Hard News: We'll find out where all the parties are
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parts of the Auckland CBD I wouldn't dream of setting foot in after dark
Where? K-Rd? Fort St? I wouldn't wander through Myers Park alone but that's a park full of glue sniffers, not a street. Even that's fine if there's two of you..
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yeah, I've very rarely and only in the distant past felt endangered either. and in fact only been beaten up at home (when I called a scungy flat home) a very long time ago.
i've seen the odd incident, some of which involved crazy guys/road rage/and a couple of tangential/sideways encounters with the harris gang (who deserve their own wiki entry).
but as emma has wisely noted- we live in a different city from our kids. -
merc,
The next arrogant SOB who refers to Christchurch as a hick or rural town is getting a be-atch slap from me.
Say what?
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But they're not debating how their philosophy should change: quite a few of them are saying "it challenges our philosophy, therefore we should refuse to believe it."
Oh dear... Reminds me of a bizarre conversation (well, it was a monologue while I did my best cornered bunny routine) years back I once had a women's studies major who was going to convince me or else biology was a construct of patriarchal normative hegemony. Don't you just love it when science becomes politically inconvenient?
There's a book to be written on politics as secular religion, and why it's not a very good idea.
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Oh well, if it's not texting or BeBo, then the msm will be back on myspace. And lo, apparently out of control gatecrashers are a problem for Annie Lennox's daughter, not just the good residents of The Flatlands.
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a couple of tangential/sideways encounters with the harris gang (who deserve their own wiki entry).
Cue flood of repressed memories, and shuddering.
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Emma, you knew the harris gang? We should get a wiki entry going. Ok I've got no real insights or anythin- but it's a great story.
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There's a book to be written on politics as secular religion, and why it's not a very good idea.
With you there. That tends to be my view of the ghastly excesses committed in the names of Marx and Mao.
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Hm.
Right, let's see: Christchurch, NZ's second or third largest city, (depending on how you count the valleys of sub-cities around Wellington) has a lively central city with a boozy populace. But wait... I travel NZ frequently in my work, hang in out cities and towns all over the show... and while the concentration of boozy meatheads is higher in central chchch, I'd actually argue that if you concentrated the boozy meatheads from the other cities in the fairly tight social areas that Chch concentrates them in, you'd end up with the same thing.
This is not a chchch issue. Wellington (Hutt Valley!), North Shore, the entire centre of Hamilton... all of these places could have housed a party that parents didn't know about, that could have spilled onto the road, that could have gone rowdy. Heck, they DO. Most weekends. That's WHY this is news. It's happening all the time and it's a national "issue". This one resulted in some outrageous deaths. I went past a party in Wellington the other night that could have done the same thing, as they were practicing their bottle throwing at passing cars.
Central Welly has more yuppies, as does certain bits of the Auckland nightlife, which dilutes the meatheads somewhat... but this stuff is happening down the road from you, no matter where you live.
I feel perfectly safe in most bits of most cities in NZ at night. Bit if I see a boozy party or raucous group spilling out of a bar? I'm crossing the street.
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Knew? no. Knew of, had a couple of vague run-ins with, heard copious stories about, yeah. The last I remember hearing about them was when the cops were trying to get a non-association order for them, despite them all being brothers. But I'll bet there are some GREAT stories out there somewhere.
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Knew? no. Knew of, had a couple of vague run-ins with, heard copious stories about, yeah. The last I remember hearing about them was when the cops were trying to get a non-association order for them, despite them all being brothers. But I'll bet there are some GREAT stories out there somewhere.
There's a bit about the Harris gang here
Criminal family from way back, matey with Timaru's Road Knights, one family member won a share in a a Lotto 1st Division. White trash who adopted neo-Nazi styles at some point.
I guess the nearest Auckland equivalent would be the Headhunters, but they're smaller and rather more ... businesslike.
As I mentioned, we had a neighbourhood gang in Christchurch, but I'm damned if I can remember what they were called.
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On the alcohol issue, I remember one anti-drug campaigner issuing a statement telling parent they should be alarmed if their children were drinking water on a night out on the town.
Because that, of course, meant they were definitely on drugs.
I think it was DJ Roger Perry who pointed out that, drugs or not, if you spent five hours at a club drinking alcohol you'd be a bloody mess.
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There was a certain something about the Harris gang. The oddest/funniest moment I witnessed (apart from the lotto thing, of course) was one day they spent at tvnz in chch, waiting for an interview with Holmes. They sat around patiently for hours: a couple of ginger-beerded zz-top looking hoons, one big, one little. The closest I got was sharing the lift- there wasn't much small-talk...
