50-70m a year, topped up with whatever interest they're earning early on in the fund. I imagine that won't be evenly spread though, weighted more towards the end.

Yep, that was what Clark indicated. Draw-downs would be fairly modest in the first few years…

But the smart strategy is to keep the intellectual property here, in New Zealand, because the big dairy company is the closest thing we're likely to have to our own Nokia

Which the industry in general is starting to do really well with regards to South America – taking all…

"...Also, it looks like John Banks has actually done something..."

I was stunned at that as well! I just hope he gets his wife to start the car for him in the morning from now on.

Yikes. But yes, he has gone up considerably in my estimation.

And the CitRats…

Re: Fonterra. Given the success you speak of RB, do you have any sense of whether it really requires this, um, subsidy?

And Shep:

But before any of this happens including paying off the mortgaged farms. Fonterra will be based closer to its markets in even lower wage economies…

It's in the Morning Report item, starting at the 3 minute point. She says that the fund will expire in 10 – 15 years which is a bit vague.

Right, thanks. Unfortunately not computer literate enough to get around the firewall-type prompts I get at work when I try and…

I was stunned at that as well! I just hope he gets his wife to start the car for him in the morning from now on.

a screaming need to find ways to enjoy the current dairy bounty without exhausting all our clean water, and to try and curb our pastoral greenhouse gas problem

Would something like this help? Or could something like that be adapted for pastoral farming?

Perhaps "You don't know how lucky you are" would be a bit more palatable while expressing the same sentiment? Plus there's a groovy song already written to that effect.

But Paul's right. Have you ever listened to the rural news on RNZ?

"Farmers in x say it's too…

Yes, they'll moan & bitch about anything.

Paul, I really hope you're doing Labour's campaign advertising: STOP BITCHING YOU UNGRATEFUL PRICKS would look splendid on a billboard. :)

he reminded me of Mike Moore from the Australian news comedy Frontline

Anyone provide the link to this information? Interested in how long the fund will be around for/how often it will be topped up if it's designed to provide more than it earns...

It's in the Morning Report item, starting at the 3 minute point. She says that the fund will…

I thought John Key looked tired on breakfast T.V. this morning. And – though I can't believe I am saying this – the petty, hectoring and patronising style of Paul Henry during the interview made me feel sorry for Mr.Key

No, I believe it quite easily — because I wouldn't…

And seriously, is it wise to send Brian Connell anywhere?

Perhaps John Key is actually a genius and didn’t want Brian Connell anywhere near NZ for as much of election year as possible...

But seriously – it was all over the television news last night too. Crapo lazy coverage. And…

As for Queenstown ... I expect you're right in part. The same factors are probably…

But before any of this happens including paying off the mortgaged farms. Fonterra will be based closer to its markets in even lower wage economies than NZ.

The critical difference was that the media criticized and harangued Clark constantly early in her leadership (incl. in the infamous 16% days), whereas John…

I thought John Key looked tired on breakfast T.V. this morning. And – though I can't believe I am saying this – the petty, hectoring and patronising style of Paul Henry during the interview made me feel sorry for Mr.Key.

Yes, he did look tired and yes, that was a…

I fear the government is still labouring under the impression that New Zealand is a rural nation ... when about 86% of the population lives in urban areas.

Yes, but it took a trip to Asia last year to bring home to me how bloody big Fonterra is, and what…

;-)

Back to Fast Forwarding New Zealand ... my recollection is that there's relatively little employment in farming, even when one adds the work associated with processing primary foodstuffs. (As an aside, a colleague once told me that more people…

because in my experience farmers are rather pragmatic

Yes, they'll moan & bitch about anything.

"And seriously, is it wise to send Brian Connell anywhere?" – Well maybe but it would be undemocratic not too. He was elected by the good people of Selwyn after…

Sorry for being cynical but...

No apologies required, Bart. Between you and Russell, you've provided more worthwhile — and healthily sceptical — analysis, and asked more worthwhile substantive questions than the MSM have collectively managed so far.

Pardon for another digression, but that would be a damn good story idea…

it will actually provide funding from interest and principal

Anyone provide the link to this information? Interested in how long the fund will be around for/how often it will be topped up if it's designed to provide more than it earns...

The suggestion is that industry will have to be equal partners, what happens if they don't come up with equal money? Does…

Interestingly politically ... since my understanding is that Labour is widely loathed in the agricultural sector, which has traditionally been a bedrock of National support

And a pretty flawed understanding, because in my experience farmers are rather pragmatic. I don't think it would be smart politics for anyone to make…

But I concur with Craig about the lame excuse…

Oy vey... why don't we just shut down Parliament in election year since the poor petals have such difficulty multi-tasking? I don't think I find the junket half as offensive as the rationale.

That is pretty much what is happening anyway – only 61 sitting days scheduled by Labour.…

According to Morning Report, Fonterra, Zespri and PGG Wrightson have already signed up.

Ah, thanks. I stayed in bed an extra 20 minutes this morning and missed that, but I think it was the most useful coverage I've come across.

It's here if anyone else missed it too.

Craig, if…

Interestingly politically ... since my understanding is that Labour is widely loathed in the agricultural sector, which has traditionally been a bedrock of National support, and always likely to view government in…

Craig, if Helen Clark had all the details worked out at this time, I suspect you would be tempted to criticise her for for being a control freak.

Oh come on, Mikaere, if you're going to call me a partisan hypocrite don't fudge. Somehow, I don't think John Key would…

Interestingly, John Key has got his facts wrong again

If only that were so Mikaere, unfortunately it's becoming so commonplace that like Bush, and Reagan before him, Key's screw-ups are becoming so commonplace that they're not even raising eyebrows or interest anymore.

It seems the media are just used to…

Which private-sector companies are most likely to pony up matching funds?

According to Morning Report, Fonterra, Zespri and PGG Wrightson have already signed up.

Craig, if Helen Clark had all the details worked out at this time, I suspect you would be tempted to criticise her for for being a…

And while I too would love to hear of current initiatives in the industry that may utilise the funding, I don't think…

You could be forgiven for thinking the Speaker's Tour exists principally as an annual opportunity for set-piece media outrage, to flare briefly and then be forgotten until the next year's Speaker's Tour.

And to give the junket the little attention it deserves, I was less than impressed by this part…

I know we have quite a few scientists reading here, and a smaller number who post in our forums. I'd be very grateful if you could all venture some comment, so the readers and I could read perspectives we're not finding elsewhere today.

Indeed — and I'm pretty disappointed that…