But then, about 5 ish, it became apparent the i/v with holmes wouldn't happen (i think it might've just been a link issue) and it was suggested they be interviewed by the local reporter for the holmes programme. They were quite indignant. It was holmes or no-one. They were incredibly sure of themselves- and I felt at the time, of their semi-"mythic" stature. They marched out of the building strutting with self-righteous indignation. -
"As I mentioned, we had a neighbourhood gang in Christchurch, but I'm damned if I can remember what they were called"
Heh - we just had the 'Naenae Boys' which frankly, lacked a bit of imagination, and was all a bit sub-Warriors (movie not footy team). But worthy of neighbourhood fear nonetheless, and responsible for more than their fair share of mindless violence.
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Heh - we just had the 'Naenae Boys' which frankly, lacked a bit of imagination, and was all a bit sub-Warriors (movie not footy team). But worthy of neighbourhood fear nonetheless, and responsible for more than their fair share of mindless violence.
Ours seems so suburban in retrospect. Stupid, rat-faced white guys who beat up kids.
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Thanks for the link, Russell. (hope you're fully recovered, btw!) It's a bit like stepping into another world! tho I never got all the harris stuff from the thread- will go back later.
I should add: I worked with a guy who was an ex-police detective sargeant- long story, but he arrested their father for the first (I think) lsd bust in NZ.
The father was apparently running the odd little circus that used to be parked forlornly out by macleans island: half-a-dozen of those rip-off throw-the-ping-pong-ball in the clowns' mouth type trailers. Anyway, my mate reckons the mother was the tough one. Their dad kissed her after being sentenced and asked if she'd wait for him. "F# off" she said- "Who do you think I am?"
This was back in the late 60s I think, and my mate, who bought a garage and left the force, employed their dad when he got out and was quite washed up. (This is a chinese whisper- I do trust the guy who told me, but the details might be... dramatised)
The gang also had a truely mad associate, who exploded a nail bomb in the foyer of the Sydenham police station. People who knew said he was the dangerous one. But the Harrises were quite capable of burning down a house or two...
After being put in separate prisons, they ran up an $8000 phone bill, which they inisted the state pay.
And then one of them won lotto: $600k. He bought a big house in Westmorland. The neighbours organised a boycott of the real estate agent involved. The Harrises hung out there a lot; once when another friend was trying to film the house, they ran out and shouted at him; another time, they blocked the camera van by putting concrete blocks across the road.
It was a quite a long-running act... -
As a former long term resident of the Garden City permit me to say a few words in its defence. In my opinion it's no worse, and no better, than any other city when it comes to violence.
Sure there were areas where I wouldn't wander alone late at night (Colombo St down by the overbridge being a prime example) but I'd say the same about areas in other cities as well.
I had a late night sojourn in Newtown not so long ago that had the hairs on the back of my neck standing on end and the pulse racing. I also recall a very dodgy evening nightclubbing in Otara many years ago (white boys go into nightclub, cue Once Were Warriors music and a huge collective stare - gulp)
As for the issue of cellphones leading to out of control parties I'm not sure that stands up completely. The grapevine has always managed to operate fullsteam regardless of technology.
Cellphones were completely unknown when I was going through my teenage binge drinking years in Motueka yet that never stopped hordes of people arriving to whichever party was humming on a Friday or Saturday night. Especially after the pubs closed.
Once my parents came home to find well over 100 people in various states of inebriation lolling around the property. We were about as country as it got yet that didn't stop the multitudes taking the time to drive (largely under the influence) 15 km into the boondocks and descend upon me and my mates. Fortunately my mother had a somewhat steely reputation and by dint of intimidation, and fearsome gaze, had the surrounds vacated within about 10 minutes.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is mass boozy parties have been the norm in Kiwi culture. It's also worth remembering the weekend's events, while tragic, remain the exception and not the norm
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With you there. That tends to be my view of the ghastly excesses committed in the names of Marx and Mao.
Um yes... and getting my Polyanna mojo on, it's actually encouraging seeing some conservatives out there who aren't willing to totally surrender the field to the theo-cons. (People I don't actually consider all that conservative, given how fond they are of Mommy Statism, eroding separation of powers or State's Rights when it's inconvenient, and fiscal irresponsibility not seen since LBJ had his arms wrapped around the pork barrel.)
I'm sure I'm in the minority around here, but I'd rather not see American Conservatism surrender to the Coulters and Dobsons without a fight.
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I was told many times not to walk through Hagley Park at night.
So of course I did it. And the only people I ran into, two large trenchcoated suspicious-looking individuals, turned out to be good friends.
I use to live on Fendalton Rd a couple of years ago and would often cut across north hagley park on the way home, through the soccer fields, passed the toliets and through the golf course, by myself.
Only when I was drunk and feeling immortal of course. Wouldn't run into anyone and the only danger was tripping in the dark (especially around the golf course).
That was until one night. It was a week night and I was coming home earlier than usual. There seemed to be quite a few people around the trees along Rolleston Ave between the two bridges.
I gave them a wide berth and carried on, but one of them followed me through the park. He was about 30m away. So I walked a bit faster, getting ready to hoof it.
But after 50m or so he disappeared. It scared the crap out of me, so I never walked through there again.
A few weeks later I was reading an article in the paper and realised that I had walked through the middle of a gay cruising site. The guy I thought was going to bash me over the head, was probably just going to offer me head. lol -
I have mixed feelings about just how bad Christchurch is.
I grow up in Ashburton and moved to Christchurch to go to Uni.
When I came here, I felt that Christchurch was much more open, liberal and sophisticated. I felt safe going out and never thought about violence. Every time I went back to Ashburton, there was always someone I know getting into a fight or just getting thumped.
Nearly got thumped a few times myself, simply because someone just didn't like the look of me.
However the only time I have ever been attacked was in Christchurch, and it was by rugbyhead suburban white boys. I found out later from someone they know that they were looking to smack someone over.
In fact my experiences with violence is that it's nearly always suburban white boys or bogans.
I got dragged to a hip hop bar one night. Once I got over the oddity of being one of the only white boys in there, I noticed that the guys were friendly and more easy going than I was use too.
(the women were just as bad though. lol) -
Ah Neil, if only you were as generous to the Greens over genetic modification ...
I'm not sure that describing the attitude of conservatives to evolution as "hostile" is all that generous, but I take your point. I have a hostility towards the Greens because I would like to vote Green but see that part of the political spectrum occupied by cuckoos (in both senses of the word). Whereas since I don't vote conservative I have a more detached view of some of their silliness.
But they're not debating how their philosophy should change: quite a few of them are saying "it challenges our philosophy, therefore we should refuse to believe it."
Well, not all since you end by quoting Derbyshire saying the exact opposite -
" if that [evolution] turns out to be “bad for conservatives, then so much the worse for conservatism.”
Which is my point. Conservatives see evolution as a threat and/or challenge whereas liberals like PZ Myers see it as merely a stick to beat low hanging conservative fruit - which shows a complete lack of intellectual curiosity. Of the two views I have more sympathy with the first since I'm sure of my views on evolution and don't have to spend my days in imagined jousts with creationists and Liberals should be asking themselves exactly the same question as Derbyshire.
I'm put in mind of Stephen Colbert's observation that "reality has a known liberal bias."
Fun, but also an interesting question. Is Nature Liberal or Conservative?
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"Fun, but also an interesting question. Is Nature Liberal or Conservative?"
Good question - put it the other way around, is conservatism or liberalism natural? :)
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A few thougths:
My wife - who is Dutch - reckons the binge drinking thing is very much an Anglo-Saxon-Celtic thing. This doesn't mean other cultures don't binge drink, but that it is a lot rarer to see in Continental Europe, whereas in the UK and the old 'Dominions' - NZ, Aus, etc - it is the norm. Drinking to explicitly get obliterated appears much more common.
And yeah, been there, done that, got the vomit down the T-shirt.
As a farm boy moved to the city I don't think there's any more (or less) of a problem with this in rural areas than there is in the cities. (and I would not call Christchurch rural - the idea is bizarre).
Violence? I've had a bad 'vibe' from being out in Auckland and Christchurch, but only actually been roughed up in Wellington, funnily enough, in a totally random peice of alochol fuled aggro back in 1982.
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An aside: I recall my mum telling me when she was at varsity a guy got charged with trying to run a couple over on the sidewalk at Auckland Uni. He missed, as they jumped out of the way.
Pissed? Junkie? Gang member? Underage driver?
No, he was an old geezer who got pissed off that they were holding hands and mucking about when they should have been in class.
That was seriously his excuse. He was not even apologetic.
Sometimes people do the stupidest things, and looking for a deep reason is futile.
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liberals like PZ Myers see it as merely a stick to beat low hanging conservative fruit
That is a nasty accusation to make of PZ. The man is a teaching biology professor who has to deal with the confusion wrought by creationists (whether or not in ID drag) every day of his working life. I'd be pretty damned cranky if I were him too.
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